Yeah, they get defensive, and then talk about torque multiplication of torque converters and such.
I honestly feel bad for them.
Martin
I honestly feel bad for them.
Martin
CK5
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84 K20 "Ethel" Not an Sbc/NV4500/241C
- Thread starter sreidmx
- Start date
Semi restoration of a 1984 K20 pickup.
5.3 LS, nv4500, np241c.
4 speeds just suck to drive, it's a preference.
I'm really glad you guys like them though, more autos for me
I'm really glad you guys like them though, more autos for me
bergerking
1/2 ton status
thats true... and I won't argue that, that was my dumbass mistake.... good thing was when u say almost it is because you were so far behind... we just wanted to give u time to catch up
While we're already de railed I'll just throw this in there to stir up things a bit more. ZF manual transmissions Rock, after driving one for a couple years it made driving a friends NV4500 feel like torture, and I really hated my 465 after that.
I hear ya. Automatics just suck to drive.
Martin
Martin
I agree, they suck more when they don't work.. I drove mine out of the desert with an exploded clutch. I would have driven it home if there wasn't material stuck in the starter nose..
It sucks to drive if you are in traffic.. Otherwise it's great..
It sucks to drive if you are in traffic.. Otherwise it's great..
I continue to maintain that a SM465 is a 3.5-speed transmission, and that an NV4500 is a 4.5-speed transmission. I'd take 5 real speeds any day over 3 + granny. The gap is too big to make shifts practical anyways.
Philosophically, if you find that you aren't needing low range, and that your 1-2 split is massively large, I think you'd be happier with a more shiftable tranny (and just grabbing low range when you need to go slow).
But I'm not a rock crawler. I'm just a guy who doesn't like the wide splits of the SM465/NV4500 gear boxes. Though I would take one over a TH400 any day.
The splits are similar to that of a 700r4..
Not particularly. Dividing the gear ratios on each side of the shifts yields:
(SM465)
6.56
3.58 (1.83x split)
1.70(2.1x split)
1.00 (1.7x split)
(700R4)
2.84
1.56 (1.82x split)
1.00(1.56x split)
0.70(1.43x split)
I'll grant that the first split is comparable (and I don't like that on either transmission), but after that the difference is significant. I played with the numbers in my chart to give the two boxes a similar starting place, gearing-wise. By the time it's wound up on the highway there's a difference of over 1000RPM. (and it took some weird gear/tire combinations to get the charts lined up, there's usually no comparison between a 6.56:1 1st gear and a 2.84 1st gear).
These aren't comparable charts once you get to 3rd or 4th gear.
Looks like the graphs didn't update (
). But the tables have the relevant numbers.
). But the tables have the relevant numbers.
The 700 has a 3.06 first, reset the charts I'm curious of the splits with that corrected.
Just on quick searching I came up with this,
The low gear in the 465 is useless on anything but starting with a very heavy load or crawling, I always start in first anyway..
Compare that to the first in the 700 and the jump to second is close, they're .85 apart, so 700 is 1.87 and the 465 is 2.27 now I realize the converter does allow slip. Regardless the 700 is just as gappy and would be considered the wide ratio just like the 465, they are not however even close to strength..
The 350/400 are 1.6 splits which is close and what I'd consider good.
Figure rpm x ratio split
3600/2.26=1585
3600/1.87=1925
Now the nv4500 is pretty much identical to the 700 in terms of splits, but a 465 with a ranger overdrive smokes the, both streetwise and splitting gears, 23% overdrive gains you that 400rpm lost and puts the 465 1949rpm.. Also splits 2-3 which is horrendous for both..
The low gear in the 465 is useless on anything but starting with a very heavy load or crawling, I always start in first anyway..
Compare that to the first in the 700 and the jump to second is close, they're .85 apart, so 700 is 1.87 and the 465 is 2.27 now I realize the converter does allow slip. Regardless the 700 is just as gappy and would be considered the wide ratio just like the 465, they are not however even close to strength..
The 350/400 are 1.6 splits which is close and what I'd consider good.
Figure rpm x ratio split
3600/2.26=1585
3600/1.87=1925
Now the nv4500 is pretty much identical to the 700 in terms of splits, but a 465 with a ranger overdrive smokes the, both streetwise and splitting gears, 23% overdrive gains you that 400rpm lost and puts the 465 1949rpm.. Also splits 2-3 which is horrendous for both..
Ya know what? I've been told that before. And I've corrected that before. And I even puzzled at that number, wondering if it was off again. Looks like I'm not learning much.
I still didn't feel like relabeling the charts, but I did get the data propagated this time.
This is setting up the SM465 to be able to use all 4 of its gears. If you're skipping low gear than you're trying to compare a 3-speed to a 4-speed. You're missing an entire gear, these setups are not comparable.
There not.. Apple to tomatoes.. Onward and upward!!
More gears = more happier, IMO (generally). No 3-speeds for me.
Ranger overdrive 8 gears.. Way cooler than 3
The Ranger bolts on the back of the tranny, right? So it could be used on any round-pattern 32-spline transmission?
No. It goes between the bellhousing and the transmission.
Martin
Martin
I'll throw my .02 in... Honestly... I prefer a manual for simplicity and insurance. (Referring to a newer diesel truck here because that's where my experience comes from) You dump $1000 into a good dual disk conversion and you probably won't have any issues even with a cranked up diesel or tuned gasser. It's easily 5k for a built auto that will hold up to the same HP numbers. BUT... If you throw the cost out of the equation I'd take a built auto over a manual any day of the week. The 400 that was in my C20 shifts way faster than I could ever dream of shifting my NV4500. And also I'd rather drive an auto because I'm lazy for the most part but some days it's fun to jam gears! I absolutely LOVE driving truck and the more gears the better. The thing with a pickup is that if you are driving around town you're normally only shifting in and out of 2-3 gears whereas an OTR truck you are hitting at least twice as many. That's when it's fun. So if I was building a highway cruiser I'm fine with either. Tow rig... Probably the manual because I don't want to spend extra to avoid nuking an auto. Crawler/wheeler... Auto. <---- even though the one in building is an 5 speed. Don't judge me.
That makes more sense. Should still be able to use it with a newer GM tranny. 10 or 12 speeds FTW!
