What's new
CK5
Register an account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members.

'84 K5 6.5 with Banks Turbo will not start

T

Tom McDonald

Registered Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2017
Posts
9
Reaction score
1
Location
El Paso TX
My K5 has just recently start having a problem of not starting after I have been driving it. It acts like it is not getting any fuel, no white smoke or black. I have to let it sit for a while 2hrs or more then it will start . I have checked the vacuum lines and they look ok. I did see that the Banks vacuum chamber vacuum line was torn and change it. she started took her for a short drive came home went in for 30min came out to see if she would start and no joy. When it runs it runs fine no issues. This just started like three weeks ago. I know it is not the IP it is south of there < I will check filter but I think that it too will be ok. Any other idea's
 
Could it be the fuel shutoff solenoid craps out once it gets hot ?..or maybe it isn't getting full 12V to it..
 
So after driving for a bit it won't restart unless you let it sit for a couple hours, right? If so you're going to need a new injection pump soon. Hot start issues are a sign it's dieing a slow death. Eventually it won't start at all.
 
A worn head and rotor in the injection pump will cause hot start issues just like that. Make sure that you have good fuel flow to the IP, low flow can cause the pump to run hot causing the same symptom. Also check the fuel shut off solenoid out, but most likely you are dealing with a worn pump. Does hot cranking speed sound fast enough?
 
Yep when she turns over it is a normal cranking speed but no fuel. Tonite I will pull the shut off solenoid and check it for function both cold and then I will warm it up with a heat gun and try it that way.
 
I've read adding a quart of SAE 30 oil to a full tank of diesel helps hot starts when the IP is getting worn out--thickens the viscosity of the fuel some and "seals" the excess clearances in the pump some,so you can get a few more miles out of it...I wouldn't use the oil in winter though,it would probably cause hard cold starting ..
 
decades ago (yeah, it really has been that long) the guy who owns US Crane told me to put a quart of atf fluid in your tank about every 5 or 6 tank-fulls to protect the injection pump. While I have no idea if it helps, it may help here increase the pump's ability.... but it may be too late as well.

with that said, I always fill the spin-on style filter with ATF to help eliminate air bubbles when I change the filter. That, I know, works really really well. The motor will seem a bit sluggish for the first 30 seconds (atf burns slower then diesel) but no air bubbles... also works to help prime a new pump.
 
superbuickguy said:
decades ago (yeah, it really has been that long) the guy who owns US Crane told me to put a quart of atf fluid in your tank about every 5 or 6 tank-fulls to protect the injection pump. While I have no idea if it helps, it may help here increase the pump's ability.... but it may be too late as well.

with that said, I always fill the spin-on style filter with ATF to help eliminate air bubbles when I change the filter. That, I know, works really really well. The motor will seem a bit sluggish for the first 30 seconds (atf burns slower then diesel) but no air bubbles... also works to help prime a new pump.
Click to expand...

ATF is a bad idea in your fuel as the additives that help in a transmission are bad for injection pumps and injectors. Stick with a good fuel additive and use a little each tank or a lot every few tanks.
 
KirsL said:
ATF is a bad idea in your fuel as the additives that help in a transmission are bad for injection pumps and injectors. Stick with a good fuel additive and use a little each tank or a lot every few tanks.
Click to expand...
not saying you're wrong, but you'll have to do better then "it's bad" to convince me. What additives are you concerned about? ATF has seal-preservation and stability additives which would help keep the seals lubed since they removed the sulfur from diesel (and sulfur's job was seal lubrication).

You'll also note I limited my advice to using it to help prime a pump, the lube part - well, that was his advice and he would know about keeping diesels running.... of course, he could also be like a pigeon who gets a random reward.

I also didn't mention that putting anything red in your diesel fuel could run you afoul of the DOT folks because they require off-road-use diesel to be dyed red so that they can tell if someone is avoiding diesel, road tax.... but again, that small amount isn't guaranteed to get your a prison cell with Bubba the proctologist.
 
I will add that when I went to tech school for diesel repair they recommended atf in the fuel as well. Now mind you that has been many moons ago. I have added waste oil and waste at to diesels for over 25 years without an issue. My last CUCV was fed a steady diet of waste oil exclusively, I added the aft to "heat up" the waste oil. I'm sure there are additives of some sort in ATF that aren't good for the injector pump but I'm not sure I would worry about it.

Back to the original post. Fuel shut off and fuel pump would be my first choices for the culprit to your problem. If the IP is in good shape as you say. Quick test at the fuel pump when you are trying to crank it will reveal a little info there. It is also not unheard of for diesel fuel to vapor lock in the lines coming into the fuel pump. Next time it does that crack a fuel line at the pump and see if it's pushing fuel. If it has good fuel flow there, I would start looking closely at the shut off and then the IP itself no matter how confident you are that isn't the problem.
 
Mechanical, I have BG 244 I have used it in the past to clean the system and it does do a throw cleaning from tank to injector
 
Ok so this is what I found, The fuel cavity of the injector pump was full of fuel ie: everything is working up to the IP . I removed the Shut off solenoid and put 12v to it, the piston did not move and the solenoid started getting hot. So unless I am not seeing this right I would say the solenoid is the issue. Thoughts?
 
superbuickguy said:
not saying you're wrong, but you'll have to do better then "it's bad" to convince me. What additives are you concerned about? ATF has seal-preservation and stability additives which would help keep the seals lubed since they removed the sulfur from diesel (and sulfur's job was seal lubrication).
Click to expand...

I was taught when I was in school for engine building that atf from years past (think when these trucks were built) was OK to out some in the fuel. Modern atf has more additives to help transmissions live longer but can be harsher to injectors and such. That's how it was explained to me when I asked about it. My teacher had 40 years in the field so figured he knew what he was talking about and I left it at that.

I choose not to run it. You guys are welcome to run whatever you want in your trucks :thumb:.
 
KirsL said:
I was taught when I was in school for engine building that atf from years past (think when these trucks were built) was OK to out some in the fuel. Modern atf has more additives to help transmissions live longer but can be harsher to injectors and such. That's how it was explained to me when I asked about it. My teacher had 40 years in the field so figured he knew what he was talking about and I left it at that.

I choose not to run it. You guys are welcome to run whatever you want in your trucks :thumb:.
Click to expand...

Sooooo dextron 3 or the stuff for Ford crap is fine (heaven knows, it doesn't make Fords any better - so it's got to be useful for something)?

Something I learned about those chaps with 40 years of experience... sometimes you should really ask them why they think what they do because they're not always right. At worst you'll get called a whippersnapper (because they're were blowing smoke) and at best you may learn something (aspire to be a "punk-ass-kid" - got called that last week and I'm 50). Unfortunately, in my experience, the ratio of 'learned something' to 'blowing smoke' is 1 in 10 - thus my reluctance to simply accept something at face value.
 
Some ATF like Type F has friction additives that could prove troublesome for fuel injectors,I'm not sure if Dextron or the others used in Mopars ,etc,have any "grit" in them or not...

I use a diesel fuel treatment like Howes Lubricator or one of the many other brands like Power-Kleen,Lucas,or whatever is on sale cheap,like STP diesel fuel treatment or Johnson's brand...I feel better knowing the stuff is at least intended to be used in a diesel fuel system..
That said,I know several guys who run their diesels on ATF for fuel,I recall Greg Ducato here saying he's done it a long time with no troubles..

Though I've never heard of anyone getting pulled over and their tank "sticked" to see if they were using off road diesel or home heating oil in a pickup,I suppose it could happen,and ATF does dye the fuel red ,makes it look like off road diesel...and the fine is levied for however many gallons your tank(s) hold too,not just how much was in them,as they assume you've filled them with non-taxed fuel...

Also my '85 Suburban 6.2 refused to start last time I tried a few months ago,I had let it sit way too long--it seemed like no fuel was getting to the injectors,I could get it to fire and run for a few seconds on starting fluid and it stalled right out..

I reluctantly took off the injector pump cover--never touched one before and was paranoid I'd screw something up,and it would "run away" if I assembled it wrong--the bowl was full of fuel,but the solenoid wouldn't "click" firmly,I had to "help" it move the lever it operates...
I had another IP on a junk engine,was going to swap the solenoid off it ,but it had a different type solenoid,it might have still fit & worked,but it lacked the terminal for the fast idle and cold start advance--instead I sprayed carb cleaner on all the parts and the solenoid plunger and it started moving further and with more gusto--after that the truck fired up after cranking it a long time...
I think the lever was sticking the solenoid operated..
 
Last edited:
glad it was the simple fix

and I'll keep saying this.... I'm not suggesting using ATF as an additive for pumps, I'm suggesting using it to get air bubbles out of the line (by filling the filter with straight ATF) - the other ATF discussion is mostly esoteric. Because ATF lights off pretty easily and because it's thicker then #2 fuel - it can save your starter from the abuse changing a pump normally creates.

I haven't said my opinion on it because I'm leaning against doing it for these reasons: 1) I got 120k out of a pump where it had ATF fluid added, I got 123k miles out of a pump that had none added; 2) it's red, and given my ability to always get the "I've never seen that before" comment from specialists. I'd almost lay solid odds that not only would I get some DOT official pulling fuel from my private-truck-tank but then claiming I was burning off-highway fuel because the ATF dyed it red (yeah, I've never heard of it either, but you watch... I defy odds and never in a good way); and 3) I'm not convinced that the removal of the sulfur made much, if any, difference to longevity. Over-the-road-rigs, I suspect the opposite is true - but these things usually don't die from hard use but rather short-runs that make up the typical ownership of a car-focused diesel.
 
superbuickguy said:
Sooooo dextron 3 or the stuff for Ford crap is fine (heaven knows, it doesn't make Fords any better - so it's got to be useful for something)?

Something I learned about those chaps with 40 years of experience... sometimes you should really ask them why they think what they do because they're not always right. At worst you'll get called a whippersnapper (because they're were blowing smoke) and at best you may learn something (aspire to be a "punk-ass-kid" - got called that last week and I'm 50). Unfortunately, in my experience, the ratio of 'learned something' to 'blowing smoke' is 1 in 10 - thus my reluctance to simply accept something at face value.
Click to expand...

I honestly don't know if any is actually good or not. After my teachers comments I just decide to error on the side of caution and not use atf as an additive. Logic and experience tells me to use proper additives where they should be used. So that what I do.

As for older folks having things wrong that they thought were right, well that happens to everyone at some point in time.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest Posts

Top Bottom