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'89 R3500 Crew Cab 2wd to 4wd conversion & beyond
- Thread starter mrk5
- Start date
Started out with 2wd TBI350 with SM465 to current 4wd with 454, 700r4, NP241
Yeah, I decided that too. I was reading through some threads obsessing over some other detail and came a across a post by Stephen that struck a cord with me.
He was speaking more to spending too much money in one area, but I also read time into there too. I've decided I just need to put the axle in there and get this thing rolling.
I gotta remember it took me 12yrs to get the General where I had it and I can't expect to get there in 6 months with this truck.
Stephen said:
He was speaking more to spending too much money in one area, but I also read time into there too. I've decided I just need to put the axle in there and get this thing rolling.
I gotta remember it took me 12yrs to get the General where I had it and I can't expect to get there in 6 months with this truck.
Just had a chance to read the thread, looking good. Can't wait to see it. I agree with the just getting the axles in there. I had so much time into reading about steering arms, ackerman, where to put the tie rod hole. It does make the head spin like you said.
Plus I'm too anxious to get this truck rolling.
I worked on getting the front suspension installed this weekend.
Luckily the IFS stuff all unbolts, no rivets to worry about. There are 4 bolts that go through the side of the frame. Here you can see the top 2 bolts and there are 2 studs that hold the upper A arms on.
I went ahead and pulled the upper and lower A arms off.
You pull the nuts off the studs and the upper A arm comes off, You have to be careful because it is under pressure from the coil spring and it's heavy and it'll just fall.
The lower A arm comes off with 2 ubolts. It order to get it completely out of the truck you have to remove the steering linkage. This means unbolting the idler arm and removing the steering arm from the steering box.
Now you can see the other 2 bolts that go through the side of the frame.
And there are 3 bolts through the bottom of the frame rail on each side.
In the picture above you can also see 2 bolts that attach to the motor mount brackets. After taking all of those out on both sides, you finish taking the IFS crossmember out. All of the 2wd stuff is out.
The one thing we missed was a bracket on the passenger side. It was bolted to the crossmember holding a couple of hard lines.
Unfortunately the entire front end was caked in dirt and grime so we were sweeping up debris constantly.
Luckily the IFS stuff all unbolts, no rivets to worry about. There are 4 bolts that go through the side of the frame. Here you can see the top 2 bolts and there are 2 studs that hold the upper A arms on.
I went ahead and pulled the upper and lower A arms off.
You pull the nuts off the studs and the upper A arm comes off, You have to be careful because it is under pressure from the coil spring and it's heavy and it'll just fall.
The lower A arm comes off with 2 ubolts. It order to get it completely out of the truck you have to remove the steering linkage. This means unbolting the idler arm and removing the steering arm from the steering box.
Now you can see the other 2 bolts that go through the side of the frame.
And there are 3 bolts through the bottom of the frame rail on each side.
In the picture above you can also see 2 bolts that attach to the motor mount brackets. After taking all of those out on both sides, you finish taking the IFS crossmember out. All of the 2wd stuff is out.
The one thing we missed was a bracket on the passenger side. It was bolted to the crossmember holding a couple of hard lines.
Unfortunately the entire front end was caked in dirt and grime so we were sweeping up debris constantly.
I've decided I was pretty damn ignorant about the work involved with doing this 2wd to 4wd swap. I figured there would be some crossover between the 2 but there hasn't been anything yet.
That includes the engine crossmember. I was encouraged to see the 2wd crossmember was bolted on with 3 bolts per side just like a 4wd unit. I have an ORD crossmember a friend gave me a couple of years ago. I never went to the effort of putting it in the General so I figured it would be perfect for this. Well even tho they both use 3 bolts per side they are nowhere near the same pattern/spacing.
Not to mention the brackets for the motor mounts are no where near the same. In hindsight it may have been easier to just fabrication a crossmember from scratch but I got into the mindset I was giong to make the ORD crossmember work.
We had to trim down the 2wd motor mount brackets to fit the crossmember.
Start:
Cut it down:
And welded a piece of strap on the bottom:
It took a lot of test fitting and cutting to get to this point. Obviously the second side went faster.
I cut all of the tabs off the crossmember and welded on a strap to bolt the brackets to.
In order to bolt it to the frame I didn't want to re-drill all of the holes. I could get the rear most holes closest. The center and front holes were way off. I marked the crossmember for the center holes and re-drilled the crossmember. I welded in the existing hole that was on the crossmember. The front hole in the frame landed right on a gusset in the crossmember so I had to re-drill the fram to match the crossmember.
So in the end I had to slot the rear hole a little, re-drill the crossmember for the center hole, and re-drill the frame for the front hole.
That includes the engine crossmember. I was encouraged to see the 2wd crossmember was bolted on with 3 bolts per side just like a 4wd unit. I have an ORD crossmember a friend gave me a couple of years ago. I never went to the effort of putting it in the General so I figured it would be perfect for this. Well even tho they both use 3 bolts per side they are nowhere near the same pattern/spacing.
Not to mention the brackets for the motor mounts are no where near the same. In hindsight it may have been easier to just fabrication a crossmember from scratch but I got into the mindset I was giong to make the ORD crossmember work.
We had to trim down the 2wd motor mount brackets to fit the crossmember.
Start:
Cut it down:
And welded a piece of strap on the bottom:
It took a lot of test fitting and cutting to get to this point. Obviously the second side went faster.
I cut all of the tabs off the crossmember and welded on a strap to bolt the brackets to.
In order to bolt it to the frame I didn't want to re-drill all of the holes. I could get the rear most holes closest. The center and front holes were way off. I marked the crossmember for the center holes and re-drilled the crossmember. I welded in the existing hole that was on the crossmember. The front hole in the frame landed right on a gusset in the crossmember so I had to re-drill the fram to match the crossmember.
So in the end I had to slot the rear hole a little, re-drill the crossmember for the center hole, and re-drill the frame for the front hole.
snap-on
impact grade . i got 1 in 15/16 was for diesel motor aplication in med - heavy duty use. i got it for dodge drw trucks in the newer years .
also 21mm for ford drw trucks in 99-up with real deep dish rims on some.
there was another i seen few weeks ago hunting around for i think 3/4 inch .
UPDATE
s6224 3/4 6 point 6" deep
Last edited:
FrostBite
1/2 ton status
I ran into the exact same problem on my C20. I bought the 4WD mounts from a yard and then found out they don't bolt up.
I threw the whole mess in the corner and just started from scratch, but I didn't have an ORD crossmember on hand to work with.
I threw the whole mess in the corner and just started from scratch, but I didn't have an ORD crossmember on hand to work with.
In the end I think it may have taken less time to start from scratch, but I do really like the looks of the ORD crossmember. When he asked me if I would want it, I said "well yeah, of course".I ran into the exact same problem on my C20. I bought the 4WD mounts from a yard and then found out they don't bolt up.
Yeah I should just buy a single socket at some point.snap-on
i got 1 in 15/16 was for diesel motor aplication in med - heavy duty use. i got it for dodge drw trucks in the newer years .
also 21mm for ford drw trucks in 99-up with real deep dish rims on some.
there was another i seen few weeks ago hunting around for i think 3/4 inch .
The only thing I got done on the actual suspension was to make a template for drilling the frame shackle hanger (FUSH).
A while back I had installed the DIY4x B52 brackets to hang the front of the springs. It occurred to me with this truck not having been a 4wd I don't really have a reference as to where the front mounting point should be. I realized the sector shaft on the steering box is one thing that is the same on both the 2wd and 4wd trucks. I have a factory K30 for reference so I measured the distance from the sector shaft to the front spring hanger bolt. It's about 10.75"
The second hole from the back is the closest to this on the B52. It's technically a little further than 10.75" but this is okay because generally the front axle can stand to be moved forward a little when you start running bigger tires.
In talking with Stephen at ORD about their front springs, he said it would be best to put the FUSH the same distance from the front hanger as a factory set up would be. I figured this would be important because he's gone to a lot of trouble to design the springs to work a certain way. I certainly don't want to work counteractive to that. On the same K30, the distance between front hanger and FUSH is 47".
In order to keep it all functioning the same, I want to use the 4.5" ORD shackle.
Another thing I was concerned about was making sure everything was the same on both sides. So I made a template for drilling the FUSH hole. It has a 9/16" hole for the front hanger bolt. I made another hole that equals the full length of the main leaf and I put a bushing in that hole. This makes sure that the spring will not hit the frame on full compression. The bushing I used is a larger diameter than the spring eye so I should have about 1/4" clearance from the frame.
In the third hole I used a punch to mark the spot for the FUSH.
A while back I had installed the DIY4x B52 brackets to hang the front of the springs. It occurred to me with this truck not having been a 4wd I don't really have a reference as to where the front mounting point should be. I realized the sector shaft on the steering box is one thing that is the same on both the 2wd and 4wd trucks. I have a factory K30 for reference so I measured the distance from the sector shaft to the front spring hanger bolt. It's about 10.75"
The second hole from the back is the closest to this on the B52. It's technically a little further than 10.75" but this is okay because generally the front axle can stand to be moved forward a little when you start running bigger tires.
In talking with Stephen at ORD about their front springs, he said it would be best to put the FUSH the same distance from the front hanger as a factory set up would be. I figured this would be important because he's gone to a lot of trouble to design the springs to work a certain way. I certainly don't want to work counteractive to that. On the same K30, the distance between front hanger and FUSH is 47".
In order to keep it all functioning the same, I want to use the 4.5" ORD shackle.
Another thing I was concerned about was making sure everything was the same on both sides. So I made a template for drilling the FUSH hole. It has a 9/16" hole for the front hanger bolt. I made another hole that equals the full length of the main leaf and I put a bushing in that hole. This makes sure that the spring will not hit the frame on full compression. The bushing I used is a larger diameter than the spring eye so I should have about 1/4" clearance from the frame.
In the third hole I used a punch to mark the spot for the FUSH.
As I've mentioned several times, the PO crap I keep finding is frustrating. Today I noticed the lead from the O2 sensor in the driver side exhaust manifold isn't plugged into anything. I don't see a plug from the wiring harness it should go to either. There is an O2 sensor where the to sides Y together which happens to be on the driver side of the motor. Did they use that instead of the one in the manifold? Or should both be hooked up?
I haven't even looked to see if there's an O2 sensor on the passenger manifold and/or if it's even hooked up.
This is my first TBI truck so forgive the ignorance.
I haven't even looked to see if there's an O2 sensor on the passenger manifold and/or if it's even hooked up.
This is my first TBI truck so forgive the ignorance.
454Sub
5/8 ton status
TBIs have one, driverside in the Y pipe. Very close to the manifold. Keep in mind, it also could be your timing plug thing too. But that probably would trip a code. If you ever go with headers or anything, make sure its either close to the head, or you run a heated one. As they have to hit 700 degrees or so before the computer accepts input from them.
There ought to be one oxygen sensor on the driver's side. I think early on they were in the Y pipe and I know by '92 they were in the manifold.
Would an 89 have the hot air pipe thing on the exh manifold? Mine has one on the driver side but it's sealed off. I'm wondering if the manifold has been swapped.
Aren't those usually in the passenger side? I know on my '92 that was where it was.
My buddy's 79 has a 90 TBI and I want to say his was on the driver side. I remember he blocked his off too since it was going in a 79.
Finally got the front axle hung this weekend. I'll go into that in more detail later but I have a question I need some input on.
I guess all my measuring was off a little. I thought I could use the sector shaft on the steering box as a reference point. Doing so I thought I was going to end up with the axle about 1/2" to 3/4" forward from factory 4wd. However I'm pretty sure it must be more like 1.5". Maybe more.
I'm concerned if my steering linkage will work with this set up. Here are several pictures.
Hard left turn from both sides:
__________________________________________
'Tires' straight from both sides:
___________________________________________
Hard right turn from both sides:
___________________________________________
Tire mocked into position:
I was inspired by all of Deuling's pictures featuring beer cans. I didn't have beer handy so I thought I could feature my favorite coffee cup...
Anyway, I'm concerned if the steering will work set up like that. I figure I can lock down the draglink so that it clears, but I wonder if it will work itself out of position and start hitting the tie rod. I'm also worried about causing other problems like bump steer.
I think my other option is to redrill the spring perches to move the axle back an 1". I think I would prefer to have the axle remain forward for better approach angle as long as the steering will work.
I guess all my measuring was off a little. I thought I could use the sector shaft on the steering box as a reference point. Doing so I thought I was going to end up with the axle about 1/2" to 3/4" forward from factory 4wd. However I'm pretty sure it must be more like 1.5". Maybe more.
I'm concerned if my steering linkage will work with this set up. Here are several pictures.
Hard left turn from both sides:
__________________________________________
'Tires' straight from both sides:
___________________________________________
Hard right turn from both sides:
___________________________________________
Tire mocked into position:
I was inspired by all of Deuling's pictures featuring beer cans. I didn't have beer handy so I thought I could feature my favorite coffee cup...
Anyway, I'm concerned if the steering will work set up like that. I figure I can lock down the draglink so that it clears, but I wonder if it will work itself out of position and start hitting the tie rod. I'm also worried about causing other problems like bump steer.
I think my other option is to redrill the spring perches to move the axle back an 1". I think I would prefer to have the axle remain forward for better approach angle as long as the steering will work.
I would guess your front axle is forward at least 2". Moving the axle forward 1" typically puts the high steer tie rod really close to the tie rod end at the pitman arm, it usually clears, but only just.
As far as bump steer goes, the bends have nothing to do with it. The length of the draglink and the difference in height between the two ends set most of it.
In my opinion, you have two options: don't move the axle so far forward or move the steering box further forward on the frame.
As far as bump steer goes, the bends have nothing to do with it. The length of the draglink and the difference in height between the two ends set most of it.
In my opinion, you have two options: don't move the axle so far forward or move the steering box further forward on the frame.
mckustomfab
1/2 ton status
Nice!
Subscribed! Great work and sweet build. I'm going to steal some of your ideas, like the template for the shackle mount. I'm about to start the same swap on my 1991 R3500. I have a question, you might have said already but i didn't see it. What front shackle angle are you going for and about how long are you expecting your shackle to be? I'm kinda up in the air but i dont have the adjustability that you do, I'm using the factory front spring hangers. And last, how much drop is your pitman arm? Sorry for all the questions, thanks!
Subscribed! Great work and sweet build. I'm going to steal some of your ideas, like the template for the shackle mount. I'm about to start the same swap on my 1991 R3500. I have a question, you might have said already but i didn't see it. What front shackle angle are you going for and about how long are you expecting your shackle to be? I'm kinda up in the air but i dont have the adjustability that you do, I'm using the factory front spring hangers. And last, how much drop is your pitman arm? Sorry for all the questions, thanks!
