'90 K5 - Project Betty - LS3 Swap for a DD/Offroad/Utility Build

[y5mgisi]

Well then just to broaden your horizon a little, keep in mind, you can still do a 4" and 35s and be cruising down the road while you work on the more extravagant stuff.

Not that you would but that you could.

When i look at stuff like that, and by giving myself easier options and putting them on the plate, it let's me relax a little. Knowing that whenever I want, I can throw in the towel even temporarily to get myself back in the driver seat to remember why I even want to drive this stupid truck in the first place.

We have gone over this a few times on ck5. The fact that many projects end up dieing a slow agonizing death when the owner gets a couple years and and thousands of dollars in and still has nothing to drive. He forgets that the trucks that he had early on that made him fall in love with trucks were probably beaters with stock suspension and bald mud tires. Its something you really have to remember and abide by if you ever want to finish a truck, and more importantly, if you want to enjoy it.

Its why so many around here have starred tailoring their trucks to have better street manors. You can drive a truck that's pleasant to drive every day but can only do the easy trials than you can with a truck you drive every day that isn't all that pleasant to drive but can do the tougher trails. Because really, how often do you hit the trails? Once a month at best? But how often do you drive to work? Or home Depot? Or take the kids to school? Etc.

I'm not saying that person is you, I'm just saying it's important to do a little "soul searching" every step of the way along a project to make sure what your doing is actually what you will be happy with in the end.

 

[y5mgisi]

I would personally gave more fun in this,

Than I would in this,

 

[y5mgisi]

Anyways, I have made my point. And the point isn't that your doing it wrong, it's that you have to keep in your mind, in the hard times, that you could be doing it a different way that wold be easier but you chose not because of X reasons. It will help take the beatings cause you will remember that you signed up for a beating.

 

[ryoken]

you will find a rosebud is a MUCH better tool for overall heating... that's it's purpose, unlike a cutting torch..

 

[cliles]

Thanks for the pick me up.

Sounds like I may be stuck in a loop. I need the rosebud to heat the C but airgas guy says that a size 3, 75 cuft I believe, really isn't big enough for a rosebud tip and you cannot get a bigger bottle without getting an account which individuals cannot get. Propylene will get me where I want to go but also requires an account.

Sounds like I am going to be stuck taking it somewhere.

 

[tRustyK5]

Propane tiger torch would probably do the trick.

We used to do all our pre-heating with those. Best was a stand with a simple clamp so you could aim it and not have to hold it the whole time. We used to get fairly large weldments up to 500F or so with one of those...

 

[ryoken]

looks just like my Big Red shrinkwrap gun, basically a glorified weedburner.....

 

[tRustyK5]

Yup, heard em called weedburners before too. Whatever you want to call them, they do the trick and they're cheap and easy to use...unlike a rosebud.

 

[cliles]

Weed Burner

Bought one of these off amazon for $68 bucks, says it can do 2300 degrees and 400,000 BTU. We will see.

 

[tRustyK5]

The hard part will be not heating the tube, but that should get the "c" warm enough for your needs.

Keep an IR gun nearby so you know how hot you're getting it...or a selection of temperature crayons. The temp crayons should be able to be found at most welding supply places. I prefer to test with the crayon or IR away from where the flame has been pointed. Back side of the part...then you know you've "through heated" the part.

 

[cliles]

The hard part will be not heating the tube, but that should get the "c" warm enough for your needs.

Keep an IR gun nearby so you know how hot you're getting it...or a selection of temperature crayons. The temp crayons should be able to be found at most welding supply places. I prefer to test with the crayon or IR away from where the flame has been pointed. Back side of the part...then you know you've "through heated" the part.

Is it gay to say that elders like yourselves are K5 guardian angels?

Y'all don't come around all the time, but always manage to drop a carrot of wisdom right before the earthbound take a sledge to their truck.

Hallelujah

Side note. I. Also started working on getting a press incase this weed burner failed. I could buy a used and (for a while it at least recently kept outside ) Dake model 50H press the supposedly operates, valued at $3000 via the Internet to be purchased for $500, or a brand new HF press, praised for not sucking as bad as some HF tools for $500. I have had great success with HF when buying the top dollar tool that reviews well.

I am going to have a machine shop and no room for the blazer.

 

[tRustyK5]

Just trying to help, and have 20+ years of steel fab to draw from.

I think I'd aim for the Dake, if it's proven to work well. A press is next for me too, hoping to be swapping gear sets soon and a press would be a Godsend.

Skipping ahead a few steps, do you have a plan to index the "C"'s so there isn't misalignment as far as caster goes? Have you recorded critical dimensions beforehand? I'd want to have kingpin to kingpin dims (upper and lower), current caster at least.

 

[jekquistk5]

Just trying to help, and have 20+ years of steel fab to draw from.

I think I'd aim for the Dake, if it's proven to work well. A press is next for me too, hoping to be swapping gear sets soon and a press would be a Godsend.

Skipping ahead a few steps, do you have a plan to index the "C"'s so there isn't misalignment as far as caster goes? Have you recorded critical dimensions beforehand? I'd want to have kingpin to kingpin dims (upper and lower), current caster at least.

Yah I'm with Rene to make sure the Ackerman is correct.

 

[cliles]

To be clear, I was referring to y5mgisi and Ryoken as well. Both extremely help, and surprisingly active members. I said it before, but I do not know what people (myself being a shining example) would do without the support of a forum like this. I draw on the knowledge base extensively, and once again I lift my prayers up to you all.

I have recorded as many angles as I could. My plan was to set the pinion angle to my desired 18 degrees from vertical or 72 degrees from horizontal as measured on the pinion flange. I have notched the inner C, and was planning on calculating the required distance around the circumference necessary to get my required 14 degrees of rotation, and index there. I would repeat the process for the other C, and then, at a minimum, make sure that the angles of second C is the same as the first within a tolerance of 0.5 degrees as recommended by Kert at DIY4X.

The current caster angle is around 5.5-5.75, relative to the cast spring perch into the housing when said perch spring is level.

Prior to removal the pinion angle was 4 degrees up from vertical or 86 degrees horizontal as measured on the pinion flange, and the angle of the spring perches were 2 degrees positive, rotated back towards the rear of the vehicle or clockwise.

I have read that caster angle is recorded the way I did it (relative to the spring perch), however I have also read it is relative to level once installed. So I am not sure if I should assume my spring perches will be +2 degrees positive upon re-installation. If my spring perches are still positive (+2) and I keep the same caster angle being positive (+5.5 relative to the perch) then I get an effective caster angle of +7.5 (relative to the ground) or so once bolted on. I will note here that once I moved to radial tires there was no problem with the steering.

I was hoping that I could keep my axle approximately in the stock position when swapping to 52" leaf springs, such that my predetermined pinion angle would be within a couple degrees of perfect. Does that seem realistic

I was assuming the distance between the C's was set by a lip on the exterior. That is to say, I assumed they could only be pressed or beaten on so far. Is that incorrect?

While I got you here, how should I reweld the C's (I know I am getting ahead of myself). Once again, I have heard multiple scenarios. Here is at least two of them.
1. Just weld it, approximately 1/4 of the circumference at a time, alternating sides.
2. Preheat significantly - stitch four longer tacks at 0, 90, 180, & 270 degrees from your arbitrary starting point. Allow to cool, repeat the process shifting 45 degrees from initial, cool, repeat until fully welded then weld over the stitched weld.

 

[y5mgisi]

You should be pretty close on the angle even with the 52s. I don't think there is a lip preventing the C from being installed too far in. And caster is measured relative to the ground (level).

 

[cliles]

So should the spring perches be level (assuming the ground is level) when installed?

 

[y5mgisi]

That kinda doesn't matter. Its sort of a problem to fix after everything else is set. On the driver side spring pad, it should get cut off and re welded such that after the turn, the pad and knuckle are at the same relative angle to each other that they were before. This way, when you bolt the axle back up, the knuckle is the same amount of caster as pre turn. But the pinion is rotated up.

The passenger side is the tricky one that we talked about earlier. We are so far assuming your going to get by with just running shims above and below the spring. So the passenger pad well be rotated up the same amount as the pinion, but again, the knuckle is as it was pre turn. The pass knuckle and spring pad will no longer share the same relative angle that they did pre turn.

I feel like that came out convoluted. Does it make sense?

 

[y5mgisi]

I should add that the spring pads aren't "level" to the ground from the factory. They might look it, but they really are a few degrees off of level. So disregard trying to get the pads level with the ground. You just need them to bolt up to the spring correctly. The only thing that compairs to level (or relative to the ground) is the castor angle of the knuckles.

 

[cliles]

I understand and agree with everything you are saying, my question is exclusively about whether or not the spring perches should be level or not.

You are saying no, so I can use the relative angle between the cast perch and the knuckle to index to. If I am 5.5 degrees off now and I need to rotate the diff 14 degrees, then the new relative angle between cast perch and knuckle will become 19.5 degrees. I will then shim it 14 degrees to bring it back to 5.5. If the spring perches are positive a couple of degrees upon bolting it up then so be it.

 

[y5mgisi]

Sounds right to me!