Are those lights the rediculously bright yet rediculously expencive ones??? If soBada$$$
Yeah, the bottom one is over 10k lumens, but it's a sweet deal at only .10 cents a lumen..
CK5
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A '69 Build... "Brought to you by Don Juan Productions" Full index added to page #1
Yeah, the bottom one is over 10k lumens, but it's a sweet deal at only .10 cents a lumen..
Yeah, the bottom one is over 10k lumens, but it's a sweet deal at only .10 cents a lumen..
They are soooo cool though
79rustyk10
3/4 ton status
That thing is coming along great. Cant wait to see it in action.
Need to run a couple things through you guys. Last night I finished up the other 2x6 slider and am about ready to start the tie in to the frame.
I have a bunch of different ways running through my head and I don't know what way I like best yet. Sorry for the terrible paint work.
1) Hard mount the slider directly to the frame and use bushings from the bottom cage plates to the top of the slider. The problem I see with this is, I'm mounting the sliders pretty close to the bottom of the rocker. Hard mount would (maybe) give me a stiffer ride with little body sway. I think the slider would ultimately stop the truck from swaying due to the bottom of the body hitting the slider.
2) Soft mount the the slider with bushings. I could then tie in the cage directly to the the top of the slider with tube and plate.
Something like this
Option 2 could work but I have a couple worries about it. The first being a bumpy road slap between the slider and rocker. The second is being able to use the slider as a step also. Don't know how much of a deflection the bushings would give. I'm guessing not that much, if any, just one of my thoughts. This would give me 5 ( maybe two more if the slider needs additional support, basically four tie ins to the frame from the slider) cab/ cage bushings per side (c-pillar and 4 for the slider)
3) Run without a rocker box what so ever. This would require some kind of plate and tube to the upper firewall, to hold the thing in place without all the additional support of the box.
4) Hard mount the slider and tie the cage directly into the frame without ever touching the slider. This could work, but it would be a lot easier to tie in my A pillar plate into the slider.
One last thought, if I run all of these bushings to hopefully give me the best possible ride with still having the cage tied into the frame, when/if I get into a engine cage and want to mount my shock hoops, those will be hard mounted to the frame. So all of the bushings will be null and void the closer you get to the engine compartment. Unless I run the hoops completely separate from any other tube work that has a bushing.
Sorry for the ramble, just needed to get some of this down on paper, to see what it all looked like or sounded like.
And a couple of cool pics of the transformation with a little tube.
I have a bunch of different ways running through my head and I don't know what way I like best yet. Sorry for the terrible paint work.
1) Hard mount the slider directly to the frame and use bushings from the bottom cage plates to the top of the slider. The problem I see with this is, I'm mounting the sliders pretty close to the bottom of the rocker. Hard mount would (maybe) give me a stiffer ride with little body sway. I think the slider would ultimately stop the truck from swaying due to the bottom of the body hitting the slider.
2) Soft mount the the slider with bushings. I could then tie in the cage directly to the the top of the slider with tube and plate.
Something like this
Option 2 could work but I have a couple worries about it. The first being a bumpy road slap between the slider and rocker. The second is being able to use the slider as a step also. Don't know how much of a deflection the bushings would give. I'm guessing not that much, if any, just one of my thoughts. This would give me 5 ( maybe two more if the slider needs additional support, basically four tie ins to the frame from the slider) cab/ cage bushings per side (c-pillar and 4 for the slider)
3) Run without a rocker box what so ever. This would require some kind of plate and tube to the upper firewall, to hold the thing in place without all the additional support of the box.
4) Hard mount the slider and tie the cage directly into the frame without ever touching the slider. This could work, but it would be a lot easier to tie in my A pillar plate into the slider.
One last thought, if I run all of these bushings to hopefully give me the best possible ride with still having the cage tied into the frame, when/if I get into a engine cage and want to mount my shock hoops, those will be hard mounted to the frame. So all of the bushings will be null and void the closer you get to the engine compartment. Unless I run the hoops completely separate from any other tube work that has a bushing.
Sorry for the ramble, just needed to get some of this down on paper, to see what it all looked like or sounded like.
And a couple of cool pics of the transformation with a little tube.
I'm going to let somebody who know what they're talking about steer you in the right direction on the cage/slider debacle. That being said it's looking phenomenal! Very nice work man
I hear ya. Maybe a little over my head too.
Now that I'm looking at the soft mount again, there would be no way for it to slap the bottom of the rocker as it's tied into the body via the cage. I'm thinking the entire thing would lean all at once, maybe.
Now that I'm looking at the soft mount again, there would be no way for it to slap the bottom of the rocker as it's tied into the body via the cage. I'm thinking the entire thing would lean all at once, maybe.
yeah, it wouldn't unless you dropped it onto something really hard, at which point you have bigger stuff to worry about. That's what I was originally planning until Greg convinced me otherwise. I'll just do a regular cage for now and if I ever flop it then I'll add more and tie it to the frame and make it a wheeler. I'm anxious to see what is suggested for you though
I wrote up a nice long response, then had this same thought. lol!I hear ya. Maybe a little over my head too.
seems to me that hard mount to the frame, then bushing to the body/cage would work just fine. should act just like an outboard body mount right? but would also provide vertical mounting so the body would support the step.
anyway, thats what I was thinking, but then decided I didn't really know what I was talking about.
hopefully someone with more experience will step in to help out us noobs.
Lol, thanks brother. You could have posted that long response, I don't think that Sean or I could have busted you on it. 
As far as Tech stuff I have nothing to add.
But the tie'd to the frame, with bushings Idea seem's pretty logical to me. Yours are the first set of sliders that I have ever seen on a 1st gen and liked.
So other than that, All i got is a few , Maybe a High five if i were there and a "Looks great" since this is the Internet.
But the tie'd to the frame, with bushings Idea seem's pretty logical to me. Yours are the first set of sliders that I have ever seen on a 1st gen and liked.
So other than that, All i got is a few
, Maybe a High five if i were there and a "Looks great" since this is the Internet.
bp71k5
3/4 ton status
I'm actually seriously considering something like your #3. So far, the idea is to replace the rocker box with a structural tube that also serves as a slider. That slider then gets hard mounted to the A and B pillar cage plates. Nothing tied to the frame though, but I do have some neat ideas for it later on.
-Brian
-Brian
Care to share??
I could go with option three, but I'd have to add one of the others along with it. I really do want this cage tied in. I want to get away without all of the floor bars that are associated with the seat mounts. After a lot of thought, I'd like to just mount them like they came from the factory. Hence, tying the cage to the frame. I'll never really remove the back seat for anything. If I need to haul something, I have 5 trailers and a couple of Dmax's. I find the back seat to actually be good for camping with a couple of guys. It kinda divides the cargo area.
Also with option three, I don't think that you can get away without installing a engine cage of sorts. I could simply do a tube and plate from the front of the dash bar to the inside of the firewall (under dash). I think that would hold the firewall well enough, but I think the additional support of the engine cage (if that's what you'd call it) on the other side of the firewall, kinda sandwiching it, would help a lot.
bp71k5
3/4 ton status
I'm familiar with the option of tying the cage to the frame and keeping the stock seat mounting vs mounting the seats to the cage on the theory that it will keep the passengers intact within the cage if it breaks free from the frame in a crash. But I'm not convinced there's not a third option that involves eliminating the possibility of the body separating from the frame by reinforcing the body mounting system and then keeping the stock seating mounts. My ideas for tying it to the frame are not thought through enough yet to share, but the idea involves modifying the body mounts to be a structural part of the system rather than adding additional rubber mounts to the frame. I'm still working out the kinks though.
I have a somewhat similar opinion. If you take the front fenders off (and still had your rocker boxes), you can see how the rocker box came up into the engine compartment and was welded to the angled portion of the floor near the emergency brake bracket. My plan right now is to essentially replace the rocker box with a 2x4 rectangle tube (ala Greg72) that sticks into the engine compartment just enough to let me add some 1/4" wall plates that reach up to the body lip like the stock rocker box does. Instead of just welding it back into the body though, I can run my A pillar cage tube straight down through the dash like you have. That tube should land right about where the new 1/4" plates are. At the other end of the rectangle tube, you can do something similar except tie it into the B pillar cage plates instead. Kinda hard to explain in words, but I might be able to take some pics to help. I won't clog up your thread with that stuff though.
-Brian
I have a somewhat similar opinion. If you take the front fenders off (and still had your rocker boxes), you can see how the rocker box came up into the engine compartment and was welded to the angled portion of the floor near the emergency brake bracket. My plan right now is to essentially replace the rocker box with a 2x4 rectangle tube (ala Greg72) that sticks into the engine compartment just enough to let me add some 1/4" wall plates that reach up to the body lip like the stock rocker box does. Instead of just welding it back into the body though, I can run my A pillar cage tube straight down through the dash like you have. That tube should land right about where the new 1/4" plates are. At the other end of the rectangle tube, you can do something similar except tie it into the B pillar cage plates instead. Kinda hard to explain in words, but I might be able to take some pics to help. I won't clog up your thread with that stuff though.
-Brian
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You'll be a lot happier if you mount the cage and sliders solidly to the frame for two big reasons.
1- It's just so much easier
2- The cage and sliders will be much more effective if they are mounted solidly. not to mention if the cage tries to move around it will put more stress on the body. The soft body mounts will allow the body to move on the frame when the frame moves. Speaking of frames; the frames on the first and second gens are about as solid as a noodle so the additional rigidity of the cage and sliders helps a lot.
Here's a link to mine to maybe give a few ideas.
http://coloradok5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=222300 post 16 and 17 will show the frame mounts. My cage has been hard mounted since 2006 with zero issues, and it doesn't get used lightly. I lost count how many times I've had the whole weight of the Blazer on the nerfs.
I highly recommend running a couple of tubes through the firewall out to the front spring perch especially if you're doing anything that will flex the suspension a lot. If you don't you'll likely tear the bottom mounts out of the front fenders because the front unsupported section of frame will move so much that it wil be constantly bending the front fenders and rad support. I broke both of my front fenders before I finally got around to doing the front part of the cage. The easiest and fastest thing to do that will help with rattles and shakes is to bolt the windshield frame to the front tube of the cage through the hard top mounting holes. I don't know if you decided on mounting the seats to the cage but please take the time and at least mount the front seats and seat belts to the cage it really isn't much work and the additional strength and peace of mind will be well worth it in the end.
1- It's just so much easier
2- The cage and sliders will be much more effective if they are mounted solidly. not to mention if the cage tries to move around it will put more stress on the body. The soft body mounts will allow the body to move on the frame when the frame moves. Speaking of frames; the frames on the first and second gens are about as solid as a noodle so the additional rigidity of the cage and sliders helps a lot.
Here's a link to mine to maybe give a few ideas.
http://coloradok5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=222300 post 16 and 17 will show the frame mounts. My cage has been hard mounted since 2006 with zero issues, and it doesn't get used lightly. I lost count how many times I've had the whole weight of the Blazer on the nerfs.
I highly recommend running a couple of tubes through the firewall out to the front spring perch especially if you're doing anything that will flex the suspension a lot. If you don't you'll likely tear the bottom mounts out of the front fenders because the front unsupported section of frame will move so much that it wil be constantly bending the front fenders and rad support. I broke both of my front fenders before I finally got around to doing the front part of the cage. The easiest and fastest thing to do that will help with rattles and shakes is to bolt the windshield frame to the front tube of the cage through the hard top mounting holes. I don't know if you decided on mounting the seats to the cage but please take the time and at least mount the front seats and seat belts to the cage it really isn't much work and the additional strength and peace of mind will be well worth it in the end.
I hear ya. Maybe a little over my head too.
Now that I'm looking at the soft mount again, there would be no way for it to slap the bottom of the rocker as it's tied into the body via the cage. I'm thinking the entire thing would lean all at once, maybe.
Mike, the problem when you are making the fastest progress in your build is that you eventually run out of other people's ideas!
Seriously though, I wish I could help you with a brilliant set of photos that show exactly how to solve it, but I haven't gotten that far yet.... (duh!
). You are now leading the pack in the "through the dash A-pillar cage club" so you'll need to innovate and give the rest of us a path to follow. I'll sit down at my real computer later on today and study these latest photos and see if I can come up with something creative for you. It would be much better if I could be it he manspace working in 3D.... I am much better at coming up with ideas and seeing solutions when I'm standing in front of the truck and can study all the angles....I have a feeling you are the same way.
-G
Hey Chad,
I think the thing that scares everybody about solid mounting is the concerns over interior comfort and extra vibration being transmitted to the occupants... any feedback on that from your own personal observations?
Did you totally "lock out" the factory bodymounts with your cagework and tubing, or replace them with solid pucks? I guess once you make the commitment to solid mount the cage, etc there's not much point in leaving either a rubber or urethane mount in the mix at all....
-G
Thanks for the replies guys.
Chad, I have looked at your thread a ton of times and think that it is unbelievable. The amount of craftsmanship that you have in yours, makes me feel like I'm building a hotdog stand.
Hope that you don't mind but I took a couple of your quotes from your thread to read over here. Just helps me if they're in one place.
As for the cage I have mine tied solidly to frame while the body floats on the stock style urethane mounts. Having the cage soft mounted hampers the cages ability to strengthen the frame so you definitely need to mount it solidly. Having the body soft mounted seems to work fine even with the cage being mounted solidly. My previous cage was set up the same way, so I have almost four years of having it mounted this way with no stress related issues to speak of, except for my broken front fenders from the additional stress on the unsupported front section of frame.
When I originally mounted the cage to the frame I noticed a difference in the way the blazer handled and also the number of creeks and pops the body made went down a lot. The one thing that I didn't notice was an increase in noise and only a barely detectable amount of driveline vibration that I hadn't felt previously. As far as my results go it was a win-win situation.
I'm hoping the additional support from the front half of the cage will reduce body/frame flex even more and make it feel even more solid on rough roads and maybe even fix the broken fender issues.
...........................................
The cage is bolted to the body in 18 locations on the interior and indirectly to the rocker area in 4 more and now 2 more points from the firewall down to the frame. The firewall points do tie into the interior cage with short tubes that connect to the A pillar tubes at dash level. The 4 points in the bed (pics at post 12) bolt through the original body mounts and help spread the stress of the somewhat flimsy bed floor through to the whole structure.
Their are 4 bolts at the windshield frame, (original top mounting holes) 2 points at the back of the bed, 4 points in the bed floor (body mounts) 2 points at the front of the bed (also tied to the frame), 2 points at the A pillar tubes, 2 points at the seat tubes (tied to the frame with A pillar mounts) and 2 points on the firewall.
Also keep in mind their is a 2 inch square tube that runs through the rockers that the nerf bars bolt too and also the body to frame tubes bolt too as well. (pics on posts 16 and 17) So the body is stiffened considerably in the rocker and door pillar area which is quite important when the rocker boxes are cut out. All of this structure allow the nerf bars to easily handle all of the weight of the Blazer without any problems while keeping a stock appearance and only adding a small amount of weight.
The idea with a solid mounted cage and a rubber mounted body is to let the cage provide additional structure to not only the body but also the frame, but let the body "float" somewhat and not receive a lot of stress fighting the both the frame and the cage.
..................................
Now I want to read over it a couple hundred times to get a picture of it in my little head.
Chad, I have looked at your thread a ton of times and think that it is unbelievable. The amount of craftsmanship that you have in yours, makes me feel like I'm building a hotdog stand.
Hope that you don't mind but I took a couple of your quotes from your thread to read over here. Just helps me if they're in one place.
Nice goin' Chad!
Couple of quick questions.....
What is your 4L80E setup going to be...MVB, or standalone controller? CompuShift?
As I've been going through my own head-scratching about cagework and suspension, I'm really paying attention to how other people tie-in the cage to the frame and still deal with the flexible body mounts. Did you decide to give up on bodymounts and just go solid in those spots? I see that you're tied in to the frame (across the body mounts) at the firewall but I don't see any sort of flexible mount there to de-couple the body from the frame?
I'm really having a hard time coming up with a solution for the rear coilovers in mine. I want to build the upper mounts to the cage like I see everyone else do, but the cage and body are soft-mounted to the frame with the rubber body mounts. So as the shock compresses, it's going to want to flex the body mounts every time also....not good.
As for the cage I have mine tied solidly to frame while the body floats on the stock style urethane mounts. Having the cage soft mounted hampers the cages ability to strengthen the frame so you definitely need to mount it solidly. Having the body soft mounted seems to work fine even with the cage being mounted solidly. My previous cage was set up the same way, so I have almost four years of having it mounted this way with no stress related issues to speak of, except for my broken front fenders from the additional stress on the unsupported front section of frame.
When I originally mounted the cage to the frame I noticed a difference in the way the blazer handled and also the number of creeks and pops the body made went down a lot. The one thing that I didn't notice was an increase in noise and only a barely detectable amount of driveline vibration that I hadn't felt previously. As far as my results go it was a win-win situation.
I'm hoping the additional support from the front half of the cage will reduce body/frame flex even more and make it feel even more solid on rough roads and maybe even fix the broken fender issues.
...........................................
The cage is bolted to the body in 18 locations on the interior and indirectly to the rocker area in 4 more and now 2 more points from the firewall down to the frame. The firewall points do tie into the interior cage with short tubes that connect to the A pillar tubes at dash level. The 4 points in the bed (pics at post 12) bolt through the original body mounts and help spread the stress of the somewhat flimsy bed floor through to the whole structure.
Their are 4 bolts at the windshield frame, (original top mounting holes) 2 points at the back of the bed, 4 points in the bed floor (body mounts) 2 points at the front of the bed (also tied to the frame), 2 points at the A pillar tubes, 2 points at the seat tubes (tied to the frame with A pillar mounts) and 2 points on the firewall.
Also keep in mind their is a 2 inch square tube that runs through the rockers that the nerf bars bolt too and also the body to frame tubes bolt too as well. (pics on posts 16 and 17) So the body is stiffened considerably in the rocker and door pillar area which is quite important when the rocker boxes are cut out. All of this structure allow the nerf bars to easily handle all of the weight of the Blazer without any problems while keeping a stock appearance and only adding a small amount of weight.
The idea with a solid mounted cage and a rubber mounted body is to let the cage provide additional structure to not only the body but also the frame, but let the body "float" somewhat and not receive a lot of stress fighting the both the frame and the cage.
..................................
Now I want to read over it a couple hundred times to get a picture of it in my little head.
- Joined
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I have to start this post with I'm probably or not at all technically qualified and my skills lean me to weld it, test it, & change it. Hence my cage is still not finished. Mine is tied in to the frame in 8 spots with poly bushings and plated to the body in 6 spots just welded to the fioor. The ride is not rough but I'm assuming that is because of the shock choice? My seats are mounted to the floor via the original mounting points and the harnesses are mounted to the seat frames for the lap and crotch and to the cage for the shoulders. I figured the body and frame should not come apart and hopefully the seats won't rip out of the floor. So far the only real issue I have with the cage is the rattling behind the dash area. I am still widening the gap between the cage and the sheet metal a little at a time to get it to stop hitting. I also had a issue with the parking brake release and had to remove it (Cage was banging it and driving me crazy) and I never hooked up the parking brakes anyway. I think I am toying with welding some tabs on the top front bar and bolting it to the windshield frame to see what that does. Sorry if this wanders I kinda forgot what this post was for(A.D.D & C.R S. Syndrome)
Hey Chad,
I think the thing that scares everybody about solid mounting is the concerns over interior comfort and extra vibration being transmitted to the occupants... any feedback on that from your own personal observations?
Did you totally "lock out" the factory bodymounts with your cagework and tubing, or replace them with solid pucks? I guess once you make the commitment to solid mount the cage, etc there's not much point in leaving either a rubber or urethane mount in the mix at all....
-G
I didn't notice any increase in harshness or noise when I solid mounted the cage. I did notice a very slight increase in driveline vibration but that was just because I was looking for it. Really the whole solid mount concern is really a moot point when you consider every car and a lot of SUVs are unibody construction and don't have any isolation between body and frame and they work just fine. I was able to eliminate just about every pop and creek in the body just by locking the cage to the frame and bolting the windshield frame to the cage.
I don't think eliminating the soft body mounts would be a very good idea because the cage a lot stronger than the body and pretty much dictates where the body is going to move to when the frame flexes. In your case though Greg you could get away with hard mounting the body to the frame just because your frame will 10x more rigid than a stocker. For the rest of us who using the original frame I like the idea of having the softer urethane or rubber mounts on the body give to help prevent cracks in the sheet metal. Mine has been this way since 2006 with no issues.
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Mine is solid mounted also but left the body mounts as they were with new bushings. Someday I will continue on the cage to encompass the engine. Vibration hasn't been a problem, I do have body flex but it may be due to the cage being mounted to the body and the frame so parts of the body move and others don't.
