A modern day K5?

[ZombieBlazer]

They make fiberglass bodies for the k5.

Are they very durable? I would be concerned with having to replace them a lot. It seems like they would be a pain to repair too but maybe I am wrong on that.

Another problem I would have with fiberglass is that I have a diesel.. and it seems like the noise would be out of control with a fiberglass body. I would like a really quiet vehicle yet very powerful too if possible.

 

[blowedupmotor87]

Does anyone know what this vehicle is?

That's an FJ-55 "Ironpig" They only came as hardtops so, it has had its top chopped off.

I love 'em but, many people don't, kinda like Bullnose Commandos, you either love 'em or hate 'em!

 

[blowedupmotor87]

No way in heck I'd run a fiberglass body for a K-5! The frame flex would kill the body, and even if you fully boxed and caged the frame, you'd still have all the issues inherent to a fiberglass body-
pain to run wiring since nothing can ground to body
pain to repair since it won't dent, it'll tear
typically most fiberglass bodies take a LOT of work to get looking right, quality control and fitment issues are prevalent even on high end fenders much less whole bodies!

I'd much rather run a steel body!

Now, on to fantasy time!!!- Okay, here would be my new dream vehicle (if I could pick for this to come rolling out of GMs doors) Gimme a 77 K-5 body (for the extra rear seat footwell room) with a 73-75 grille, windshield frame and top. Fully boxed hydroformed HD thickness frame (without crush zones)

AAM front and rear axles (since GM uses them for their HD rear axle anyway, this shouldn't be difficult to swing) ala the Ram Power Wagon so that's a front 9.25, a rear 10.5 with 11.5 shafts, lockers front and rear (rear is a limited slip when not locked) and 4.56 gears (but NOT the 2014 version with the center axle disconnect, HECK no!!! Also, no electronic nanny that limits the lockers to being used in 4 low only) also, add a Dynatrac "stub-hub" manual hub conversion with Dynalocs to the front end.

6.2 liter (the one used in the Denali and Caddy SUVs), G56 six speed manual, NVG271F transfercase (fixed rear yoke), something in the way of a looooong radius armed coilsprung frontend (purists are cringing now, I know but, think of the approach angle with not having front spring hangers!) crossover steering of course, regular leafspring rearend with Bilstien shocks (GM uses them on Z71s just need longer ones with different valving for this) making it about a 3" lift over what a stock K5's height is and having very nice flex (even better then a Ram Power Wagon which is a dang slinky for being a 3/4 truck!). Throw in a manual disconnecting sway bar.

Like any of this is realistic, LOL! but, Realistically 285/70R17 tires (I'd cut the fenders and put 37" muds on it once I bought it but, for a truck coming off the assembly line, metric 33s are doing pretty good!) on some retro style 17" wheels with dog dish hubcaps.Pop a Warn 12,000lb winch between the front framerails. (same as a Ram Power Wagon has)

Put a rollcage in it (not unprecedented for an OEM, look at Wranglers and Defender 90/110s, just make it beefier than either of those examples) with 3 point belts for all passengers, a nice touchscreen nav with satellite radio stereo (this right here would be the fanciest bit of electronics in the whole vehicle since it would not have airbags, ABS, ESC, or any other abbreviations) with good (weatherproof) speakers, a tachometer gauge cluster (exactly like the original ones but the optional tach and the higher speedo version) black vinyl floor and tan vinyl seats.

Paint mine the vintage green ala Craig Artzner's and I will gladly pay the $40,000 sticker price TODAY!!! (yes, $40,000 is expensive but, it would realistically be the lowest they would make one for, the most similar example I can think of is a Ram Power Wagon, its base model with no options stickers pretty much right at $40k)

(for those wondering why I mention Ram Power Wagons so much, it's likely because I am biased (I have one) but also because they really do come with some impressive stuff for a stock vehicle)

 

[ZombieBlazer]

Thanks blowedupmotor! I agree.. I think both those vehicles are very cool.

I thought of another flat body vehicle... the volkswagen Thing... here is a really cool version I found.

 

[blowedupmotor87]

Thanks blowedupmotor! I agree.. I think both those vehicles are very cool.

I thought of another flat body vehicle... the volkswagen Thing... here is a really cool version I found.

That's a Kubelvagen (pretty much the same "Thing" (if you'll pardon the pun) though, it is the predecessor to the Thing) !Things are sweet!!! Here is a SICK one that is basically a Thing body wrapped around an LSX powered sandrail:

 

[blowedupmotor87]

If you really want the simplest possible body- get a Land Rover Defender!!! Yes, you will have to learn how to weld aluminum to do hardcore repairs but, there are only two compound curves on the entire body! (the points of the front fenders)

For something that's almost as simple, and much more common (and cheaper) in the US, what about a 66-77 Bronco? (advantage: its body is steel, disadvantage: it has many more compound curves)

Once you cut the fenders (which will probably already have been done well before you buy it) you'll be rid of most of the intricate parts of the body work.

 

[blowedupmotor87]

I just wish somebody would step up and make a niche market vintage 4x4 that didn't cost an arm and a leg!!! Even a big manufacturer could!

Example that'd be pretty easy-
Okay, I'd even go so far as to guess that MANY people on here would willingly drive a four door JK (or a 2 door long JK on a four door chassis (to make it more like a K5!)) if it was made with 3/4 axles (say those out of a Power Wagon) and had NONE of the computer systems on it other than a PCM for a 5.7L Hemi (with all the savings on ditching electrical crap, a Hemi wouldn't make it much pricier!). It'd likely lose some weight via ditching airbags, ABS, ESC, etc so, it's fuel economy would likely be about the same with Power Wagon axles and a Hemi as with the stock Dana 44s and a 3.6. Ditch the electronic sway bar, just put manual disconnects, ditch most of the wiring for the lockers, just hardwire them for lock/unlock in all ranges (not just 4 low), ditch the AC (it can go topless!), make it manual transmission only, ditch all the carpeting and creature comforts and just bedline it with vinyl seats. Make it one standard trim, no options (so production costs stay down) Skip the stock "rollcage", fender flares, the spare tire mount, and a bunch of things like that, the buyer can either buy aftermarket or make their own.

Make it like one of the "white body" V-10 powered Challengers and such (basically a kit car) but make it more complete (so it doesn't cost an arm and a leg to finish it) and make it so it can be registered street legal. (oh, and make it so you don't have to be a drag racer to buy BUT, keep the mandatory safety sign off waivers and such since they are what would make it possible!) Yes, street legal part would be difficult but, plenty of niche makers produce low volume kit cars that can be registered despite not meeting safety, emissions (though they would not be a concern, all the 5.7L 's emission systems would remain intact), and C.A.F.E. fuel economy requirements. Call it a a different model to avoid it being viewed by the feds as part of the JK lineup, like maybe the Willys? (I assume that Fiat (or whoever owns Jeep now) owns the rights to the Willys name but, anyway, you get the point, a different vintage name) Maybe even change the frontend to look more like a vintage military Jeep, befitting the Willys moniker) Could also do like the JK-8 kit does and make it a long wheelbase 2 door but, make it sans bulkhead and with a rear seat so it it not a pickup but instead a two door long wheelbase Jeep. (so it doesn't compete with JK-8 kit sales either)

Even with a 5.7L Hemi, a G56 trans, a 271 (but fixed yoke) T-case, and Power Wagon axles, the savings by virtue of ditching all the electrical garbage (other than the PCM), ditching a lot of trim (that people swap out for better stuff anyway), and making it a no options vehicle (one trim package only) it should be able to come at a price point equivalent to that of a Rubicon (if they priced it appropriately) and NO, it wouldn't likely draw much sales off of other JK models, its incomplete state (literally selling as in incomplete vehicle) and the having to sign a safety waiver would see to that.

 

[Mastiff]

When I got my JK 4-Door I said I wanted a Rubicon with half doors and no power windows or anything. They don't make them that way. You can buy the half doors aftermarket for a few thousand bucks and put them on, but there's no Rubicon option without heated mirrors, soundbars and all that stuff. There must be minimal market for that type of thing... in general people either get it stripped because they can't afford it or "loaded" because they can. ala carte upgrades seem to be a thing of the past. When I bought my TJ I got it stripped except for HD front axle and 6-cyl. No AC or BS soundbars, etc. Those were the days...

 

[blowedupmotor87]

When I got my JK 4-Door I said I wanted a Rubicon with half doors and no power windows or anything. They don't make them that way. You can buy the half doors aftermarket for a few thousand bucks and put them on, but there's no Rubicon option without heated mirrors, soundbars and all that stuff. There must be minimal market for that type of thing... in general people either get it stripped because they can't afford it or "loaded" because they can. ala carte upgrades seem to be a thing of the past. When I bought my TJ I got it stripped except for HD front axle and 6-cyl. No AC or BS soundbars, etc. Those were the days...

The no half doors on a Rubicon must be a kinda recent thing, I've seen completely stock 2011 Rubicons with half doors (the halfdoors were on the option list on the window sticker too, NOT a dealer add on) I wanna say you could get them until mid 2012 (from a knowledgeable dealer) but not after then?

I'll definitely agree with you that the days of buying a simple vehicle are pretty well gone, and SORELY missed but......

I think they priced themselves out of the market with all the electronic systems in them nowadays- even a stripped model would be so pricey nobody would buy it since a loaded one wouldn't be much more $$$. BUT, if they made a stripped model that was dang near a "white body" make it only one trim level (totally basic, all the way (say as a two door on a four door chassis with 2 full doors, that way it's the most like a K5)), only one color (white), and only one top (a full length soft top), no AC, only one radio (basic (for nowdays since it isn't touch screen nav) AM/FM/CD/XM push button one, that's standard in the base model), no ABS, ESC, fog lights, safety nanny ((like the clutch in start, or lockers being only in 4low, etc, all those eliminated), no airbags, nothing- just enough computers to make the lights work, the heater work, the radio play, and the engine run, no power items of any kind (locks, windows, mirrors, etc) not even a key fob, JUST a key), no bumpers, tire carrier, flares, etc (basically none of the things that a buyer is going to take off and replace with aftermarket parts anyway), ONLY HAVE IT BUYABLE EQUIPPED THIS ONE WAY. I really think it could be done at a cheap enough price tag that enthusiasts would flock to it enough to make it profitable. It would be the darling of EVERY 4x4 magazine and TV show around the world and would not likely draw too much from sales to "normal" consumers but would draw a LOT from anyone who wants a basic truck. Fleet sales to forestry, mining, military, etc would likely be quite high (in addition to the expected enthusiast market) especially if they reflected the switch to 3/4 axles with a raise in stated payload capacity.

 

[ZombieBlazer]

Blowedupmotor.. you sound like the man for the job of doing this! It sounds like you know your stuff... I am still trying to learn about all the mechanical aspects of off road trucks.

That sandrail Thing is awesome.

That sand rail Thing brings up something else I have been trying to find in my research... have you ever heard of a complex roll cage that has been built with no bends and no welds? Think of something just bolted or fitted together using universal type joint fittings. I know that that would reduce the strength a lot... but I am thinking you could make a good "body frame" for something like the Kubelwagon flat body.

I would like to take the body of the kubelwagon and the Land Rover Defender body and combine them.. I think the Defender body panels are riveted....

 

[ZombieBlazer]

Check it out.. it's the Icon Kubelwagon.. :P

 

[blowedupmotor87]

Blowedupmotor.. you sound like the man for the job of doing this! It sounds like you know your stuff... I am still trying to learn about all the mechanical aspects of off road trucks.

That sandrail Thing is awesome.

That sand rail Thing brings up something else I have been trying to find in my research... have you ever heard of a complex roll cage that has been built with no bends and no welds? Think of something just bolted or fitted together using universal type joint fittings. I know that that would reduce the strength a lot... but I am thinking you could make a good "body frame" for something like the Kubelwagon flat body.

I would like to take the body of the kubelwagon and the Land Rover Defender body and combine them.. I think the Defender body panels are riveted....

Gonna try again! I spent about an hour writing a long reply, hit submit and it turns out I had been logged out in the time I was typing so POOF! my post disappears, never to be found again! This probably won't be as well thought out since I'm kinda ticked off about the other one going bye-bye but, hopefully it will be of some use to you!

First off, thanks for the kind words! I wish I was smart enough (and persuasive enough) to get something like this rolling!!!

Rollcage with no bends or welds= impossible! There are going to have to be some bends and weld to make it work. Yes, you can make a completely unboltable rollcage but, you are going to run into big $$$ in tubing adapters and properly graded bolts.

A frame for a Kubelvagen would be a pretty basic undertaking (two bent rails with crossmembers between them) BUT, adapting that body to go onto the frame is going to entail a LOT of fab work. Also, all the body mounts are going to get complex. Additionally, by taking out the unit body style floorboards to put the body on a frame, you lose all body rigidity and you'll have to build a LOT of reinforcement to such an extent that you'd be better off just building a rollcage and attaching the body to it.

For the Defender chassis Kubelvagen/Thing body- it'll be a TON of fab work to make the two of them work together and you are going to have to either adapt the floorboard of the Defender into the Kubelvagen body or make a completely custom floorboard. (either way a TON of work) There are other issues too- not the least of which is modifying the Defender chassis or stretching the Kubelvagen/Thing body so that the wheelbase lines up with the fender openings.

Also, many people will not like this combo- a British military vehicle and a German military vehicle mixed together is going to ruffle lot of feathers! I think it could be a really cool project IF you used a Discovery or Range Rover donor (literally tens of thousands cheaper than a Defender since they are more common here) and a Kubelvagen/Thing with rotted floorboards. Taking a good Defender and a good Kubelvagen/Thing and combing them would be a waste of money and nice vehicles, IMHO.

A better alternative (I think) is a Series Land Rover body onto a Discovery/Range Rover frame. You combine vintage good looks and simplicity with a cushy coilsprung solid axle suspension and an all aluminum EFI V8! (still a LOT of fab work though but, a better end result, IMHO)

Another cool vehicle you may want to look at is the Bowler Tomcat! It is similar to the idea of doing a Thing body on a Defender chassis in that it is a lower profile body (lower height and thus lower center of gravity) on a Defender chassis. Most that you will see have a swoopy Dakar rally type rear bodywork (if you want to see the really rally looking ones, Google: Bowler Wildcat) and a modified Defender frontend but, I prefer ones like this that use modified Series/Defender body work the whole way 'round and run a soft top (coincidentally, this one is actually based on a Range Rover chassis, just as I mentioned above):

Oh, and that restored military spec Kubelvagen looks QUITE nice!!! It would be SICK to see what ICON would come up with for a Thing! I'm guess ing it would contain a Porsche motor, ultra long travel shafts, four wheel independent suspension and a LOT of other craziness in a dang near stock looking package!

 

[ZombieBlazer]

Thanks for the great reply... sorry you lost your post.. there is nothing worse than that..

I may not have explained what I am envisioning very well though.. when I was saying to combine the Kubelwagen and the Defender I mean in the philosophies of their body design. Taking different elements of each.. but that gets kind of confusing to explain in writing.

But I also forgot to mention that I would want to do it on the Blazer chassis - drive train.

And this is just theoretical.. I probably don't have the skills to do it all myself but I guess I like to dream.

You are probably right though.. there are probably many things I am not accounting for. The devil is in the details.

Also, one thing I am thinking is that is would be ok if the vehicle is labor intensive to make.. but the key is that it is something anyone can do. Something that you don't need huge presses to stamp out body panels.. or big metal working machines like yoders & English wheels etc...

So my thinking is to take very simple body styles and then incorporate them with aircraft manufacturing techniques - riveting. So this is my thinking with the kubelwagen body and the defender... then add in a roll bar like the sand rail.. but it would be a very light weight and not race type roll cage.. it's just for hanging the body on. Again.. labor intensive but hopefully designed in such a way anyone can do it. And if it uses very simple universal type fittings then maybe those can be manufactured very cheap.

 

[blowedupmotor87]

Thanks for the great reply... sorry you lost your post.. there is nothing worse than that..

I may not have explained what I am envisioning very well though.. when I was saying to combine the Kubelwagen and the Defender I mean in the philosophies of their body design. Taking different elements of each.. but that gets kind of confusing to explain in writing.

But I also forgot to mention that I would want to do it on the Blazer chassis - drive train.

And this is just theoretical.. I probably don't have the skills to do it all myself but I guess I like to dream.

You are probably right though.. there are probably many things I am not accounting for. The devil is in the details.

Also, one thing I am thinking is that is would be ok if the vehicle is labor intensive to make.. but the key is that it is something anyone can do. Something that you don't need huge presses to stamp out body panels.. or big metal working machines like yoders & English wheels etc...

So my thinking is to take very simple body styles and then incorporate them with aircraft manufacturing techniques - riveting. So this is my thinking with the kubelwagen body and the defender... then add in a roll bar like the sand rail.. but it would be a very light weight and not race type roll cage.. it's just for hanging the body on. Again.. labor intensive but hopefully designed in such a way anyone can do it. And if it uses very simple universal type fittings then maybe those can be manufactured very cheap.

It's WAY bigger than what you are talking about but, have you seen the Urban Gorilla body kits? Like the one that Xtreme4x4 built? Here's a pic from their webpage:

website:http://www.4x4bodies.com/index.html

The best way to go IMO for this ^ kit would be a Suburban chassis, that way the dimensions (wheelbase and all) are most similar to an actual Hummer. Yeah, it's a knockoff (of a real Hummer) but, it fits the bill for a simple new body!

As for a simple, smaller body- it really wouldn't be too hard to design something that kinda splits the difference between a Kubelvagen and a Defender, it would just be a matter of getting the dimensions right to make it look right. The only real issue I see is the front spring hangers- both of the body designs you desire to emulate have VERY short front overhangs that may result in the spring hangers being forward of the grille. So, a conversion to a coilsprung (or blinger yet a coilover sprung) link type front suspension might work out better for the sake of the desired body lines. The rear springs shackle mounts might prove awkward to but, could always make them bumper mounted ala a Formula Toy. here's a pic to give you an idea of what I am talking about:

 

[ZombieBlazer]

That hummer reproduction is very close to what I was thinking of.. I think I remember seeing those awhile ago.

My hope was to make something that anyone could do themselves using a lot of the same kind of ideas they have there... with even more basic building elements so you don't have to rely on one supplier. But I may not be able to do it much cheaper than with their kits so I don't know if it would be worth it to do it the way I imagine.

Also, regarding the body design... one of the things that really sparked me looking into this is how simple the Blazers body is. I was noticing how similar the Blazer and defender bodies were in ways...

Because of this I am wondering if you could take the flat panel design of the kubelwagen/Toyota iron pig etc and apply that to the lines of the Blazer.

Sorry if I am not explaining this well now or before.. I have lots of different ideas I am mulling over so it is probably very confusing what I am explaining. It's a fluid process I guess.

 

[blowedupmotor87]

I hope this won't sound discouraging but- I just don't know how well the straight lines and flat surfaces will do on something as big as a K5 if you are retaining the original body size, I'm afraid it might end up looking a bit like a bread truck, LOL! The Hummer avoids that plight by being about the same length as a K5 (within inches) but with a Suburban's wheelbase, taller ground clearance, and a lower overall height. This is one along that lines from the early 90's (Militoy, featured in Fourwheeler magazine, I think it got the cover shot, this is a revisiting it article):

Also, to my way of thinking- I wouldn't want to go to the bother of building a fully custom body just to end up retaining the same dimensions. I'd want something a little narrower, a little lower of roof line (for lower COG), a little shorter of overhangs, just a bit less full size truck like and a bit more buggy like, not a lot, just a little- that way it will be a better trail rig! Just my thinking though.

 

[ZombieBlazer]

You might be right... haha

In my case I might be putting a camper on it. I was hoping to make something like this.. but with a Blazer under it of course..

http://cdn.trendhunterstatic.com/thumbs/jeep-action-camper.jpeg

My dream vehicle is something I could drive cross country off road or on road.. I like that versatility.

Isn't this Defender about the same size as a Blazer?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XE29H6rGEo

Though even longer.. the engine compartment/hood-area may be a bit smaller but it looks to be about the same width and taller in the cab and bed area. I might be totally wrong though I am just going by looks here.

 

[blowedupmotor87]

You might be right... haha

In my case I might be putting a camper on it. I was hoping to make something like this.. but with a Blazer under it of course..

http://cdn.trendhunterstatic.com/thumbs/jeep-action-camper.jpeg

My dream vehicle is something I could drive cross country off road or on road.. I like that versatility.

Isn't this Defender about the same size as a Blazer?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XE29H6rGEo

Though even longer.. the engine compartment/hood-area may be a bit smaller but it looks to be about the same width and taller in the cab and bed area. I might be totally wrong though I am just going by looks here.

A camper like that would be cool! There have been several people that have put popup campers in K-5s (that would be my preference, a full popup, not a slant popup) This is azblazer's:

of course there are the original K-5 campers, the Chalets:

Really digging the wheels on the 110 in the Japanese video, I've never seen those wheels before! (also (of course) digging the sweet 110 diesel they are mounted on!) The dimensions of a Land Rover 110 (closest to a K5) are actually very similar, you are correct:
Wheelbase:
110 vs 106.5
Overall length:
181.1 vs 184.8
Width:
70.5 vs 79.6
Height:
84 vs 73.4
I never realized just how close the two are in dimensions! Only explanation I can come up with as to why the 110 looks smaller is it has a larger and more complicated greenhouse design. (windows)

Here's the one I'd love to have (VERY modified portal-axled 127 crew cab):

 

[blowedupmotor87]

If only we could get a new Defender 110 here in the US (at the UK pricing not the hugely jacked up pricing they've always had here) with the diesel engine! That is pretty well a modern K5, and you can get them with completely basic equipment if you want! So, the British make the closest thing to a modern K5, LOL!

 

[ZombieBlazer]

Yeah I wish there were a ton of them in the US so you could get old used ones and cheap parts.

But this is why I figured if we took the Blazer chassis and figured out some way to make a super simple Defender style body we would have the best of both worlds.

It would be cool to take the best from each different one if possible and then combine them. Like you said the greenhouse is different on the Defenders and I prefer it to the Blazer because it has that raised section over the rear cab/bed area. That gives the rear passengers more head room.

But to make that work I think it needs the flat side section on the greenhouse over the bed area and flat doors as well which the Blazer doesn't have.. The Blazer tapers and if it was taller it would look like a pointy top. I'd love to have the fold down front windshield from the Defender too.

About the camper.. I have very strange ideas there too.. haha I get greedy I guess.I would actually like something bigger than the Action camper I showed in the video above because I would like something I could camp anywhere in like let's say I wanted to travel all over the US or if I had to live in my vehicle. I would want something I could maybe do some stealth camping in. With the pop up tops this makes it tough. Security wise too.

Check this out... I would like it set up a little different than this but the same idea. This merged with the action camper... But if I was to get remotely close to this size I realize I'd have to do a major upgrade of the axles etc so I don't know if I can swing that.

http://turtleexpedition.com/vehicles/turtle-v/