A modern day K5?

[blowedupmotor87]

Heck yeah!!! I love the Turtle Expedition trucks!!! If you look around on their site, you'll see that they started with a Land Rover Series 109, then a 70s Chevy truck, then Fords up to the SICK Turtle V that you posted. It is a heavyweight though, you'll notice it is built on a medium duty truck (F-550) chassis. If you are getting into that class of camping rig, a Blazer chassis is simply not going to cut it as a starting point. (the axles, frame, braking system, and most of the driveline simply won't be strong enough)

I agree, merely extending the roof up on a K5 will likely not look right, though suburbans actually look kinda pimp!:
http://burbanbuild.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/1984-suburban-hightop.jpg?w=604

I think a body along the lines of the blue Bowler Tomcat I posted yesterday, put onto a Blazer chassis would look cool as heck! But, it is a smaller, more rock crawler oriented body than the Defender 110-esque camping ready (dare we say expedition rig?) body that you are contemplating.

 

[ZombieBlazer]

I have never seen a Suburban with that top on it.. It looks pretty cool! I would like to see how much space you get inside.. I will try to find something on Youtube.

What is the max weight you think a Blazer chassis would support if you were to upgrade the components as much as possible? Is there a limit to how much you could reinforce the frame?

Those Bowlers are sweet! Remember though.. you can always take the top or camper off.

What if we designed a body that had the best of both worlds? A body that could be made to fit on small trails by removing the top and different body parts? Yet when everything is on it's built for comfort and expeditions.

There'so much stuff that can be done if we get creative...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIG9P0lB1iA

 

[Greg72]

What if we designed a body that had the best of both worlds? A body that could be made to fit on small trails by removing the top and different body parts? Yet when everything is on it's built for comfort and expeditions.

There'so much stuff that can be done if we get creative...

A Blazer with removeable body panels?.... Hmmm, where have I seen that idea before?

Is there an actual budget and timeline where this project actually gets built or is this thread just for daydreaming about crazy ideas?


-G

 

[ZombieBlazer]

A Blazer with removeable body panels?.... Hmmm, where have I seen that idea before?

Am I supposed to know that? haha Or do you mean the hard top? It's that same idea but taken to the extreme...

Is there an actual budget and timeline where this project actually gets built or is this thread just for daydreaming about crazy ideas?


-G

It's really mainly just for that - daydreaming. It's something to shoot for I guess. It's like life.. you hope for the best but end up having to make do with what you end up getting.

 

[Greg72]

Am I supposed to know that? haha Or do you mean the hard top? It's that same idea but taken to the extreme...

I'm just giving you a hard time because you're new here and the idea of removeable body panels is VERY old..... so old in fact that a dinosaur named Greg72 is currently building a truck exactly like that.

Odds are very good that anything you can dream up has been done before by someone else.... so a thread that covers the same old topics isn't really all that interesting.

What IS interesting is when you finally move from the "doodling on the notebook" phase of daydreaming and drawing crazy ideas, to actually BUILDING something.

There are lots of dreamers out there....or people who think they have amazing concepts or creativity. Ultimately, it takes very little talent to write down a list of cool features for a truck. Once you start actually transforming those ideas into the physical realm you begin to realize whether the ideas are truly brilliant, dopey or completely unworkable. Craigslist is full of ill-conceived 4x4 projects like that.

A detailed build plan is a great start... but ultimately it should lead to an actual build. Start with a modest workable plan, and as you get more experience and talent take on larger and more complex projects. This site is full of members who DO things.... they build, they wheel, they break parts and then fix and upgrade them. It can be fun to plan out a build on paper, but its only a small part of a much larger (and honestly more FUN) process of actually building something you can drive and enjoy.



-G

 

[ZombieBlazer]

Someone doesn't like day dreaming.. haha :P

I wish I could dig up all the ideas like this that have been hashed over before but that is tough to do in the sea of posts here... what people need to keep in mind is that we are all in different stages of development here. You and others may have gone over similar ideas to these before...

But remember.. the Wright brothers weren't the first ones to come up with the idea of flight.. they were just the ones to figure it out first.. or best at the time. Maybe someone new will come along and figure some of these things out. Not saying that's me but I just think it's good to try to imagine what's possible.

I think that is a very important point you brought up though.. many things have been thought up before... I think that could be the solution... a lot of times we over complicate things. This is why I think looking to the old way of doing things might be the solution to people like myself who don't have the money or the elaborate fabrication techniques necessary to do things the way they are done now.

 

[Greg72]

I think it's your "we" talk that is creating confusion.....

Some of the messages you've posted made it sound like this was some sort of group effort to discover a holy grail of 4x4s. The implication being that nobody here had ever bothered to think about these topics prior to your arrival on CK5.

Ultimately, the answer to "what makes a good truck" is a lot like asking what a pretty girl looks like..... everyone has an opinion, everyone feels strongly about it, and almost nobody agrees. Consensus is nearly impossible and everyone is coming to the discussion with their own experience and biases.

Ultimately, you build what works for you at a particular moment in time. Even then, your own idea of what the "best" truck is will probably change... for many it's a moving target. That's why I call it the holy grail, a lot of guys can never achieve it because they are constantly changing the very definition of what they want in a truck.

No matter what you design or build, somebody will probably like it and certainly there will be a few people who hate it.... that much is guaranteed.


-G

 

[ZombieBlazer]

I think it's your "we" talk that is creating confusion.....

Some of the messages you've posted made it sound like this was some sort of group effort to discover a holy grail of 4x4s. The implication being that nobody here had ever bothered to think about these topics prior to your arrival on CK5

This is the second time I am saying this though - in the original post of the thread I said that people had likely gone over this many times...

And I also said I was trying to find out what others want.. that's why I say "we"... after all.. we all like K5s don't we? So we do have some consensus.. that may not be everyone's ideal but it's a starting point at least.

 

[bigred88]

Obviously we're talking K5s, not Jeeps, but if you want a new old truck, look up Wagon Masters. They take old Wagoneers and rebuild them into essentially new vehicles. I haven't looked at them in a while, so I don't know why they're going for now, but they ain't cheap.

 

[ZombieBlazer]

Thanks Bigred! Old station wagons are cool too. I want a metallic pea family truckster.... (National Lampoons Vacation reference)

It just seems to me if you spend a ton of money it kind of defeats the purpose.. and yet it seems there is no other way anymore. Or you just have to deal with breaking down constantly and/or a old rusty vehicle.

 

[Chief Brody]

100% AGREE WITH ALL OF THIS

could they legally make them now...CAFE standards and gov regulations? Doubtful...but how cool would that be to bring back the real molds and make the real thing...do a GM anniversary thing and release one muscle car and one truck per year...could do that for 25 years...

I'd hate to see the air bag for a 1974 full vert though

 

[Chief Brody]

I guarantee you that you can find a half decent Blazer of any year and drop it off at your local restoration shop and for less than $20,000 it will be almost like new...
It would be cool to have GM do them again...but that isn't likely to happen.

Why all the retro muscle cars and no retro truck???

 

[diesel4me]

GM did sort of try attempting to make a "retro" truck,I dont even know the name of it--not the HHR thing that was supposed to resemble a '41 Suburban (and dont,really!)--the other pickup thing that looks something like a chopped and lowered Studebaker pickup...not bad looking,but totally useless ,no 4wd option,no weight hauling capacity,and a very high sticker price..

They could have done a lot better just sticking with the original K5 designs and adding a modern braking system,engine,etc..

 

[ZombieBlazer]

I guarantee you that you can find a half decent Blazer of any year and drop it off at your local restoration shop and for less than $20,000 it will be almost like new...
It would be cool to have GM do them again...but that isn't likely to happen.

Why all the retro muscle cars and no retro truck???

I was watching this video on Youtube and it talked about how the first Jeep was made... The government put a challenge in place for companies to develop the type of vehicle they needed in 45 days. The company that did it only had 15 employees and scavenged parts from everywhere.

I just feel like we have been bamboozled. If these guys could do that 70 years ago... imagine what they could do today with the technology materials and tools we have now. For $20,000 they could make a space shuttle. haha

The other side of this is - how much do we really need? We have all been convinced we need some kind of super vehicles... a show truck with a drag racing engine in it. lol

To me I would rather have something cheap that gets me and the equipment I need where I need to go. Something that I can fix anything on without having to spend my whole life learning 10 different trades and leaving little time for anything else...

Sorry to rant... but the whole thing just seems crazy to me. Especially when I watch a video like this about how the Jeep was developed.

They made the Jeep to compete with the Kubelwagen.. the German version of a mechanical horse. Kubelwagen means bucket car. It was an even cheaper version of the Volkswagen beetle made for military - off road - use.

To me, it all stems from the "keeping up with the jones's" mentality... that is how we have been convinced we need so much stuff we don't. An extension of the rat race...

 

[TerryD]

They had a very limited amount of requirements that do not include today's emissions and safety requirements that a more modern company would face before being able to pursue mass production.

Note if you went hybrid or full electric, the government would pay you to build it.

 

[ZombieBlazer]

They had a very limited amount of requirements that do not include today's emissions and safety requirements that a more modern company would face before being able to pursue mass production.

Note if you went hybrid or full electric, the government would pay you to build it.

Yeah I know what you mean.. but those rules don't apply to do it yourselfers.

This is why I think if people with the knowledge to figure this kind of stuff out pooled their brain power it would be possible to develop something like this that people could build themselves.

I think if we ever want to see everyone have access to the kind of vehicles we want this is what needs to be done. Otherwise most people who don't have the money are screwed.... as long as companies are in the business of making money we are never going to see this stuff made affordable. And certainly not affordable to repair and be durable. Everything is high priced and disposable. That's how they stay in business.

 

[Greg72]

This topic has certainly come full-circle....


Yes, it is absolutely true that no manufacturer will build a stripped-down truck for the masses. There is no market for it, and there would be significant costs involved to set up a production line to "leave off" parts. As counter-intuitive as it sounds, not installing parts costs money too. You start removing computers, sensors and other integrated systems from the standard truck, and suddenly you are redesigning other parts to work with a more limited set of sensors or capabilities.....

EPA / NHTSA / DOT regulations would surely not allow for any kind of "reissue" of an old truck design..... we might as well forget about that option too.


So.... we are left with the option to build ourselves what no other company would (or could) build on our behalf. That's good (IMHO).... we just cut out the middle-man and saved ourselves a bunch of unnecessary markup!

You want a simple, reliable and easy to service truck? Start with a pre-1973 Blazer or pickup......

No smog pumps, cats, or other power robbing nonsense
Pushrod, carbureted V8... just about as simple as it gets
Solid axles (F&R) and leafsprings... that's worked reliably for around 100 years now.
Manual locking front hubs
Cast Iron transfercase (probably NP205 in most cases). Strong like bull and simple.
No A/C
No OnStar
No GPS or MP3 players
No pushbutton transfercases
No heated seats / massage seats
No backup cameras, blindspot detection
No cupholders
No fiberoptic CAN-BUS nonsense, just a dozen or so wires under the dash to run the whole truck.


You find a truck like that, and you're most of the way to your "dream truck"..... simple design, easy to work on, and lots of good parts availability. Obviously, on a 40+ year old truck you will need to go through systematically and replace worn components (or pay someone to do it for you).

Over time as the "romantic notion" of driving a simple truck gives way to a desire for something a bit more comfortable and refined, you could certainly swap in some delicious Deaver leafs and a premium set of tunable shocks.... a pretty easy DIY project for most guys here too.

When the reality of driving a truck with a stumbling, coughing carb gets tiring... you can do one of the new standalone EFI conversion kits and add a touch of smoothness and increased driveability.


Your "simple" truck is out there waiting for you already. All you need to do is go find it and get started.


-G

 

[ZombieBlazer]

Your "simple" truck is out there waiting for you already. All you need to do is go find it and get started.


-G

That's true Greg.. but how many people can really go out and completely design and build their own vehicle?

Sure if you devote your whole life to being a mechanic and auto engineer... or if you come from a family of mechanics etc.

And this way each person has to reinvent the wheel. What I am saying is that if people pooled together who have the same interest we could make the whole thing a lot easier for others and make a better vehicle for each of us and cheaper.

But this gets back to the main problem as I see it... I think people have been bamboozled into thinking they need much more than the basics... to me they are looking to build the "unattainable holy grail" of trucks...

But I wonder if anyone else sees it the same way or if it's just me. Most people might not be into the idea of a Blazer mixed with the Bantam Jeep mixed with a land rover defender with a diesel engine that they will drive cross country on or off road like snail. That sounds like fun to me though..


There is another aspect of this too... I think because this hobby of off roading is viewed as such an expensive hobby or because it is so technically challenging many people don't want to get into it because they can't afford it. So you have a vicious cycle here.. the less mainstream and custom the hobby is the more expensive it gets for the people who do it. IF the community were to go the opposite direction more people would be into it and it would then get cheaper...

 

[Mastiff]

I think he's saying to go get an old truck, don't change much except maybe going from carb to EFI, and your done.

Funny, I thought that's what I was doing... it seems simple and cheap to talk about, but there are complications with everything. I'll probably have $6-7K just doing the one ton conversion and new springs once it's all done (counting new wheels and tires). God knows how much the EFI conversion cost if I added it all up.

 

[ZombieBlazer]

I think he's saying to go get an old truck, don't change much except maybe going from carb to EFI, and your done.

Funny, I thought that's what I was doing... it seems simple and cheap to talk about, but there are complications with everything. I'll probably have $6-7K just doing the one ton conversion and new springs once it's all done (counting new wheels and tires). God knows how much the EFI conversion cost if I added it all up.

Yes, my point is just that I think there needs to be a collective group doing the same thing to work right. Some way of people all working together so that it isn't so difficult for each person AND the final product would be much better and , cheaper and easier to build.

That's what I was getting at above.. I just think if we could pool people together who are into the same concept we could do better than just making an old truck....

But orchestrating it is easier said than done... to me though it's like one of those things that when it happens everyone will say "why didn't we do that before?"...

I'm just saying it now.. haha