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After the roll rebuild. (NOT HAPPENING)

colbystephens said:
I've done a body swap - it wasn't too terrible. the difficult part is figuring out how to lift the new body up high enough to get it onto a frame that's sprung with no weight on it! i ended up hanging mine from a cherry picker and a rafter-hung geared engine hoist. i attached at the cage - which may not help you. just TAKE YOUR TIME. those blazer bodies aren't light, and they'll hurt/kill if they fall on you.

I read up about how many people it takes to lift a blazer body - lot of people said 5 big guys would do. Guess I don't know the definition of big because we had 5 guys and we were lifting a topless, full convertible blazer body with no glass and no tailgate and we could hardly get the damn thing off of the trailer. let alone lifted high enough to get it onto a new frame!

additionally - i am surprised to read that you feel you have too much gearing for the snow. i've never experienced that, and everyone i see always wants more gearing. the guys that go the farthest in the snow around here have dual tcases and are engaged in SUPER low so that they simply crawl ontop of the snow instead of spinning tires. the way i see it, the slower you start, the less likely you are to end up spinning the tires and losing traction. the best snow rig i've ever seen had gearing so low that you could see the individual teeth of the gears engage by looking at how the tire was moving. :crazy:

what's been your experience with that? can you elaborate/explain?
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We were planning on 5 or 6 people to help swap it out. I may bring them to a friends shop that has a hoist to make it easier.

Snow wheeling and my gearing.

I run a 700R4 w/3.06 1st gear and a 241 with 2.71 Low, 4.10 gears with 36" tires.

In 4 high in deep snow with the tires aired down I can't get the truck to move once stopped in the snow. In 4 low no matter how hard I try not to spin the tires just break loose. Like the motor has too much torque or too much gear. Unless I'm way off and confused ,, If I regear to say 4.88's it will help with 4 high but make 4 low even lower and easier to spin:dunno:

I used this calc. http://www.grimmjeeper.com/gears.html

4.10 gears puts my crawl speed at 208 Feet per minute
4.88 puts it at 175.
 
I rolled my '95 Silverado and just bought a '75 Jimmy and swapped out everything I could like the rims and tires and sold what was left from the '95. Now I have a better toy that I don't have to smog.
 
That's where the manual tranny comes in handy. I've seen a buddy struggle in loose off camber gravelly rock trying to get around a huge boulder. His rig has an automatic, and by the time he could give it enough throttle to get it to move the tires would spin. He ended up not being able to get past that boulder.

I crept up to the same obstacle in first gear, low range and idled around it...no TC to mess me up when the traction I had was precarious. Other than tranny, our trucks were set up very similarly.

You might look into a lower stall speed convertor, you'll have more fine control...but with enough gearing it can push through your brakes at or just above idle.

Rene
 
tRustyK5 said:
That's where the manual tranny comes in handy. I've seen a buddy struggle in loose off camber gravelly rock trying to get around a huge boulder. His rig has an automatic, and by the time he could give it enough throttle to get it to move the tires would spin. He ended up not being able to get past that boulder.

I crept up to the same obstacle in first gear, low range and idled around it...no TC to mess me up when the traction I had was precarious. Other than tranny, our trucks were set up very similarly.

You might look into a lower stall speed convertor, you'll have more fine control...but with enough gearing it can push through your brakes at or just above idle.

Rene
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I concur - thats part of why I decided to go with a 465. Plus I just love manuals. But yah, the fine control you get with a clutch beats a torque converter any day.
 
tRustyK5 said:
That's where the manual tranny comes in handy. I've seen a buddy struggle in loose off camber gravelly rock trying to get around a huge boulder. His rig has an automatic, and by the time he could give it enough throttle to get it to move the tires would spin. He ended up not being able to get past that boulder.

I crept up to the same obstacle in first gear, low range and idled around it...no TC to mess me up when the traction I had was precarious. Other than tranny, our trucks were set up very similarly.

You might look into a lower stall speed convertor, you'll have more fine control...but with enough gearing it can push through your brakes at or just above idle.

Rene
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i've never seen anyone actually say what you just stated, but i've often wondered if that was an issue. i always figured it would be, but don't have any experience wheeling an auto-trans. however, it seems plausible to me that by lowering the gearing you will be helped tons - even with an automatic. seems like lowering the gearing will allow you to get those wheels turning without having to use as much throttle to get started. :confused:

i was talking with some folks about the difference, and it would seem to me that with an auto trans you might have to really get into the skinny pedal to get up and over an obstacle and then be in trouble because you've got too much throttle which would slam you into the next obstacle. that's all imagined. i love putting it in granny low and feathering the clutch for the finesse.

jms said:
Not that I ever want to 'wheel in snow, just out of curiosity: what about driving the auto with the left foot on the brake? As in bringing the rpm up to the point where the motor makes enough torque to be able to move the vehicle, and then controlling vehicle/tire speed with the brake?
Click to expand...

or perhaps partially depress the parking brake?
 
jms said:
Not that I ever want to 'wheel in snow, just out of curiosity: what about driving the auto with the left foot on the brake? As in bringing the rpm up to the point where the motor makes enough torque to be able to move the vehicle, and then controlling vehicle/tire speed with the brake?
Click to expand...

That's how most of the guys I wheel with who have autos do it, and how I did it before I swapped, but the problem is 2-fold
1) When you get the "rpm up to the point..." you actually cause more wheel speed than you would if you were idling and feathering the clutch
2) When you control the rpms with the brake, you still have pressure on the brake pads, inhibiting the wheels from moving. With a manual, you can put the slightest amount of torque to unimpaired wheels by feathering the clutch.

The guys with automatics who have doublers tend to do better in the snow than those without the ultra-deep gearing. It's not so much a torque problem as an Engine RPM to Wheel RPM problem that causes the digging Dennis is talking about.

Another thing that really benefits manuals in the snow is the ability to "rock" yourself out of a rut without spinning your tires and digging.
 
jms said:
Not that I ever want to 'wheel in snow, just out of curiosity: what about driving the auto with the left foot on the brake? As in bringing the rpm up to the point where the motor makes enough torque to be able to move the vehicle, and then controlling vehicle/tire speed with the brake?
Click to expand...

The other issue with doing that is as you raise the engine's rpm you're also increasing the amount of torque, making it difficult to not have wheelspin as you release the brake. Even when trying to start from a standstill on a snowy hill a manual rig you can shut it off in gear, let the clutch out and restart it which greatly diminishes wheelspin issues. This is definitely where you want extra deep gearing.

Rene
 
RGV72BLAZER said:
COUGH COUGH...dana 60...COUGH COUGH :D
Click to expand...

I have a 60 for my 72 project. The 10b will be fine for what I use it for. Putting in a 60 will not help with the problems I want to solve during this rebuild. I wheeled my 10b for over 12 years without even changing the ujoints. Now that I locked it I may break it but I will only engage locker to get unstuck or light throttle and mild turning.

All,

Although I toyed with the idea of a manual. I will be keeping the automatic.
 
After some long thinking we have decided not to rebuild the Blaze.

I have had a 72 project on the back burner for some time and decided there where too many things I wanted different.

The 72 will be started this weekend under a different thread!!!

Here's the plan for the 72..

Full cage with suspension seats.
500 Caddy with either TPI or MPFI
14 B rear Eaton E-locker
10 B front with Eaton Elocker (Unless I sell it with the rolled blaze) I have a 60 already, but not locked. Too much money in the 30 spline 10 bolt...
4.10 gears (cause it's what I have now)
Turbo 400
Either the 205 or the Blaze's 241 with a sye.
Keep the 36" IROKs, Dump the 37" Creepy Crawlers
Paint it Kawasaki green for the wife!!!!

See my items for sale in the sale section... Including a nice 1990 Jimmy.
 
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Dennis,

Here are some calcs to help you along on your new build (the '72K5)... I wanted to make sure that this data ends up in a searchable forum so that others can benefit from this effort too... :wink1:

Take a look at the following data. I'll make a few observations, then we can pick up the discussion in your new build thread when you create it.

90k5blaze_Gearing.jpg



Going from a 700R4/241 setup to a TH400/Atlas4 (or STaK) box may end up being a good solution for your snow wheeling, but may work against you a bit on the sand drags.... this is more a function of the TH400 selection than the Atlas, because you're losing the deeper 1st gear ratio (3.06 vs. 2.48) and you also lose the ability to run in OD to pick up more MPH at the big end of the track.

Although you don't run many highway miles, the TH400 will punish you more in fuel consumption and engine RPM as well (obviously) without the OD.

Take a look at the data, and start your new thread. Once you do, we can post this chart over there too and get into the numbers more deeply.... :deal:


:usaflag:
 
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