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alternative to wheel spacers??

K

K5dreamer

1/2 ton status
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Hey all, i just picked up my H1 beadlock rims yesterday, and haev been addressing the problem of backspacing in my head since. I will obviously need to upgrade my axles from the current 6 lug, 1/2 / 3/4 ton 10 bolt axles, so i was thinking. With the increased offset of the H1 rims most people choose to run spacers to get the rims to fit right, and swear by them, running thousands of miles, and many years without issue. But many say that spacers arent safe and reference the dreaded "rear wheel passing you at highway speeds", and accelerated balljoint/king pin wear as a reason to avoid them.

So heres what im looking at, from what i know, the 14b FF axle from the G van series was wider than those used in the trucks, by how much im not sure, and from what ive read, the D60 from a dually is wider than that of a standard 4x4, because of the hubs i believe.

So im basically looking to check my fuzzy recolection with the experts here. Do yall think if i run a Dually D60, and a G van 14b FF, i can avoid running spacers with my 1986 M1009 Blazer and H1 beadlocks???
 
The common alternative is a dually front. The rear is a little more difficult. If you start with a dana 70hd and use srw 14 bolt hubs the it gets you close. With these setups no spacers are needed.

You could always recenter the H1's.:D
 
yeah, i thought about recentering, but seeing as i need to buy axles anyway, i might as well get the wider ones to start with, and then forgo the added expense of recentering the rims. As im also sure wherever i got them recentered i would have to ship them, and id rather avoid that nasty cost.

as to the rear axle situation, a Dana 70??? need to research that one, and what are "srw" 14 bolt hubs?? is the Dana 70 a dually setup, but the "srw" means "single rear wheel" as in non-dually rear hubs? just making sure i understand the post.
 
Yes "srw" is single rear wheel. Dana 70hd is a dually. However the hub dimensions are the same as a 14bolt. When you put the 14 srw hub on the 70 it makes a WIDE rear.
 
K5dreamer said:
as to the rear axle situation, a Dana 70??? need to research that one, and what are "srw" 14 bolt hubs?? is the Dana 70 a dually setup, but the "srw" means "single rear wheel" as in non-dually rear hubs? just making sure i understand the post.
Click to expand...

Yup. The dually pickups for 73-87 used a D70HD rear instead of a 14BFF. (Note that the cab-n-chassis trucks, those sold without a bed, came with a really narrow dually 14BFF, which you do not want.)

Yep, SRW is single rear wheel and DRW is dually.

IIRC, 14BFF and D70 hubs interchange.

The DRW versions actually put the wheel 2" farther IN than the SRW, so by putting the SRW hubs onto a D70 you'd end up with a WMS 4" wider than stock.

Hope that makes sense ;)

-- A
 
you need a real dually truck rear axle from a truck that had the box with outside fender flar's . this will be a dana 70hd axle. then go to the pick and pull yards or other places and get a set of 14ff single rear wheel " srw " hubs. then a little work and its now basicly the widest it can get with out spacers.

or if you can find a full 1ton van with 14ff srw " full floater axle " grab it. this will be all factory and super close to the needs of no spacer.

h1 rims have 7" back space. and we needs around 4" - 4.5" backspace.

if you do drw " dually rear wheel " hubs in the front dana 60 its + 4" for the rim flange out board. this is like removing 4" from the rims down to a good allaround 3" backspace.
 
yup, crystal clear now. thanks for the clarification all. now, the next question would be, there were DRW 14b rears right??? so why not get one of those and put the SRW hubs on it? arent the 14b rears way less expensive than the Dana70's??? I dunno if i need the monsterous capabilties of the Dana 70. Honestly im only going up to the 1 ton axles for the bolt pattern, and because i dont trust the 10b axles with 37in tires. The truck is really more of a trail rig/mudder, than a rock crawler, and only has the stock 6.2L in it, hardley a power house. i dont tow anything that dosnt fit in the back of the truck. (except when my friends move, and then maybe a uhaul trailer on the back).

Or is the D70 housing in general from hub mount to hub mount wider than the 14b from hub mount to hub mount???
 
sweetk30 said:
or if you can find a full 1ton van with 14ff srw " full floater axle " grab it. this will be all factory and super close to the needs of no spacer.
Click to expand...

OK thats what i was talking about with the G-van, just wanted to double check my memory on that one. So, dually D60 up front, and 1 ton G-van FF 14b in the rear.... so the search begins........ once there is money in the bank ;)
 
edited : you got it.

if you dont want the super expence or hard to find of a dana 70hd then like i said get a 14ff srw from a 1ton van. widest of factory 14ff out there. then new perches and shock mounts needed.
 
K5dreamer said:
yup, crystal clear now. thanks for the clarification all. now, the next question would be, there were DRW 14b rears right??? so why not get one of those and put the SRW hubs on it? arent the 14b rears way less expensive than the Dana70's??? I dunno if i need the monsterous capabilties of the Dana 70. Honestly im only going up to the 1 ton axles for the bolt pattern, and because i dont trust the 10b axles with 37in tires. The truck is really more of a trail rig/mudder, than a rock crawler, and only has the stock 6.2L in it, hardley a power house. i dont tow anything that dosnt fit in the back of the truck. (except when my friends move, and then maybe a uhaul trailer on the back).

Or is the D70 housing in general from hub mount to hub mount wider than the 14b from hub mount to hub mount???
Click to expand...

For 73-87, the only dually 14BFF is actually the same axle width as the SRW, the only difference being the hubs so the WMS is 4" less.

There was a wide dually 14BFF for the IFS trucks ('88+) which may have shown up in a few mid-80's trucks, but they're rare.

I donno that a D70 is that much stronger than a 14BFF, and while maybe harder to find, shouldn't be stupidly expensive. (Dana 60 rears, for instance, are WAY more common than fronts and therefore cheaper, so don't go thinking that a D70 rear should be that kind of money.)

-- A
 
Iirc, there is a wide dually version 14 bolt that was used in 88-90ish new body style pick ups. I believe it's the same width as a D70HD.
 
What size tire do you plan to run? Did I miss that part lol? I was running a DRW D60 and a van width 14FF with H1s until I went to 42s. When the rear flexed the tire would hit and rub the inner rear fender wells. I added spacers to the rear only because they were basiclly free. I was going to mini tub the rear or just live with it for the moment.

IMG_0742.jpg

Thats without the spacers just to give you an idea!:D
 
blazd88 said:
What size tire do you plan to run? Did I miss that part lol? I was running a DRW D60 and a van width 14FF with H1s until I went to 42s. When the rear flexed the tire would hit and rub the inner rear fender wells. I added spacers to the rear only because they were basiclly free. I was going to mini tub the rear or just live with it for the moment.

IMG_0742.jpg

Thats without the spacers just to give you an idea!:D
Click to expand...

im not going too crazy, the end plan will be the 4in lift, 1 ton axles, H1 rims, and 37x12.50-16.5 tires. most likely the goodyear MT OZ's. I may wind up doing some minor fender trimming, but i dont do rocks, no where really around here for it. The most "extreme" conditions the truck is likely to encounter for the forseeable future would be GWNF in harrisonburg Va. mostly rutted trails, light rocks, and mud. So Im not too concerned with flexing. Really i just wanted the beefier axles, the H1 beadlocks, lift and bigger tires for fording depth. Also i want to be able to mount (if not balance) my own tires, hence the beadlock rims.
 
nvrenuf said:
Iirc, there is a wide dually version 14 bolt that was used in 88-90ish new body style pick ups. I believe it's the same width as a D70HD.
Click to expand...

hmmm... when did the 4l80e first start getting used???? im suddenly having dreams of finding a wrecked or beater 1 ton dually with the 4l80e, and swapping the drivetrains..... then sell the beater as a runner.... and getting my 1 ton running gear for free.......... if only the universe were so kind ;)

although im quite sure i would need custom driveshafts and possibly adaptors to make it happen.

I would of course source a regular bed, and sell the beater truck as a 1/2 ton at that point. no false advertizing here.
 
The 4l80e was first used in 91 for the square body trucks but I don't know when it was introduced for the new body style.
 
oh one other thing, the DRW D60 front axle, are the spring perches and shock mounts in the right place on that? assuming it comes from a chevy? I see it was stated the 1 ton Gvan 14bff needs those things moved. Im pretty sure i know a bodyshop that can handle that. Should i just measure the distances on the 10 bolt axles and have those mimiced on the 14bff by the shop?
 
only diffrence is drw or srw hub/rotors all other is the same. you can swap 1 for the other.

i run a factory drw converted to swr. its easy as pie.
 
now this is frustrating........ if only i wasnt living paycheck to paycheck right now. id buy it just for the axles, and swap mine into it, and resell it for close to what i paid just as a 1/2 ton. get a D60/D70 combo for free. even though i dont need the D70 it sure isnt something id pass on if it didnt cost anything ;)

why do i look these things up??? apparently im a masochist.
 
if the truck is 88-up body style it wont have solid front axle.

only the 73-87-91 blazer/suburban/crewcab will be solid axle.

and 91 was only year factory 4l80-e equiped and would be 205 tcase.
 
A D70 isn't really any stronger or better than a 14FF, so get rid of the idea that a D70 is some upgrade in strength over a 14FF because it is not.

From my understanding a van-width 14FF is only a total of 3" wider (1.5" on each side) than a standard truck SRW 14FF. Now a standard SRW truck 14FF is already 3" narrower than a SRW front D60, so going to a van rear axle only makes it equal in width to a SRW front. A DRW front D60 is probably 7-8" wider than the SRW version.........so even a van rear axle will be quite a bit narrower than a DRW front.
 
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