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An Ungrounded Engine Block, What are the Symptoms?

J

jimmyjack

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Tucson Az
The other day my distributor failed on my 87 K5. 350 TBI. I replaced the coil and the dizzy. Now my engine stumbles and dies sporadically at idle . It runs like a champ otherwise.

Here's the weird part. When my engine is running the stereo ( hooked to the battery) loses the volume really quickly. It doesn't lose power, the volume sounds like a skipping record. When the motor is off it sounds normal.

I was sitting in my driveway and I unlocked my door, the idle picked up about 200 RPMS. I rolled my window up and the engine stalled.


But only since I replaced the coil and dizzy. I'm going to make a temp engine ground tomorrow and see if that does anything….

Anyone have any ideas????
 
Don't have time right now, but there are symptoms and eventual bad "consequences" to an ungrounded block.

Will get into more detail when i get home from work tonight, unless someone else describes it beforehand.
 
It's sitting in the driveway with the battery disconnected for now. I'll snoop around a bit and try to find anything obvious. I look forward to hearing back from you.
 
In my experience, a bad engine ground usually results in flaky operation of the electrical system. Radio and light issues are most common, charging systems issues, and seemingly unconnected systems impact each other because the electricity is trying to jump that last barrier to get home. Sometimes it can cause damage of systems that are electrically sensitive, depending on application if the electricity makes its way somewhere it shouldn't. On my Blazer, the PO had replaced the engine and not grounded it. I never experienced any issues, but putting a fresh ground on was a priority.

To test, just get a voltmeter and measure the battery voltage at the terminals. Then keep the positive lead on the positive terminal, and touch the negative lead to an unpainted part of the engine block. Variance of more than about a tenth of a volt indicates a poor ground.
 
How would the truck start without the engine grounded?

Why I like the alternator bracket as the ground connection to the battery.

Ground strap from back of head to the body might be another issue though.
 
To verify just take your jumper cables and attach one to a bracket on the engine and then to the frame. Then use the other to go from frame to battery negative. This creates a temporary but effective grounding system for testing.

If that solves your problems then get a short section of big wire and ground the engine to the frame and the frame to the battery.
 
The battery is grounded to the alternator and to the body with the NEG battery cable.

I don't know if the engine is grounded to the body with a ground strap.

Why else would it act the way it is? A new coil and distributor wouldn't do that. At least I don't think they would. It hasn't happened in the year I've owned it. It began the day after I replaced these parts.
 
Mini wally, I'll try that. I wasn't thinking THAT temporary…..

Paratrooper I'm going to pull the Alternator and have it tested as well.

I removed the positive cable when I swapped the distributor, so maybe a bad connection there. I dunno…..
 
Soooooooo. I did all the above. Got pissed off and removed the new coil and put the old one back in. No issues.

Haven't driven it yet but the windows rolling up and down don't kill the motor, the door locks don't make the RPM's jump and the radio isn't acting funny.

Going to see if I can get my money back from Pep Boys on this coil….. Wish me luck.

Thanks for all the help. I appreciate it. Working under the hood in Tucson in July sucks!
 
Might be difficult to get your money back on an electrical part. Most places won't take them back if they know it has been on the vehicle. I have in the past just told them at the parts counter that I have no installed the component, found the problem out before I change the part out. The local parts guys believe me but I don't do that trick to often. But in all reality if I put the new part on and it doesn't fix the problem I pull it back off immediately anyways.
 
jimmyjack said:
Soooooooo. I did all the above. Got pissed off and removed the new coil and put the old one back in. No issues.

Haven't driven it yet but the windows rolling up and down don't kill the motor, the door locks don't make the RPM's jump and the radio isn't acting funny.

Going to see if I can get my money back from Pep Boys on this coil….. Wish me luck.

Thanks for all the help. I appreciate it. Working under the hood in Tucson in July sucks!
Click to expand...

It's not much more fun working under a truck in January here either,with a 2 foot nor'easter howling at 60 mph..trade ya!..:rolleyes::D

As for returning a used coil,good luck--most auto parts stores have a strict "no return on electrical parts" policy...unless the part was never bolted on..--
--however,how you word it when you ask for a refund can make the difference between getting one,or sent away dissapointed..

When I worked in parts stores,that was always a difficult position to be in,when a good customer would come in with a starter and say "I put it on,but it still wouldn't start--then I found a bad battery cable and bought one here and that fixed it"..I had no choice but to say "sorry,you bolted it on,now it's "used",and I cant sell it as "new"..(If I did take it back I'd likely be fired when the boss saw bolts marks, and it tested good on the tester ).

You could say the coil is defective and you had to buy another one elsewhere,they may give you a refund then--often I'd have customers say "I got stranded and had to buy one where I broke down...or maybe they will exchange it for another new one you can keep for a spare..keep the sales slip !..
I had more than one customer who did just that,and came in when I was at lunch,and had my unsuspecting co-worker give him his money back when he said "I didn't need this after all"...
 
Stump and Deisel. I took it back and explained what it was doing and the guy said "sounds defective, want your money back"? I was surprised, I was thinking I'd have to bargain for in store credit or something.

When it's 110 air temps the ground gets up to 160 plus. 60 MPH winds tell me just not to go outside!!!!

Then again so does 110…..
 
Maybe stores are loosening up some on their return policies--I notice many of the younger countermen don't seem to care much about taking parts back and giving refunds lately,my friend who spends several grand a month at several stores says he notices it too.."anything goes" lately..

They are willing to take parts back and give refunds without much if any hassles,and give deep discounts if you tell them you can buy it for less elsewhere--many places "match prices" ,but wont come right out and say so!.

Both myself and my friend suspect the amount of inferior quality parts from overseas perhaps has forced stores to loosen up their refund and return policies..we see totes full of parts labeled "defective" being sent back daily at the stores we frequent..it used to be fairly rare for a part to be "bad" right out of the box..now its a crap shoot whether or not you'll get a good one!..

Also the sheer number of stores in my area also has a bearing I bet,they are all vying for the same customer..the store with the "easiest" sales policy wins most of the time--and the crabby old "jobber" store with the strict return policy loses more customers every day!....there's only so many people here to buy parts,so competition is fierce..
 
Also the sheer number of stores in my area also has a bearing I bet,they are all vying for the same customer..the store with the "easiest" sales policy wins most of the time--and the crabby old "jobber" store with the strict return policy loses more customers every day!....there's only so many people here to buy parts,so competition is fierce..


I'm a manager for Auto Zone. I can tell you for a fact that we have a return policy that is meant to take care of our customers. We want your business and we will bend over backwards to make sure you have a positive experience in our stores.
 
People often bash AutoZone,but I have no problems with the local ones I deal with,and the one my friend uses for first choice for his parts at his repair shop gives him some amazing deals on prices,since he spends so much there..he also likes their warranty on many parts,so he wont have to buy them twice if one does go bad sooner than it should have..

Sometimes if they are changing brands on some items,they are told to just "put it in the dumpster" after the store gets credit for it..and they'll tell him about it..he's gotten things like fluids,tools,and once a few years ago when the store switched from "Motormite" to "HELP" brand,he wound up with a whole display wall including the pegboard and all the hardware they were about to heave out!..


Lots of people shop online now too--as does some parts stores here,many use Rock Auto and Summit as "next day special order" warehouses,and they hope the customer doesn't know about such places and options,they can make a lot of profit off both the part and shipping..

Personally I don't know how all the stores here stay in bussiness--the town has only maybe 20,000 people,but there are a few with over 50,000 not far away,but they all have several branches of the same parts stores too!..I would think there isn't enough customers to support them all..:dunno:
 
The no return on electrical parts is to prevent people from using new parts as diagnostic equipment. Defective, is defective.

Martin
 
I think the fact I drove my Blazer to the store after it sat in his parking lot may have helped. That and I knew what I was talking about. I dunno.

I like Auto Zone, I just hate being next in line and they look at you straight in the eye while they answer the phone…… Answer the phone, that's cool, but put the caller on hold while you help the in store customer.
 
That's always a problem in any parts store--I often got scolded for not picking up the phone,or answering it within 3 rings,then putting the person on hold,when I was waiting on someone standing there at the counter--I felt the person standing there with money in hand was my first priority,and wished the bosses felt the same way--.Nope,they wanted you to wait on 2 people at once,do 3 things at once,not screw any of them up,and all for the same amount of pay..

I had more than one paying customer with a pretty sizeable order simply walk out in a huff when I answered the phone..and I didn't blame them!..

The person there SHOULD not be forced to wait,while someone on the phone,usually a housewife with no clue as to what size engine the vehicle has,gets bellowed at by her drunken husband when she asks him "what engine does it have",etc..they waste several minutes of your time looking up the parts,having you make sure they are really in stock ,and then hang up,usually never to be seen or heard from again..

Or,you get a call from a commercial account,your "best" customer,who wants to price a complete exhaust system or other parts that require several minutes of time,and want to know if anything needs to be ordered..you cant just put them on hold,or tell them I'll call you right back--they'll just call your competitor and have them send the parts rather than "wait"..

Meanwhile,your customer standing there is getting more aggravated by the minute,and often either forgets something,or forgoes buying anything else, for fear they will be stuck there another 10 minutes when the phone rings again..more than once I had a guy threaten me if the phone rang,saying "I'm HERE buying stuff!--don't you DARE answer that phone and ignore me!"..

I always felt an auto parts store should have a separate counter and counterperson to just answer the phone and give price quotes to "non commercial" customers..and a check out counter with a person running the register and handling the cash--it's tough enough remembering part numbers,add on the burden of ringing up the cash customers and making change with all those numbers in your head can get very confusing fast..

And you'd often get the scammers who'd say "Hey--I gave you a $20,"..when you were "fairly" sure they handed you a $10..

I used to put the bills under the cash drawer ,not right in the till,then I could say "no,I just put what you gave me right here"...

Autozone and Pep Boys here have a cashier and register to handle the cash,and I think that is a much better idea than having the counterperson do "everything"..

I also think it should be the manager or owners call to determine whether a electrical part or other item should be accepted for a refund..I had threats made to me several times after I had no choice to obey store policy,and refuse to give someone their money back,when they tried returning a "used" part..I do not feel the employees should be put in that position..
 
Diesel guys like you should be in charge. "Management Training" is the worst thing ever to happen to businesses across the board.
 
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