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Anti-Wrap pics?

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thefarside, that 4-link looks nice. Is that a kit or is that a custom setup? If you built that where did you get all of the parts, tube links and brackets etc? Do you have any more pictures?

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Found it; the setup is from balzackks84. Who also posted in this thread.

balzackks84, care to send some info his/my why? TIA
 
The tubing is some .130 or .135, 1.5 " HREW. The crossmember is made out of 1x3" .125. The shackle that it mounts to is an old GM rear shackle that I modified. The ends I got from the local tractor shop. I think they are called top links for mowing decks /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif. But it comes with (2) 3/4" heims and a short bar. I actually cut the bar in half and welded those on to the end of the bar. Like I said it works but the upper and lower need to meet farther along the upper bar and it needs some support between the two.
 
once I put new batteries in the camera I'll get some none blurry pics of mine. it's DOM tubing with a 3/4" heim joint on the front and some A arm bushings on the axle side.
I basicly bugged Zack about his and then corrected his two flaws (wrong intersecting points and no bracing between the bars.)

My front mount is the stock second t-case mount for when ya have a stock skid plate. modified to fit a shackle similiar to Zacks. with missalignment collars for the heim joint.
 
Im lookin into anti wrap bars right now also.. If i did the setup like the first set of pictures, and with a shackle mounte don a crossmember, would I mount the shackle, leanin tot he rear/front/ or striaght up and down? And could I take one bar from each side of the axle to meet meet in the center, on a hiem joint, mounted to a shackle.. basicly, the same setup as the first set up pictures, but with the bars tied into one another?

EDIT: Did some searching found the setup I like
http://www.budbuilt.com/new/traction_bars.html

I would of course have to change how they have the rear braket ebcuase I dotn ahve a thirdmember..

How do you guys thinks this type would work?
 
Here is mine...from Az-Kickin

1019Az-Kickin_bar-med.jpg


Rene
 
i just put some old fashion lader bars,kept them above bottom of tubes,they acctually saved my ds a number of times by sliding on them,they only mount to the tube just a simple bar with bushings but they work.
dustin5.jpg
 
Ok, so Im not a physics major... /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Why does it matter where the attach point of the lower bar to the upper is located? You say that yours isnt far enough along the upper? What are the indications you feel because of this?
Also, why is it important to have the upper bar level? What are the effects if it isnt level? The Toyota ones they are selling arent close to level on that site.
Just want to get the dynamics clarified before I draw and build mine.
Thanks
Mike
 
Having the upper bar level helps reduce anti-squat. The more upward angle the more the rear suspension tries to 'drive under' the bar under hard acceleration. You might have seen pic's of BorregoK5's early design...where he power braked the truck and the rear came up about 6".

My upper and lower bars aren't connected at all...but both are full length. If they were gonna come together and have a single mount, having them come together closer to the shackle would keep the upper from bending.

Rene
 
I get it now! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Took me a minute to visualize the upper link bending, but then I realized you meant forward of the join. Sometimes I try to equate too much automotive stuff with the fighter jet world and it doesnt work! Hehe.
Plans for mine are being drawn today and hopefully some 'anti wrapping' will be happening in the next couple weeks.
We have a big club event at Alberta Safari Park in Edmonton in April, so I want to be ready for it! This wheel hop from the Lincoln locker is driving me nuts!
Thanks Rene for the clarification.
Later!
Mike
/forums/images/graemlins/peace.gif
 
From most of the pics it looks like people set up the frame side mount so that it floats front to rear to eliminate binding. If that assumption is correct then what difference does the angle matter. All of the forward/reverse force is still transmitted through the leaf springs. The only force through the anti-wrap bar should be vertical and only when accelerating/decelerating.

BADDOG's is a little different where it looks to only have one connection point at the axle. In this case the angle should matter, but it still looks like his frame side mount is also floating? Dunno, some of this isn't making sense to me right now. /forums/images/graemlins/dunno.gif Dam head cold and thera flu.

Mike
 
Mine has 2 points on the axle, they just happen to be front and rear as opposed to top and bottom. With only one point on the axle, it wouldn't work. Frankly, top and bottom is generally better since it is better able to deal with axle steer in articulation. Mine is what it is due to the fact that the Montero radius arm was handy when I needed something finished fast.
 
With a shackle at the frame the angle of the torque arm doesn't matter(edit: for anti-squat...it does matter to keep it from binding with the leafs)...it is the length that matters. This is because it isn't really a "link" it can be thought of better as a part of the axle housing. The part that is a "link" is the shackle at the end. That guy needs to be verticle (or at least if it isn't you should know why you didn't make it verticle).
 
True, that's because the line the defines your anti-squat comes from the tire contact point. I said level earlier just as a "rule of thumb" since it's basically impossible on a 4x4 to get the front below level. In general, to reduce spring bind, the length should put the pivot right around the front spring eye.
 
Why link at the front sprign hanger and not by the frony ujoint on the drive sahft, id figure youd want to keep it in angle with your driveshaft to reduece binding
 
Well, that depends on what your after. Longer will give less anti-squat. Putting the pivot near the front u-joint will maintain the pinion angle relative to the rear case output. Putting it near the front spring bolt will reduce spring bind.

Note that putting the pivot at the case output would only be good for a CV shaft when combined with extreme travel. Of course a shorter bar will compound the problem for non-CV shafts, but the issue of shaft geometry (related to anti-wrap related pinion angle changes) is not really a problem for rock crawlers in any case (we don't need extreme travel, and the value of extreme articulation is debatable).

My point was that most people are concerned about spring bind because it limits articulation. Figuring out the theoretical pivot point of the axle housing (somewhere around the frame center line at the front spring mount) would generally be the best way to do this. But this is a gross generalization since there are many factors at work here, it’s just a general “rule of thumb”. If the pivot is too far off the ideal, then it will fight the natural movement of the spring/axle assembly leading to even more limited articulation at best, or broken parts at worst.
 
OMG, you guys just went waayyy over my head. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
If I can weed through all the serious technical jargon to the root, and build a bar that will cut down my axle wrap while still letting me occasionally crawl some rocks, what kind of bar am I looking at?
I was thinking about making a crossmember bar across between my frame rails somewhere between the front of the leaf packs and the transfer crossmember, putting on a mount and a shackle (allowing it to pivot rearward as the axle moves), building a bar that goes from there back to the top of my axle tube to a mount (high enough for the bar to be near level but not interfere with the floor of my truck), making a branch off this top bar (close to the forward end) that angles down to a second mount about the mid point of the axle tube on the forward side of it (so as its above the bottom of the axle tube and out of the way of obstacles).
I dont know much about this anti squat stuff, or the spring binding stuff, and Im not sure I am serious enough to really care about it as long as it helps fix my axle wrap and wheel hop issues.
Am I going to be running into serious problems if its not built by a CAD computer controlled milling machine with chromoly tubing and 85.00 heim joints? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif Hehe.
Thanks!

Mike
 
Put the ladder bar on the passanger side of the diff but as close to the diff as possible.

Put the front eye somewhere between t-case output and front spring eye bolt.

Try and have it slope about the same as the front part of your leaves.

Make the shackle verticle...Pointing up or down depending on how it fits better.

I think that will get you (and most people) what you want.
 
Awesome! Like I said, Im not a serious enough crawler to have to be too concerned about all the physics of getting every inch of free movement out of it, and I think maybe half of the guys on here arent as well. But I dont want to smash stuff either. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
If it will do the job, Ill be happy.
Thanks for the info.
Mike
 
For what it's worth, I agree on all points with what Dan said (and he knows this stuff much better than I do). Only one thing to add. The slope angle he is describing would be a straight line between the axle center line and the pivot point. Jacking up the mounts on the axle to change the angle of the bar(s) itself only serve to change stress on the mounts, not the characteristics of the anti-wrap.
 
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