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Any tips on carrier set up w/out old shims???

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elks

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So I have a Dana 44 in my 72 blazer. It has 4.56 gears and a detroit locker in the front. The PO when they set it up years ago somehow shimmed the bearing cups on the carrier instead of shimming between the carrier and bearing like it is supposed to be done. As a result when I caught the carrier as it came out the shims got all mixed up. So with that being said, how the heck do I go about getting the new shim pack figured out? Of course the pinon depth was shimmed all funky as well. I thin I have it close...

I can find all sorts of information about using the old shims as a guide, but nothing about how to start completely from scratch.

Thanks all..
 
Yukon instructions have a chart with oe pinion depth shims. Then with no ring on the carrier or no pinion and while using setup bearings, set your preload.
I like to match it on both sides with a couple twelves and a few fives or threes. Set your preload and then add it up. Youll know your total shim stack for carrier preload. Then just move em around for backlash.
Its gonna take some messing with.
 
What was funky about the pinion shims? If you believe that you are close, can you check the pattern and see how it looks?
My thoughts are that the front end isn't quite as critical to get perfect as the noise usually isn't a problem. Most of us don't run the front axle locked over 45 mph.
 
I always use setup bearings that allow me to easily change shim stacks. When I have to start from scratch, I set the carrier in with no shims and setup the dial indicator on the side. Cycle it back and forth to see what I need to start with.
 
The pinon shims did not really exist. At least not how I am used to seeing them. I always thought that the pinon depth was set by shims behind the inner pinon bearing cup. When I tapped it out there were no shims at all. Instead there was a tin/shim with an offset pressed between the inner pinon bearing and the pinon. I have seen diagrams with this, I am assuming it is a slinger. So I went back to a base shim set behind the pinon of .042 and then kept the slinger. I then shimmed the outer bearing until I got 18-19 inch pounds to turn on the brand new bearings. I know that is a on the tight end of spec. But any other adjustment I made using the shims I had kept shifting down to 12-13. So I stuck with tight. I am now fiddling with the carrier shims. I did a little research and found on Pirate a couple pointers. I came up with a rough shim pack guess. So with my set up bearings I put the shim pack on, it was snug enough that I had to tap the carrier in with a dead blow. Not really hard, but I had to keep it really straight to fit. When I first went in I must have flipped the shim packs I had envisioned as I had no backlash at all, So it came back out and I shifted 1 shim over it gave me like .001 of back lash. So back out it came. I moved one more shim and now have like .017 backlash.

So my next plan in the morning as I have been after this now for since 8:00 this morning and it is now 9:30. Is to shift about .010 from back. If I remember right a .010 shim makes it have about .007 in total adjustment. Once I get the BL in the .006-.010 range I am going to look at my wear pattern.

So let me know if this was the way to make it... Shimmed pinon depth and then pinon preload. Then with out the pinon installed I installed the carrier with no shim and my set up bearings. I measure the "end play side to side" to give me a rough shim amount that was around .086. I then installed the pinon again and check the "end play" on the carrier with the pinon. From this I ended up with a rough calculation of .070 on the one side and .016 on the other. It was way to tight as I flipped the shim packs. I moved shims around until I got .017 back lash. So now I need to make adjustments until I get land between the .006 and .010 range.

The only part I do not get right now, is knowing what the carrier preload is supposed to be and how to figure that? Am I setting preload by shimming the carrier in between the bearings and the carrier? Is there a specific number I am supposed to hit or is back lash my main number?

Wow that was really long, but not as long as my day... Thanks again for the help guys...
 
Setting the carrier preload is rather difficult without a case spreader. I just try to use the deadblow to install it as you describe, and get it snug, but also get the backlash correct. I personally don't try to get the preload perfect until I get the pattern close. This keeps me from going crazy trying to get the pattern in the ballpark.
If the pattern isn't close, the the preload and backlash aren't going to be very crucial in my mind. I know that they all work together, but I have to relax my concern for one spec in order to get progress with the overall process.
I guess that i set backlash, check pattern, then get preload which can cause more challenges to maintain backlash.
I hope that makes sense.
 
6872xtc said:
Setting the carrier preload is rather difficult without a case spreader. I just try to use the deadblow to install it as you describe, and get it snug, but also get the backlash correct. I personally don't try to get the preload perfect until I get the pattern close. This keeps me from going crazy trying to get the pattern in the ballpark.
If the pattern isn't close, the the preload and backlash aren't going to be very crucial in my mind. I know that they all work together, but I have to relax my concern for one spec in order to get progress with the overall process.
I guess that i set backlash, check pattern, then get preload which can cause more challenges to maintain backlash.
I hope that makes sense.
Click to expand...

Dead on
 
Thanks guys. So if I am at .017 backlash, should I just check pattern to verify piñon depth or should I work down to the .006 to .010 backlash first?

Remind you I am not certain I am anywhere close on piñon because I was not sure how that extra slinger will affect the over all depth. Would it be better to check a wear pattern for just piñon depth first or get everything right then worry about wear?
 
You need your backlash to be correct to check your pattern. Use just enough shims so you can install and remove the carrier without a fight till you get your pattern correct. Then once pinion depth is correct and pattern is getting really close, then add a few thousandths equally on both sides to preload your carrier
 
I'll just echo much that has been said. Except one thing I just get my backlash ball park when I start on pinion depth. But then again I know what the pattern is gonna do. Also ball park for me on backlash is usually pretty close to spec.

As far as carrier bearing preload. You can do it without a case spreader. Get the pattern and backlash done. Before final install, add .003 to .005 to each side of the carrier . Adding to both sides will not change backlash at all. But you must add the same to both sides. Without a case spreader in a Dana 44 I'd stick closer to the .003

Post the pattern if you not sure. Remember on front low pinion gears it's driving on the coast side. With used gears I ignore the driven ( in your case coast) side of the gears . Pattern is worn in. If the drive side looks solid your likely there.

You can text me pictures of the pattern if you want. Hard to read sometimes but occasionally I have been helpful!
 
Oh and the slinger under the lower pinion bearing ( closest to the pinion head) has to be measured and accounted for in the setup. I usually just add shims to account for it. Then when I press on my new bearings I remove shims and put the slinger on. Anything south of that lower bearings affects depth
 
So made one fast adjustment this morning. Got my back lash to .007 .... Ran the paint and came up with a pattern, I have pics on my phone but not sure how to upload and get them in the thread. Any thoughts? I can text a picture or???
 
I keep getting redX on my picture. Do I have to be a paying member to share?
 
I believe that there is a way to post pics without being a paying member, but I don't know what it is.
Hopefully @blazinzuk will check in here and get you his cell # . I don't feel super confident in my skills of checking a pattern in a picture, or I would say send a pic to me.
Too bad you're not just across town. Aren't you up in Rangely?
 
6872xtc said:
I believe that there is a way to post pics without being a paying member, but I don't know what it is.
Hopefully @blazinzuk will check in here and get you his cell # . I don't feel super confident in my skills of checking a pattern in a picture, or I would say send a pic to me.
Too bad you're not just across town. Aren't you up in Rangely?
Click to expand...

I used to live in Rangely, but we moved to Rifle. Case of beer if you come hang out and help me set it...
 
elks said:
I used to live in Rangely, but we moved to Rifle. Case of beer if you come hang out and help me set it...
Click to expand...
That's a great offer! I don't know if I can neglect all of the stuff that I need to do around here today though.
I am sending you my phone number. If you send me pics, I will post them up and hopefully we can get you some more information.
 
I will be fine. I am working in between baseball and softball games. Will be back at in a couple hours.
 
Ok, here are the pics if how the pattern is right now. Posted pics that were sent to me.

I believe that it is not deep enough into the ring gear. Which would make me bring the pinion out more.
Am I correct?
What do you guys say?

IMG957544.jpg

IMG957542.jpg
 
Last edited:
So I am not sure what to try. My gut tells me the ring need shimmed to the piñon more, but this has exactly .007 back lash. So I am certain I need to move the piñon out just a touch and then restart on the carrier.

Is the oil slinger necessary? In my research I have seen most did not have the shim.
 
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