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Anyone know what is up with Mike at Echobit.....

84CUCV

84CUCV

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Been four weeks and no flip yet. What the hell? Doesn't return emails either. I want my flip on my money back. This is crazy. Four weeks???? If anyone knows whats going on please let me know.


mike
 
Yes, I spent days talking my buddy into ordering from echobit and paypal ensured his payment. It's been over two full months since he ordered his shacklflips. No email. No phone call. He's not a member so I'm taking care of his business here.
juan
 
Mike is a very very busy man. As you may have read from my post that chevycagal linked onto this thread, he can only produce a limited number of products at a time. Dont worry, you will get it. In my case, I had no idea that Mike was so busy. He has not responded to your emails because he is so busy. I know because when I had the same problem you are having (ordered a shackle flip, 4 weeks went by, needed the flip the next weekend), and e-mailed mike, he only generated a slow broad e-mail response. When I informed him of my situation and how I was very hard pressed for time, he got it shipped out to me the very next day. Dont worry, he is not trying to take your money or anything, he is just very very backed up. Thats why he took the flips and most of his other efn products off of the market for a while. Im sure that if you need the flip absolutely and have a deadline, that if you explain this to mike, he will take care of you. When you do get it though, it is a great product. Fits in place perfectly, and is made to last. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
-Harrison
 
Not defending anyones business practices, but what I've learned from projects is, it's your fault if you end up needing the part before they are ready.

Don't take that the wrong way. For instance, a machine shop took almost a year to get my block work finished (long story) and that certainly wasn't my fault, but I let it drag out that long, and that caused me to start running into time constraints.

If people weren't EVER getting their parts, it would be a different story, but as you all know, the parts get done, it just takes time. Your only option, if the parts are available elsewhere, is to cancel your order and go with someone else. But thats not really fair to the business you "contracted" with.

Dunno why I'm throwing in my $.02, but I've seen these threads more than once, and they get a little old. The problem is between the customer and the business, and unless fraud is being committed, I don't really see much point in bringing it up in this forum. Yes, emails aren't being answered. Would you rather have the part worked on, or have him chatting with you about getting the part done? I know I ignore mail when I've got to get something done.
 
I dont need it. I cant still use my rig. Just waiting to bolt everything on and this is holding me up. Wanted to do it before it got to cold. Mike
 
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I'll add my tale of woe. I ordered the sliding-V from him within a day or two of getting the email that they were available from Mike himself. I paid using paypal. I also ordered some spring mounts at the same time. After about 5 weeks, I start emailing and calling. Mike calls me back, and thought I was trying to get him to build me a sliding-V. We finally cleared the air that I had paid 5 weeks prior, and he says "Oh, this one is yours then. It's been sitting here for a few weeks".

A little miffed, but just glad to get the air cleared. After another week and a half, nothing arrives. I email Mike some more, and he sends me a tracking number. Great! I watch the tracking number for a few days and notice it's not doing anything. Mike didn't specify if the package was to be picked up or delivered to UPS. I am back to emailing and PM'ing him. I didn't want to start complaining to the general public b/c I know he is busy. But...it's been 9 weeks, and my tracking number hasn't moved in 3.

I got shock mounts instead of spring mounts in the mail, and my axle location project as well has been on hold for 9 weeks, and I have a new transfer case to go in, that I can't touch b/c of the move from slip yoke to CV shaft, which I need to rotate the axle for measurements.

I agree, I have to be flexible for when he gets backed up, but 9 weeks, his phone number being disconnected, emails no longer being returned, PM's going unread. I was never particularly rude or mean about any of it, but I think it has been pushed far enough.
 
No that really sucks! I thought 4 weeks was bad. DId you work it out? Mike
 
If he is trying to run a BUSINESS, then he has a serious problem. The Customer Is King, and NO COMMUNICATION to your customer's problems (real or imagined) will kill any BUSINESS. Unhappy customers find someone else to buy from.

If he is trying to run a HOBBY, then he doesn't really need to worry about customer service.

One of the reasons why approx. 80% of new businesses fail isn't because they make a poor product, it's that they run a poor business.

I hope that he can hold it together, I understand that his product quality is first rate.

/forums/images/graemlins/usaflag.gif /forums/images/graemlins/k5.gif
 
yeah, im thinkin echo needs to hire a part time person to take calls and answer emails... he'd clearly swamped doing shop work and not being in touch with customers is bad... very bad.

j
 
When I first read these posts I was shocked! After a little digging though, I found the source of most of these concerns originated when I switched hosting providers and my MX records were not configured correctly (unknown catch all address). If you emailed me and I didn’t respond, its because I didn’t get it. You can find more info on the EchoBoard later today.

First off, Echobit has a Tech Support Message Forum available to everyone (even anonymous so you don’t have to be a member). While I'm a member of CK5, I haven't logged on in a good long time and would never have known these concerns had someone here not gone over to the EchoBoard and posted regarding this thread.

Mike: I'm behind on a lot of orders and yours is no exception. Recent fire events here in SoCal have caused even longer delays. Some of the larger items like Dwarfs wrap bar had priority in getting finished up, and had several revisions made before it shipped. I am willing to work with you to get your order out but keep in mind everyone wants it yesterday, not just you so I have to take them in the order I receive them.

Dwarf: Your wrap bar shipped yesterday. I wrote you several times regarding the delays. The first was because one of the wrap bars in use had a failure and I wanted to make sure yours included any changes that may need to be made as a result - and you agreed (but didn’t make any mention to this in this post). I didn’t want to send you the revised bar until it had been tested and expected to get the results back from the field the day I gave you the tracking number. When I didn’t hear back from the results I sent you another email saying I was holding off the drop-off until I heard back from the other bar. I heard back yesterday that all was good, and the bar was dropped off. I would think you would be happy that I made sure you had the latest and greatest as well as something that was pre-testing and not using you as a guinea pig - I don’t do business that way. I'm not sure who you are calling, but my phone is not and has never been disconnected - you should always be able to get at least the recording. I have not however been around to get the phone since its not in the shop or at any of my contract sites.

Its a sad state of affairs but the big reason I'm dropping so many of my in-house fabricated 69-91 Chevy Blazer parts is because people in this market either cant afford to or wont put the money toward custom gear that all the other makes and models do. I did everything I could to cut the price down to what was affordable for the masses by eliminating almost all of my overhead including web/phone support as well as my bottom line. These types of constraints lend to production delays, which in turn causes posts like this. Your going to find it harder and harder to get cool custom stuff for these trucks as more and more companies like myself reach this bottom line and discontinue the parts. I'm not going out of business, but I am beginning to cater more toward the newer Chevy, Ford and Jeep custom stuff since the parts are in higher demand and provide a much higher profit margin which allows me more room to give back with employees and support. Take advantage of the custom stuff while you can because people like TonyP and JKW Offroad wont be making these parts forever if they don't make enough off them to sustain.

For the rest of you who may have questions on orders, please come over to the Echobit Message forum with questions until I can work out my email issues. I just spent 3 hours on the phone with my provider gathering information on what needs fixing. Thanks.

- Mike
 
Mike,
I was not slighting you in my post. I specifically said that I didn't care to bash you in a public forum if you were having personal issues. The fact of the matter was that I did call and get a number disconnected message, had emailed, and PM'ed you on CK5. I didn't use the public forums on Echobit, or anywhere else for that matter. On the one hand, I know you have a great product, and are well respected within the community. I don't want you to take this as an opportunity to say that the reason you can't sustain business is due to people complaining. You set a price, I paid it gladly, and 9 weeks later I hadn't recieved it. I left out the communication prior to 3 weeks ago, because it would have made the story longer, and not added much value. I didn't say you had ignored me the whole time, I said that as of 3 weeks ago, you were not responding anymore. On the other hand, I am glad I participated in this post, because I now know the state of my order, and can look forward to working on my project some more next week.

Thanks for your response
 
I just wonder if everyone would be so polite about this problem if the person was not a member here? Seems like if he is that busy he needs to stop taking money, or if he has that much work hire some one to help get the stuff out. Some of these items are not huge things requiring extensive machine and fabricating, so 4-6 weeks seems excessive. Also it would be nice to people buying these items if they were told 4-6 weeks when they ordered. Just my 2 cents.
 
I would hope membership has nothing to do with it – I wouldn’t treat a non member with any less respect as a member – they are both human beings. Dwarf and I have opened up a communication channel both here and in PM’s now. I only wish the frustration level hadn’t gotten so high before I became aware of it and could help Dwarf get the info he was looking for. It’s a vicious cycle you can get into if you fall behind on production of a part that doesn't bring in enough profit to sustain its production. You still have orders to fill and sometimes the most recent sales help to pay for previous losses. It’s a fact of business you have to account for and unless your independently wealthy, you’ll have to work with it. You’ll notice I have pulled the products off the site to manage delays. The remaining products are made by other fabricators (most are members) and are subject to their own production schedule, not mine.

I’ve spent over 4 hours today on the PC and phone – I need to get back to work for everyone’s shipments. I’ll check back again later tonight.

- Mike
 
[ QUOTE ]
Its a sad state of affairs but the big reason I'm dropping so many of my in-house fabricated 69-91 Chevy Blazer parts is because people in this market either cant afford to or wont put the money toward custom gear that all the other makes and models do

[/ QUOTE ]

Mike, I understand being busy, and backed up with requests for orders, but I don't understand the above statement. What type of custom gear are you referring to?

Not all of us need/want roll cages, tube chassis, or buggy frames.

I don't see a whole lot of late models, jeeps etc. hacked up and mod'ed like this. What I do see is average folks like myself, who consider their trucks a hobby, enjoy wrenching on them, and appreciate well made fabricated parts.


[ QUOTE ]
I did everything I could to cut the price down to what was affordable for the masses by eliminating almost all of my overhead including web/phone support as well as my bottom line. These types of constraints lend to production delays, which in turn causes posts like this. Your going to find it harder and harder to get cool custom stuff for these trucks as more and more companies like myself reach this bottom line and discontinue the parts. I'm not going out of business, but I am beginning to cater more toward the newer Chevy, Ford and Jeep custom stuff since the parts are in higher demand and provide a much higher profit margin which allows me more room to give back with employees and support.

[/ QUOTE ]

The price/cost issure was delt with in a previous post, but I have to ask, In a consumer based, market driven economy, why not charge what the market will bear? Why price yourself into the hole, then get backed up in production, and end up eliminating the products as a result?

It's obvious that there is a demand for your flips and other parts, so why not increase the price to offset your costs, make enough of them to satisfy demand, and put some $$$ in your pocket?

I ordered flips from you twice, and after waiting until my project got to the point of being unable to wait any longer, cancelled the order and went with a more expensive alternative to get the /forums/images/graemlins/k5.gif finished. (Both times you gladly and instantly refunded my money)

I would have happily paid more for the flips, to save myself money and frustration in the long run, and to get them in a timely manner.

You have been, and are continuing to provide high quality, well made custom parts. I hate to see them off the market.

I would gladly place another order with you today, for sliders (discontinued) and in the near future, front and rear bumpers.

But, it would be hard to commit major $$$ for custom work, when it seems there is such a struggle to get the small stuff made and out the door.

This post is not meant to bitch, but why not price the flips and stuff in demand to a level you are comfortable with, and then see if anybody still wants them?

I have spent $7000+ on my rig over the last 6 months, and have done business with ORD, Rockstomper, WTO, Parts Mike, TONYP, JB Conversions, and High Angle Driveline.

Could I have bought a cheaper crossover setup than ORD's? Yeah. Could I have gotten cheaper driveshafts from another fabricator than Jess? yeah. Could I have bought a flip setup from ORD? yeah.

I chose to do business with the suppliers above because they are known for the quality parts they make, and the customer service they provide. I'm not knocking other companies who make the same things. I chose the folks above for their reputation, eagerness to answer my questions and provide technical assistance, and ability to deliver the parts ordered in a reasonable amout of time. Did it cost more? Yes.
Was it worth it?
Absolutely!

I decided to order your flips based on their high quality, and ease of installation. Was cost a factor in my decision? Initially, yes, but in the end my decision was based on the ability to do a quick bolt on installation, single-handedly, in my driveway.

I hope you can get caught up, and will make the flips, sliders, and other parts once again.

I wish you well, and hope we can do business in the future.

Byron
 
What I'm reffering to is the typical 73-91 Chevy owner, there are those who will but the market share isn't large enough to commit a production line to it at a reasonable price for the little fab shop. Thats why so many of the available parts are mass production and not the quality people are looking for. Here's an example:

When I first released the shackle flip at $75 + $15 shipping, the flips sold well. When I changed the pricing to $80 + $10 shipping they sales dropped by 50%. Now the overall price remained the same but the perception was the price went up. As I later had to increase the overall price to maintain making them, sales dropped yet again. That tells me what people are willing to pay and is in fact valuable info. Also, when you pay between $500-$4000 for you truck, that plays a large role in how much you'll spend in aftermarket parts. A set of sliders for a K5 is a hard sell over $250. When you pay $25000 for your new F150 or GMC then your more willing to spend a higher amount on the same sliders and I have often had them say "Wow, I got it on sale!" for a $750 set of sliders. The amount of work is the same. Its frustrating as a K5 owner myself, but its the way things are and it effects us wether we like it or not. I could only make a difference for so long before I had to follow suit or risk going under.
 
[ QUOTE ]
What I'm reffering to is the typical 73-91 Chevy owner, thare are those who will but the market share isn't large enough to commit a production line to it at a reasonable price for the little fab shop. Thats why so many of the parts are mass production and not the quality people are looking for. Here's an example:

When I first released the shackle flip at $75 + $15 shipping, the flips sold well. When I changed the pricing to $80 + $10 shipping they sales dropped by 50%. Now the overall price remained the same but the perception was the price went up. As I later had to increase the overall price to maintain making them, sales dropped yet again. That tells me what people are willing to pay is in fact valuable info. Also, when you pay between $500-$4000 for you truck, that plays a large role in how much you'll spend in aftermarket parts. A set of sliders for a K5 is a hard sell over $250. When you pay $25000 for your new F150 or GMC then your more willing to spend a higher amount on the same sliders and have opten had them say "Wow, I got it on sale!" for $750 set of sliders. The amount of work is the same. Its frustrrating as a K5 owner myself, but its the way things are and it effects us wether we like it or not. I could only make a difference for so long before I had to follow suit or risk going under.

[/ QUOTE ]

The economics are sad but true...

I have to ask, since you are obviously moving forward in another direction, will you be making 'custom' orders for K5'S?

For instance, If I were to want a front/rear bumper, sliders, etc as a custom order together, would you consider it? Or is it a matter of setting up your shop to fab parts specifically for the higher end stuff?

Just curious.

Thanks for the explaination, I understand the deal now.

Perhaps one of your fab partners might take up producing the flips at an additional cost....

Even so, it's a loss for the K5 community.....

Thanks, and good luck!
Byron
 
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