arb vs detroit...worth the extra coin?

[pauly383]

Its cool , I see all sides of it , so I was just saying I understand the no money thing , which was also a factor in choosing a straight locker from the get go for me .

As for the lockers I bought , I love the simpleness , and the fact its always there , not going to knock ARB's though , they do work for some , and I have seen Mikes work well .

 

[blazin_blazer]

what about the cable operated lockers? no need for air, so no worries of losing air supply, are the cable accuated locker up to the call?

 

[Big Blzn]

Just wondering. When people are talking about not haveing the OBA working is it usually a matter of poor maintenance of the OBA or are many of the situations having the hoses rip off on rocks or stumps or what have you? I know there are always unforeseen (sp) occurences on the trail but it seems like you should always have the OBA working properly before a trail ride because the OBA is used for so many other things other than just a locker or are you guys saying the OBA is only dedicated to the lockers system? Just wondering for some future application or need on my end.
Hoby

 

[Hogback Fabrication]

Just wondering. When people are talking about not haveing the OBA working is it usually a matter of poor maintenance of the OBA or are many of the situations having the hoses rip off on rocks or stumps or what have you? I know there are always unforeseen (sp) occurences on the trail but it seems like you should always have the OBA working properly before a trail ride because the OBA is used for so many other things other than just a locker or are you guys saying the OBA is only dedicated to the lockers system? Just wondering for some future application or need on my end.
Hoby

OBA should be very reliable.

When you hear anyone talk about air leaks they are talking about the seals in the ARB leaking inside the diff.

IME ARB's are very reliable and are usually easily repaired if a leak develops.

IME most people talking about reliability issues with ARB's don't actually have them. Everyone I know that has an ARB loves it.

 

[Hogback Fabrication]

what about the cable operated lockers? no need for air, so no worries of losing air supply, are the cable accuated locker up to the call?

Other than military cable actuated lockers (like Unimogs) I'm only aware of Ox lockers.

They had tons of design and cable problems and promptly went out of business. Their name/designs were bought up by somebody else and they are back with supposedly better designs.


Pneumatics are generally the cheapest and most reliable way to power actuators, most assembly line equipment is pneumatic.

 

[MaxPF]

Fair enough. The four ARB's in our two trail trucks have worked out well over many years now. For a more hardcore opinion, ask Stephen Watson of ORD. Last time I saw Wally, I could have sworn it had an air line to the rear as well.

And no, I don't ask opinions, not on CK5 anymore. If I have a question, I ask people who go 'wheeling.

Sigfile!!!


Also, FWIW I voted ARB front and rear. I had a NoSlip in the S-10 I used to own, and now I have Eaton E-Lockers in both diffs of my Blazer. After having selectables I wouldn't want to go back to automatics. That said, if I ever start building a buggy it will probably have an automatic in the front and a spool in the rear, since it is going to be a "budget" project

 

[blowedupmotor87]

I voted for ARB front Detroit rear. That's the set-up I've got sitting in my garage waiting to go under the Jimmy. I've never wheeled something locked front and rear before, yet. I'm looking forward to it! I figured the Detroit rear is fine, even with road use. I never minded my automatic rear locker (Aussie) in the ZJ I had, even on the street (never drove it in snow though, I live in NC, snow is rare!) . When I was wheeling, I wished I had a front locker. But, it seemed to me that when I wheeled with people with automatic front lockers, they had trouble making tight turns so, a selectable locker seemed like a good idea to me. We'll see how it goes when the Jimmy and the parts pile are one entity!

 

[Rhino6678]

from wat i have read the ox locker is the way to go simply becase of the no air line if ur worried about that , i sent an email out to them bouta week ago asking about the 14bolt locker becasue they dont offer one , he said check back in 3 months ...... so my choice it the ox....... just my 2 cents

 

[blazinzuk]

Kind of depends I have detroits front and rear and have never had problems at all. If I need to turn bad I can usually slip my t-case into 2 low get turned and get back into 4 low pretty quick.

Most of the problems I have seen with ARBs is bad air line routing and problems with the pump. The lockers themselves (the new ones) rarely have leaks in the diff.

I would go with an ARB in front and a detroit in the back. The only off road situation I have been in where it would have been nice to have an ARB in the back is sidehilling in mud or snow. something I try to avoid. Being able to switch off your rear in ice might be nice too but I have driven with an automatic rear locker for 13 years now and have been fine with it

 

[Hogback Fabrication]

FYI:

Many buggies run a mechanical locker in the front and a selectable locker in the rear. This helps them do front digs better.



I said it before but ARB's are very reliable (and you don't hear much talk about Teraflex's air locker but it seems good too).

I'm not a fan of OX lockers from secondhand experience (seeing people on the trail with trouble with them along with the bad things I've heard).

I liked the Eaton E-locker design and even had one for my front 60 (kinda). I ordered one a few years ago (when they first came out) and they shipped me a 30 spline unit (instead of 35 spline like it should be). I spoke with the vendor and the box had the correct part # on it but the locker inside was not the right one. They immediately checked the rest of the stock and apparently Eaton had mispackaged most of their D60 lockers.

I spoke directly to Eaton and they kept claiming that their 35 spline D60 locker would be delivered in "a week or two". I believed them for a couple months before I got a refund and bought a Detroit instead.

Eaton did eventually release the D60 35 spline E-locker (~14 months later) and had a bunch of problems with it. Supposedly they are fixed. If they are, Eaton is a great company with a very good reputation. I really liked the way the locker was actuated and the price.


Don't forget how easy Detroits break when you break a shaft or hub


I said it before, but I think most people that say bad things about ARB's don't have one. They are great lockers and are very reliable, they just require $$$.

 

[Hossbaby50]

Don't forget how easy Detroits break when you break a shaft or hub

Exactly how easy is it? I have seen numberous shafts & hubs popped with Detroits, Lockrights, EZ-lockers, etc and have seen very few destroyed lockers.

The only Detroit that pretty much grenades when a shaft blows is the 14bff Detroit. I know 2 guy who broke 14bff shafts and they both broke the Detroit at the same time. Breaking 14bff shafts is few and far between though.

Harley

 

[Hogback Fabrication]

Exactly how easy is it? I have seen numberous shafts & hubs popped with Detroits, Lockrights, EZ-lockers, etc and have seen very few destroyed lockers.

The only Detroit that pretty much grenades when a shaft blows is the 14bff Detroit. I know 2 guy who broke 14bff shafts and they both broke the Detroit at the same time. Breaking 14bff shafts is few and far between though.

Harley

I have broken one 30 spline D60 stub shaft and hub (at the same time) and my Detroit was fine (it was a very soft break, I didn't even hear it).


This thread has lots of testimony regarding broken detroits.

The locker itself is very strong but they are very susceptible to breaking from the shock load of a broken shaft or hub.


IMO, its hit or miss whether the Detroit will break when a shaft or hub goes. The stronger the shaft/hub the more potential it has to shock load the locker and break it. That's why I think my quiet break (i.e very weak 30 spline outers and Warn hubs) didn't shock load the locker enough to break it.



I would trade my detroits for any selectable locker in a heartbeat.

 

[6.2Blazer]

what about the cable operated lockers? no need for air, so no worries of losing air supply, are the cable accuated locker up to the call?

There are two or three guys in our club with the OX cable lockers. I know at least two of them (with a total of 3 lockers) always seem to have problems getting them to engage and have to stop and mess with the cable adjustment.

 

[6.2Blazer]

Just wondering. When people are talking about not haveing the OBA working is it usually a matter of poor maintenance of the OBA or are many of the situations having the hoses rip off on rocks or stumps or what have you? I know there are always unforeseen (sp) occurences on the trail but it seems like you should always have the OBA working properly before a trail ride because the OBA is used for so many other things other than just a locker or are you guys saying the OBA is only dedicated to the lockers system? Just wondering for some future application or need on my end.
Hoby

I have seen all types of failures. First of all, if you are using a regular ARB compressor than you usually don't plan on using it for anything else other than the locker on a regular basis. They are painfully slow for inflating tires and usually don't work at all with air tools (unless maybe you had an air tank). I've seen some people adapt another source of OBA for the lockers, but you usually have to regulate the pressure down.

But back to failures, I've seen compressors stop working in the middle of the trail. Both because the compressor failed mechanically or some electrical component let go. I have also seen internal seals go and lines ripped/broken/burnt. You can usually fix the lines, but you can't realistically pull the diff apart on the trail to fix a seal.

I do agree that both installation and maintenance play a factor in how well the selectable works, but I've seen the guys who are super anal and particuliar about maintenance have issues with ARB's almost as much as the guys who do very little maintenance.

 

[6.2Blazer]

Don't forget how easy Detroits break when you break a shaft or hub

I've seen lots of people break shafts, u-joints, hubs, etc.. with a Detroit and most do NOT break the Detroit when this happens. It can happen, but it's by no means a guarantee. A buddy broke a 35-spline stub in his D60 and the Detroit was fine, then I saw another guy break a 'yota birfield and it took out the Detroit, so it just depends.

 

[juanblzer]

If i had the money... I'd put one in my 14 bolt.

I have one in my front d60 but I wish I had them in both axles.

 

[peterpan]

83 blazer front dana 60 with arb running the small arb compressor
rear 14 bolt detroit locker

works great

 

[Stephen]

I've run auto lockers front and rear, detroit rear and arb front and now arbs front and rear and my take is this:

For nasty road street driving the arbs are really nice, especially the front. In fact, I would consider no other way since a detroit in the front is terrible on bad roads in 4wd.

On road, a detroit rear is typically livable depending on your tolerance for locker feedback and the type of truck it's in. I'm usually fine with the detroit in my sub and didn't have problems with the det. in my K5 as long as I had some rear weight in it. Mixed traction conditions like snow/ice in one wheel track and dry pavement on the other is BAD with the detroit since it drives off the wheel on pavement and when that switches to the other wheel, your steering correction for the yaw switches to the other direction and it can be a handful.

Offroad, there's a lot of stuff you can do with a selectable in front, like turn easily to name one thing. I've used it to hold on nasty side hills, climb ledges without slipping sideways, hold me in place on slippery rocks, etc. Higher speed offroad is way better with the open front also.

Offroad, I haven't seen as much benefit with the arb in the rear as the front but there has been a few time I've used it to do things I couldn't do otherwise.

I haven't had major problems with the ARBs, I run the heavy line kits and route everything nicely so the lines aren't an issue. I periodically replace the relay but it's an unsealed relay in an open vehicle, I need to put in a sealed unit. My wiring harness is from my original install in '98-ish and I've had to re-wire switches (just using toggles now) but otherwise it's been no problem. If you install it well and take reasonable care of the compressor, it'll serve you well.
I have had one compressor crap out and we just plumbed a power tank to pressurize the ARB tank and ran like normal. The new compressors have a higher duty cycle and should last even longer. They're better than nothing for tires but i wouldn't rely on it all the time, at least not with frequent use and big tires.
The seal rings in the diff are not an issue anymore, they're good for 100's of thousands of miles.

If you're nervous about switches and solonoids, run manual pneumatic switches. I think the issue ARB stuff is pretty good.

ARB has been around long enough they have lots of time on their designs, lot of upgrades, lots of dealers to get parts if you do need any, lots of people on the trail with experience with them, etc. Time definitely is an advantage in this case and they've been around for a while.

Hope this helps

 

[noJeepshere]

For nasty road street driving the arbs are really nice, especially the front. In fact, I would consider no other way since a detroit in the front is terrible on bad roads in 4wd.

On road, a detroit rear is typically livable depending on your tolerance for locker feedback and the type of truck it's in. I'm usually fine with the detroit in my sub and didn't have problems with the det. in my K5 as long as I had some rear weight in it. Mixed traction conditions like snow/ice in one wheel track and dry pavement on the other is BAD with the detroit since it drives off the wheel on pavement and when that switches to the other wheel, your steering correction for the yaw switches to the other direction and it can be a handful.

sorry hijack
my dads suburban has a locker in the back and he has yet to use 4wd this winter (even with 8in+ snowfall and unplowed roads) he swears that a locker is the way to go. now ive thought the best setup, in my mind, would be a detroit in the back and a ls in front. gives you extra traction in front without funky handling. i want to put a detroit in back and a ls in front on my yukon. its mostly street driven but sees some offroad use. my 81 that im planning on helping my dad build i want to put a detroit in back and something selectable in front. that will be more offroad driven, except to the trailhead.

hijack off

 

[FRIZZLEFRY]

A selectable locker in a front axle application is the only way to go if you want to be able to make tight turns.I love the ARB in my 60 and will never run anything else.There and no cons to running one.

I run the old style ARB compressor with two solenoids.Should the one solenoid take a dump,I can just switch the line and wires to the other and keep goin.I run a good sealed switch to control mine but the pneumatic switch that Steve mentioned is also a great option.

For a line I run high pressure oil line with reuseable ends.I wouldnt use the blue stuff that comes in the kit.

For the rear to me a Detroit is the only way to go.Even daily driven you learn how to drive with it and not wear out your rear tires.