mrhoes
1/2 ton status
you could find a 6 lug SF14 bolt and you could still keep the stock rims, so you dont have to get new rims and tires, that is what I should have done
CK5
Register an account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members.
Are Heavy Duty Axles necessary?
- Thread starter ThreeBills$
- Start date
Z3PR
Banned
Drive it till you break the axle, then upgrade.
your 30-spline 10 bolt should be fine for 35s or even 37s if you dont beat on it toooo hard... but that rear 10 bolt has got to go. Find a dirt cheap ff14b that already has 4.10 gears. Having a 1-ton rear end is good... even if you totally frag the front axle, you can get the beast home with the rear... which, its safe to say, you'll never break with a stockish engine and 35s/37s.
j
j
primr87
Registered Member
save your money until
i say u keep the 1/2 ton till u get 37s then at least upgrade the rear to a 14ff that way u can buy new 8 lug rims and tires all at the same time
i say u keep the 1/2 ton till u get 37s then at least upgrade the rear to a 14ff that way u can buy new 8 lug rims and tires all at the same time
79chevyk10
1/2 ton status
Just ****in wheel it. 
la_blazer82
1/2 ton status
This is probably a question that I should have asked before I started upgrading my K5. I ended up listening to most who said to go with at least 3/4 ton axles, and ended up swapping in a D44 and 14bff. I'm running 35s, and the money isn't any less, having to re-gear and add a locker. Not to mention that I ended up loosing more clearance than I thought I would under the huge 14b diff.
I'm finally having the gears and locker installed in the 14b (the d44 already came with 4.56 gears). Maybe then, I'll be much more happier!!
If you do decide to swap axles, take your time looking for matching axles (a used 14b with 4.56 and Detroit can be had for $400-500). It will save you tons of cash for new rims (8 lug) and other stuff you'll need, new brake lines, etc. I ended up spending $400 just on a new Detroit.
I'm finally having the gears and locker installed in the 14b (the d44 already came with 4.56 gears). Maybe then, I'll be much more happier!!
If you do decide to swap axles, take your time looking for matching axles (a used 14b with 4.56 and Detroit can be had for $400-500). It will save you tons of cash for new rims (8 lug) and other stuff you'll need, new brake lines, etc. I ended up spending $400 just on a new Detroit.
87BrnRsd
1/2 ton status
I know yall are going to hate me for saying this, but I found a deal of a lifetime on my 14ff. I got a brand new from gm, 14ff with 4.56's and a detroit for $550. Just look around, a used 14ff should be more than $200-$175.la_blazer82 said:
-Harrison
dirtwarrior17
Banned
when you say you got it from gm what do you mean? Cause if they are selling that combo for 550 bucks i want one.
The axle situation is simple... if your gonna go 37's get at least one of the two 14b's under there just remember that if it does come with different gearing then the front 10b, your gonna be hatin it... having the front and rear turn at two different speeds=nothin but breakage and wear. Basically if you swap the rear for a 14b you will probably have to regear the front but it depends on what you can find. If you absolutly know your going to a bigger tire and plan to use them then just upgrade now... why run it till it breaks and your stranded in a fat mudhole with 3 tires?
You will definetly lose clearence but that complaint will go away as soon as you see those 37's sitting on it without wondering if your gonna break an axle not to mention the extra diff clearence... 35's on a 10b will give you less clearence then 37's on a 14 b. the 14sf has better clearence then the ff but isn't as strong(but still beefy as hell)
I used to want to keep my 10bs because of the fact auburn only makes the ected for the 10bs and they cost the same as a detroit but I plan to put a 2 inch body lift on it so i can upgrade to 37's... you can bet i'll be searching for a 14b ff and a cheap d60 at the same time.
The axle situation is simple... if your gonna go 37's get at least one of the two 14b's under there just remember that if it does come with different gearing then the front 10b, your gonna be hatin it... having the front and rear turn at two different speeds=nothin but breakage and wear. Basically if you swap the rear for a 14b you will probably have to regear the front but it depends on what you can find. If you absolutly know your going to a bigger tire and plan to use them then just upgrade now... why run it till it breaks and your stranded in a fat mudhole with 3 tires?
You will definetly lose clearence but that complaint will go away as soon as you see those 37's sitting on it without wondering if your gonna break an axle not to mention the extra diff clearence... 35's on a 10b will give you less clearence then 37's on a 14 b. the 14sf has better clearence then the ff but isn't as strong(but still beefy as hell)
I used to want to keep my 10bs because of the fact auburn only makes the ected for the 10bs and they cost the same as a detroit but I plan to put a 2 inch body lift on it so i can upgrade to 37's... you can bet i'll be searching for a 14b ff and a cheap d60 at the same time.
la_blazer82 said:
this is why you buy a ff14b with the ratio you want. Extra cost for a locker shouldn't be part of the equation because the stock axle didn't have one in it... so getting a locker is a seperate issue unless you decide to add one.
that is what a grinder is for, shave that pig. When you're done, you'll still have a little bit less ground clearance... but bad ground clearance won't get you stranded in the middle of no where a blown up half ton rear end might tho...
j
You're funny. Good luck though. I ended up paying $1,200 for one that was complete lockout to lockout with 4.56's and a trac-lock.dirtwarrior17
Banned
my local junkyard has em at $500
87BrnRsd
1/2 ton status
I may need to re-phrase that a little. I personally didnt get it directly from gm, but the place I got it from did. I bought it from a very very large military supply store in west virginia. They get shipments of all kinds of military goodies. They also repair and re-sale military transport vehicles. They have crates stacked upon crates of new from gm military 14ff's (explains the 4.56 gears and detroit from the factory). The also sell complete from hub to hub D60's from GM, but I think they go for $1450 new. They also have crates upon crates of rockwell 2.5 and 5 tons. Hell, the guy up there said he would sell me a used, but in working condition, rockwell 2.5 ton for $450. I just dont have the fab skills to get it into a K5 so I opted for the 14ff which is plenty strong for my application. Anyways, I know that the 14ff's are new because when I got mine home, I opened it up, and it still had the factory yellow marking compound on the ring gear. I bought that about 2 years ago, so I dont know if the price is still $550, or how many they have now. The guy who owned the place must have been too into military parts and not enough in 4x4 parts not to realize that the detroit in the axle alone costs around $400-$450. When I was there, they let me browse at my leisure through both of their huge warehouses. It was amazing all of the stuff they had there. They had enormous pto winches. Must have been like 50,000lb winches. There was also a big box full of (probably about 200 or more) broken rockwell shafts. Those shafts are beefy, and it looked like they were twisted in half like a hotdog.dirtwarrior17 said:
Anyways, thats how it goes.-Harrison
Wow! NOS from GM complete D60's for $1450, I bet LOT'S of folks would jump on those.
dirtwarrior17 said:
I'll need the number of this yard and the name of the owner. I've been getting quotes of $600 for a complete dana 30 out of a YJ. I'm pretty sure if you get a D60 for $500 it's not gonna be complete or in good shape. I paid a premium for my axle since I didn't want to rebuild one since that gets spendy. It was basically a bolt in affair. It has 4.56's, a trac lok (I didn't really care about that but hey, it came with it), complete lockout to lockout, and only has about 15,000 miles on the whole assembly. Military parts are a wonderful thing. While you can score cheap 60's, $500 for a complete assembly in good shape is an opportunity to make some cash, although it's highly unlikely. End of hijack.
dirtwarrior17
Banned
no... they have half off sales where they say any engine 200 dollars, any axle and so on and so on... you paid big bucks because look what it came with and it was brand new.
ntaj*ep
1/2 ton status
People have their opinions and well you know how the saying goes........Its the people that try to force their opnions down you throat that get to me.
I myself have run an early front Dana 44 and 12 bolt rear with 35" tires for about 10 years. Not alot of breakage, but yes some is going to happen. Its all about how prepared you are (spare parts, tools whatnot) I also have wheeled with some hardcore MoFos from here still running 1/2 ton axles in places like Arizona/Nevada very high traction tight trail kind of terrain. Their upgrades consisted of mostly fuel injection and being totally self sufficant. Lets talk REAL WORLD, will 1 ton stuff be the best damn stuff ever? Will it break and leave you stranded? I for one can tell you first hand I have seen people that can break ANYTHING! Is it stronger that what your running? Sure is but you do not need that kind of beef and the adverse effects they carry at this point, IMO. I think the trend going on here is obscene, you HAVE to have these axles to go over xx" tires or to wheel blah blah. You CAN have fun with what you brung plain and simple
Lots of folks do it and lots of folks still daily drive/weekend warrior their K5s.
I'm now in the process of upgrading my rig to complete 3/4 ton axles (after so many years) I will have the same early style 44 front with upgraded axle shafts, among other things (which came over time) and converted to 8 lug. The rear is a Dana 60 out of a Ford with a disk conversion and really thats about it. My reason for this move is only for the benifit of the full floating rear design, and other slightly beefier parts as I plan to go from my 35s to possibly a 38.5 with bead locked rims. I was worried that the jump in shear tire/wheel weight would just be too much (for me and the K5
) to handle. Also with the eventual jump to 4.56:1 or 4.88:1 I was worried the pinion would get too small to handle the power/weight.
I will also say this at the expense of others picking me apart. 1 ton parts will not make you a good wheeler. That comes with experance and knowing what your rig can handle. Knowing yours and your trucks limitations at given build up points will make you both stronger. If you build up your truck first with no seat time what so ever, well thats just scary. IMO spend your money on things like bumpers, winch, rollcage, things like that and go out and have fun at your current skill level. You will always have time to be the biggest and baddest, just go get dirty.
I myself have run an early front Dana 44 and 12 bolt rear with 35" tires for about 10 years. Not alot of breakage, but yes some is going to happen. Its all about how prepared you are (spare parts, tools whatnot) I also have wheeled with some hardcore MoFos from here still running 1/2 ton axles in places like Arizona/Nevada very high traction tight trail kind of terrain. Their upgrades consisted of mostly fuel injection and being totally self sufficant. Lets talk REAL WORLD, will 1 ton stuff be the best damn stuff ever? Will it break and leave you stranded? I for one can tell you first hand I have seen people that can break ANYTHING! Is it stronger that what your running? Sure is but you do not need that kind of beef and the adverse effects they carry at this point, IMO. I think the trend going on here is obscene, you HAVE to have these axles to go over xx" tires or to wheel blah blah. You CAN have fun with what you brung plain and simple
Lots of folks do it and lots of folks still daily drive/weekend warrior their K5s.I'm now in the process of upgrading my rig to complete 3/4 ton axles (after so many years) I will have the same early style 44 front with upgraded axle shafts, among other things (which came over time) and converted to 8 lug. The rear is a Dana 60 out of a Ford with a disk conversion and really thats about it. My reason for this move is only for the benifit of the full floating rear design, and other slightly beefier parts as I plan to go from my 35s to possibly a 38.5 with bead locked rims. I was worried that the jump in shear tire/wheel weight would just be too much (for me and the K5
) to handle. Also with the eventual jump to 4.56:1 or 4.88:1 I was worried the pinion would get too small to handle the power/weight. I will also say this at the expense of others picking me apart. 1 ton parts will not make you a good wheeler. That comes with experance and knowing what your rig can handle. Knowing yours and your trucks limitations at given build up points will make you both stronger. If you build up your truck first with no seat time what so ever, well thats just scary. IMO spend your money on things like bumpers, winch, rollcage, things like that and go out and have fun at your current skill level. You will always have time to be the biggest and baddest, just go get dirty.
dirtwarrior17
Banned
ntaj*ep said:People have their opinions and well you know how the saying goes........Its the people that try to force their opnions down you throat that get to me.
I myself have run an early front Dana 44 and 12 bolt rear with 35" tires for about 10 years. Not alot of breakage, but yes some is going to happen. Its all about how prepared you are (spare parts, tools whatnot) I also have wheeled with some hardcore MoFos from here still running 1/2 ton axles in places like Arizona/Nevada very high traction tight trail kind of terrain. Their upgrades consisted of mostly fuel injection and being totally self sufficant. Lets talk REAL WORLD, will 1 ton stuff be the best damn stuff ever? Will it break and leave you stranded? I for one can tell you first hand I have seen people that can break ANYTHING! Is it stronger that what your running? Sure is but you do not need that kind of beef and the adverse effects they carry at this point, IMO. I think the trend going on here is obscene, you HAVE to have these axles to go over xx" tires or to wheel blah blah. You CAN have fun with what you brung plain and simple
I'm now in the process of upgrading my rig to complete 3/4 ton axles (after so many years) I will have the same early style 44 front with upgraded axle shafts, among other things (which came over time) and converted to 8 lug. The rear is a Dana 60 out of a Ford with a disk conversion and really thats about it. My reason for this move is only for the benifit of the full floating rear design, and other slightly beefier parts as I plan to go from my 35s to possibly a 38.5 with bead locked rims. I was worried that the jump in shear tire/wheel weight would just be too much (for me and the K5
I will also say this at the expense of others picking me apart. 1 ton parts will not make you a good wheeler. That comes with experance and knowing what your rig can handle. Knowing yours and your trucks limitations at given build up points will make you both stronger. If you build up your truck first with no seat time what so ever, well thats just scary. IMO spend your money on things like bumpers, winch, rollcage, things like that and go out and have fun at your current skill level. You will always have time to be the biggest and baddest, just go get dirty.
kinda controdictory don't you think?
crazy_cooter56
Registered Member
I realize I'm new around here and my thoughts might not mean much, but to me this is a pretty simple thing. If you want to wheel hard and not have much worries about breakage in your drivetrain upgrade, if you just want to get out and wheel and don't mind doing repairs in the middle of a trail then just go play. Do I need a 60? not always, but I want a 60 for when I do need it plain and simple.
The real concern that I have with running too large of wheel/tire combination on a given axle is the liability on the road, not on the trail. Smaller axles have smaller brakes, steering components and wheel bearings, and semi-floating axles have there own concerns. If something breaks on the trail, it’s just you and your vehicle at risk or stuck. If something fails on the road, many innocent people are at risk. If your brakes can’t handle the stopping demands of you big meats, you’re a risk to everyone. If you’re spindly drive axle breaks on your 10 bolt that 125 pounds of wheel and tire could take someone out. My friend had a 31 spline axle break at 70 MPH and it rolled down the highway 500 yards and he almost rolled the truck into oncoming traffic. It scarred his wife, who was with him, into a custom full-floater 9” with disk brakes. I’ve had 35 spline alloy semi-floating axles break off while racing and there is no warning, it just happens. GO FULL-FLOATER!
dirtwarrior17
Banned
the rear is the biggest concern... a front 10b with gears a locker and cromos should do all you need to do for 37's with very little breakage. it depends on what he is going to end up running... 37's are alot for a 1/2 ton axle to handle especially in the rear.
