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argument about the purpose of CV driveshafts

Once again great post.

I already have my pinion angled up from when I had it in my Jeep. Well, now its in the Blazer and I have a differant t-case. But it didnt come with the output yoke/flange.
I would like to keep the driveshafts simple and not run CV joints at all.
If it is a guarantee that it will bind or severly vibrate... I will have to go with the CV. But, I cant seem to get it through my head what the answer is.
 
As far as the front goes.... I get it from one person that I cannt get a non CV style front output yake, but yet someone else says I can.
What gives?

As far as the rear goes... I get both answers that I can and cannot run a standard shaft with my pinion rotated.

The pinion rotation was done by cutting off the spring perches and putting new ones on.
 
I am going to fun a CV because with 56" springs out back I will have alot of flex, plus I want to be able to raise up my t-case up about 1-2" form stock for better ground clearance, the down side is if you ever break a u-joint in a CV it is a pita to replace. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
 
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If I read correctly... having normal u-joints and having the pinion rotated... it will cause a vibration... since the lower joint will always have force...and the upper will only have force 1/2 the time when it is rotating?

I think.

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Yep basicly thats it. Its not realy like it only has force half the time...its more like it has a lower velocity (witch is caused by the changing force) 1/2 the time and a higher velocity the other half.

Got your PM - no problem /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
I'm blue so I can't respond.
 
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the down side is if you ever break a u-joint in a CV it is a pita to replace

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Ball joint press , I will have one in my truck next year . Piece of cake , just mark all the pieces on one side and put em back that way /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
 
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As far as the front goes.... I get it from one person that I cannt get a non CV style front output yake, but yet someone else says I can.
What gives?


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As far as I know, no the factory never had a front non cv shaft....but that doesn't mean that you can't addapt one from another tcase or there isn't a aftermarket one....what t-case do you have?

There is another option /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

On some trucks the front CV has a yoke/cup instead of a yoke/flange. The yoke vershon uses a very similer (or maybe its the same) to the 1310.... So what I did was use a 1310 joint and u-bolt style straps (need to be narrowed by 1/8" or so with the BFH) and bolted it up. The cup needs some grinding to get the angle you can get out of a typical non-cv yoke but it works. I run it on both my DD - stock truck and my wheeler...I'll see if I can find a pic.
 
I just wish I knew if it would cause issues or not in the rear with the pig rotated. I guess there is only one way to find out...

I hate only knowing that it CAN cause vibrations. Or, more likely it WILL cause vibrations... its just a matter of how bad to me. Will I notice it about the already rough ride caused my 8 inch springs and 44 inch tires. And taking into consideration the only time I drive it on the road is when I have to for getting to a trail. Which is usually not very far at all. And at lower speeds.
Or maybe to dinner down the street or something.

I think a guy in my club has a CJ5 that has a little stubby shaft, non CV and his pig is rotated big time. And it drives fine.

The unknown sucks!
 
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The argument was that the only real purpose for a CV shaft is to eliminate vibrations. They dont relaly gain much more angle if any.

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This is true of nearly all CVs. They're for smooth operations, not angle.

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If the vehciel is rarely driven on the street, a CV isnt really needed.

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Depends on your options. I run a CV up front because I don't want to change to a 32 spline output, and my C/V happens to offer more angle than a 1410 non-cv would.

There is no out of box CV that will take more angle than 1410 non-CV. The one I run up front does--but it is from agricultural equipment of some kind and really isn't designed to be a driveshaft. For my use, it does just wonderfully, it's VERY strong, has good angle, and although it requires maintenance that is no problem for a trail rig's front shaft. /forums/images/graemlins/waytogo.gif

Oh, btw, whoever said a CV is hard to fix on the trail was wrong. It's not hard, it's impossible. If you bind and break a CV on the trail you are not fixing it. I broke mine at Real Truck Challenge and I was dead in the water. Me and a friend of mine (mudtruck44 from Pirate, pro rock crawler) had to cut my shaft apart and remove the CV in order for me to compete on Sunday.
 
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I have a GM style 205.

Pictures would be cool.

Thanks
/forums/images/graemlins/waytogo.gif

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30 spline yokes to run a non-cv front ARE available. If you want a 1410, you need to go with a 32 spline front ouput.
 
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The argument was that the only real purpose for a CV shaft is to eliminate vibrations. They dont relaly gain much more angle if any.

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This is true of nearly all CVs. They're for smooth operations, not angle.



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I don't see how this is true. /forums/images/graemlins/dunno.gif With the angle Ihave, If I were to run no CV joint at my t case, I would bust the U joint. With the 32* CV it makes it possible for me to drive. I tihk I just got more lost reading this post. /forums/images/graemlins/doah.gif
 
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The argument was that the only real purpose for a CV shaft is to eliminate vibrations. They dont relaly gain much more angle if any.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is true of nearly all CVs. They're for smooth operations, not angle.



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I don't see how this is true. /forums/images/graemlins/dunno.gif With the angle Ihave, If I were to run no CV joint at my t case, I would bust the U joint. With the 32* CV it makes it possible for me to drive. I tihk I just got more lost reading this post. /forums/images/graemlins/doah.gif

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If you ran a 1410 non-cv, it would vibrate, but it would not bind.
 
It seems as if the reason most people think a CV will handle more angle is because of all of the custom made "high angle" CV setups. The original design of the CV was not to allow more angle, but for vibration issues. It was only after companies started custom making stuff that CV's got the reputation for huge operating angles.

On another topic, Tom Wood's offers the offset 1310 or 1350 u-joint that allows an additional 10 degrees of angle......but it's a little pricey at $60.......

Overall in my opinion, I think you can typically get away with regular u-joints on the driveshafts for a off-road only truck (or very minimal pavement time) as long as the joints don't bind even if the angles don't match.
 
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It seems as if the reason most people think a CV will handle more angle is because of all of the custom made "high angle" CV setups. The original design of the CV was not to allow more angle, but for vibration issues. It was only after companies started custom making stuff that CV's got the reputation for huge operating angles.

On another topic, Tom Wood's offers the offset 1310 or 1350 u-joint that allows an additional 10 degrees of angle......but it's a little pricey at $60.......

Overall in my opinion, I think you can typically get away with regular u-joints on the driveshafts for a off-road only truck (or very minimal pavement time) as long as the joints don't bind even if the angles don't match.

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This is more what I am starting to think. After rmember what my buddies in the CJ5s run as far as angles... and also with the pinion rotated... I should be able to get away with a standard joint and a little TLC with the grinder.

Worst case, I try out that new joint. But, for $60... I will pass on it from the start.
 
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It seems as if the reason most people think a CV will handle more angle is because of all of the custom made "high angle" CV setups. The original design of the CV was not to allow more angle, but for vibration issues. It was only after companies started custom making stuff that CV's got the reputation for huge operating angles.

On another topic, Tom Wood's offers the offset 1310 or 1350 u-joint that allows an additional 10 degrees of angle......but it's a little pricey at $60.......

Overall in my opinion, I think you can typically get away with regular u-joints on the driveshafts for a off-road only truck (or very minimal pavement time) as long as the joints don't bind even if the angles don't match.

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#1 Absolutely true

#2 1410 non cv offers more angle than any of Tom Wood's offset u joints and costs half the price.

#3 As long as they don't pull apart, and the splines are strong enough, any type of 1 ton rated driveline will hold up in this application.
 
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#1 Absolutely true

#2 1410 non cv offers more angle than any of Tom Wood's offset u joints and costs half the price.

#3 As long as they don't pull apart, and the splines are strong enough, any type of 1 ton rated driveline will hold up in this application.

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If it was simple as just picking the 1410 over something else... that would be easy. But, its not. To go to 1410s, I would also have to replace the axle yokes. It all adds up pretty damn fast.

At this time, I have to start thinking about price.

I wonder if the whole 1410 1 ton is more hype than what most of us need. I look back at the big trucks that all my buddies ran. None had 1410s. Not one.

I even look back at that yellow shortbed that was in top truck a few years ago... he welded my cage. He didnt run 1410 on his stuff. Didnt break them. Thats with a 510 BBC pushing mega horsepower. Hell he even ran the 10 spline front output shaft on the 205.
 
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#1 Absolutely true

#2 1410 non cv offers more angle than any of Tom Wood's offset u joints and costs half the price.

#3 As long as they don't pull apart, and the splines are strong enough, any type of 1 ton rated driveline will hold up in this application.

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If it was simple as just picking the 1410 over something else... that would be easy. But, its not. To go to 1410s, I would also have to replace the axle yokes. It all adds up pretty damn fast.

At this time, I have to start thinking about price.

I wonder if the whole 1410 1 ton is more hype than what most of us need. I look back at the big trucks that all my buddies ran. None had 1410s. Not one.

I even look back at that yellow shortbed that was in top truck a few years ago... he welded my cage. He didnt run 1410 on his stuff. Didnt break them. Thats with a 510 BBC pushing mega horsepower. Hell he even ran the 10 spline front output shaft on the 205.

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You don't need to go 1410 unless you need the additional angle over 1350. As long as your angles will never exceed the operational capability of 1350, 1410 isn't going to give you any benefit at all.

Axle yokes aren't as expensive as you think.
 
if you're worried about the cost of diff yokes, dont even bother with CV shafts regardless of their benefits, they are outside your price range.

j
 
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#2 1410 non cv offers more angle than any of Tom Wood's offset u joints and costs half the price.



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I'm was just thinking that before I read your post.......that $60 could go towards a 1410. However, the 1410 u-joint may be half the cost but as Ken stated, you have to also buy the axle yoke and have the driveshaft modified/changed to a 1410. I don't think you could have that done for anywhere near $60????

Tim......what's the cost of the axle and shaft yoke, and a 1410 joint?? I'm guessing a shop would probably charge at least $75 to weld the new yoke on.
 
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I'm guessing a shop would probably charge at least $75 to weld the new yoke on.

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Yokes are not weld on. They bolt on and usually require a little convincing to come off /go back on.

1410 u-joints are just like Tim said. ONLY for increased angles. They have the same cap size as a 1350, the cross is no bigger they are just wider to allow more angle.

In fact I have heard of some truck pull type guys trying them and going back to a 1350 because the extra width of the 1410 made them weaker in their application. ??? Seems to make some sense/not make sense in other areas.
 
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