Auto to Manual swap, regrets?

[chevy_addict]

Great feedback guys, thanks!

I susspect that you may miss having overdrive since your going from a 700r4...

I'm not terribly concerned about losing overdrive, I get crappy mileage in drive and only slightly less crappy mileage in overdrive, the gear splits are a bigger consideration.

Dave

 

[RSNHELL]

If you are sick of an auto and want a manual ,and don't care about the granny low gear. Drop a 4 speed muncie out of a car in there. Shifts quick, good gear spacing ,and advance adapters has the adapters for the T-case.If you want the lower gears too, add the doubler. Just a thought.

 

[Robert79K5]

If you are sick of an auto and want a manual ,and don't care about the granny low gear. Drop a 4 speed muncie out of a car in there. Shifts quick, good gear spacing ,and advance adapters has the adapters for the T-case.If you want the lower gears too, add the doubler. Just a thought.

sacrilege!!!!!!

 

[dyeager535]

Car Muncie's (M20, 21, and 22) are not heavy duty trannies compared to what the trucks had/have, and I expect the usage of one of our trucks would have any one of those begging for mercy in short order, even moreso than the 10 bolt rears. (which also survive in cars)

Even in car applications the weakness of the car Muncie trans is well known, thats why redesigned/improved replacement cases are made.

Back in the day they were great, just like camel hump heads, nowadays, modern pieces are much better in all regards. Leave the M20/21/22 to the restorers.

 

[RSNHELL]

I guess I'm just too old. Yes there are other options,NV4500, Richmond Gear, But not everyone is building a monster rock crawler or mud bogger.When I was in High School I've seen Muncies easily handle 400hp. And If you want a stronger 12 bolt , get it out of a car.

 

[dyeager535]

Car Craft

Change the weight of the vehicle 1-2000lbs more (minimum) and add a small incline, and you can change the "could flex" to "would flex".

Any first gear ratio like the M22's at 2.20:1 in a heavy truck without insane axle ratios, would be horrid to drive.

Not one of GM's manual trannies (that I just looked at on gear ratio charts) has a first gear ratio as bad as the M21/M22 (even the three speeds were 2.5:1, and only the powerglide has worse first gear ratios on the automatic side. 700R4 is 3.06:1 as a point of comparison.

Ask anyone here that had 3.08's and the 465, even with it's "2nd" gear ratio of 3.58:1 it's still painful to get one of these heavy trucks moving.

Not that the Muncie wouldn't have better gear spacing and shift ease, just not designed to live in a truck application.

 

[RSNHELL]

Finally , something that makes sense. GOOD JOB...!

 

[captaininsano]

No regrets! Best mod I did to my rig. Swapped out a TH350/np203 for a Sm465/np205. The rig wheels so much better now. Do IT!

 

[Grieby54]

To all of these weinies griping about the long throws and how difficult it is to get used to... that's a bunch of crap. My first car I owned (my current project) has an SM465/NP205, and I hadn't driven a stick since I was 7 in my grandpa's pasture. I basically had to learn how to drive a stick all over again when I turned 15 because I had forgotten how. Obviously you don't start off in Low... you start off in first, as it IS labelled "L 1 2 3" on mine. As far as a daily driver... I had 3.08 gears and didn't have a bit of a problem driving it around... Great tranny and I wouldn't trade it for a brand new Turbo 400! So if you're looking for stick... this is the one to get.

 

[Grieby54]

Car Craft
Ask anyone here that had 3.08's and the 465, even with it's "2nd" gear ratio of 3.58:1 it's still painful to get one of these heavy trucks moving.
QUOTE]

By the way... maybe you just had a really small engine? Mine had no problem, like I said, 3.08's and an SM465 and I had no problem moving (this is with a bone stock 350).

 

[dyeager535]

I was trying to make a point about the huge difference in 1st gear ratios. You certainly wouldn't argue that low gets you moving easier than 1st, right?

To give some examples:

A 3.08 truck at 10 MPH, 1st gear 465, 33" tires: engine is turning 1120RPM.
Same setup, speed, etc., 2.20 1st gear Muncie, you are turning 689RPM.

Put another way, to get the same acceleration out of the second truck as the first truck, you'd need 5.02:1 rear gears.

OR, a bit more of a stretch, it's similar to the difference between low and 1st in the 465.

NV4500 gives you very similar "get moving" gearing to the 465, while the 27% overdrive would allow some nice increases in axle gearing, (or very similar RPM's depending on what the axle ratio is now with the 700) which means better acceleration AND engine braking. Even with 4.10's the NV4500 allows the engine to spin slower than a 465 with 3.42 rear gears, everything else the same.

Nothing wrong with the 465, as long as you aren't trying to run 70MPH with 4.10's and 29" tires, or don't mind the engine screaming.

 

[Grieby54]

Nothing wrong with the 465, as long as you aren't trying to run 70MPH with 4.10's and 29" tires, or don't mind the engine screaming.

Hahaha... true that... I have 3.08's and 28" tires and she topped out probably close to 90... I got her going 80 at about 4 grand... Now I'm going 4.10's and 35" tires... we'll see how she works!

 

[ccj8008]

Swapped with Caddy 500

I swapped the 465/205 (used $225) for the 350/203 at the same time I swapped in a Caddy 500 for the tired 350. Got all the pedals etc + the tunnel cover for another $60. Since I put in a 2" body lift, I had the linkage rod extended by 2" before installing. The truck was a blast to drive afterwards. No regrets.

 

[75-K5]

I've never done an auto to manual swap, but I've bought/owned plenty of truck with manual transmissions, and still do, including what I think is the only '05 2500HD in existence with a manual. I will never get tired of them and will never go back to an auto unless my left leg falls off or I have a stroke and it's paralyzed. You can't expect it to perform like a T-5 or a Muncie tranny, but it's a truck so it's supposed to shift like a truck. I'd say if you're not lazy then do the swap and never look back. I can't wait until I get that worthless 700r4 out of my Blazer, let my dog take a couple craps on it, and throw it in the scrap pile and swap my 465/d20 into it.

 

[RSNHELL]

I Agree. I Had A Th350 In My Blazer For About 6years And After 2 Rebuilds,cracked Flex Plate, Tranny Leaks And Overheating, I Put The 465 In My Truck,and Couldn't Be Happier. Running 35's With 3.73's Runs Great For Me, For All Around Use.

 

[captaininsano]

I have 3.08 SM465/NP205 and 39.5" IROKs. I start in 1st. Unless I want to do wheelies, then granny.

If you do the swap go with hydro clutch, you can either make up your own or buy a conversion from Novak, much better performance than a z-bar setup.

 

[RootBreaker]

I have 3.08 SM465/NP205 and 39.5" IROKs. I start in 1st. Unless I want to do wheelies, then granny.

If you do the swap go with hydro clutch, you can either make up your own or buy a conversion from Novak, much better performance than a z-bar setup.

hydro clutch... we will see if it is all what it is supposed to be... I am picking up a blazer for $100 with hydro clutch setup... runs too

 

[RSNHELL]

ITS WORTH IT. I HAD THE MECHANICAL LINKAGE IN WHEN I SWITCHED MY TRANNY,AND BENT THE Z-BAR TWO WEEKS LATER. I PUT THE NOVAK KIT ON AND HAVEN'T HAD ANY PROBLEMS.NO MORE BINDING!!!! ALLYOU NEED IS A MASTER CYLINDER FROM AN 85 CHEVY ,RESERVOIR BOTTLE, AND NOVAK KIT. JUST BE AWARE YOU HAVE TO DROP THE TRANNY TO CHANGE THE CLUTCHJ RELEASE FORK. ALSO ADVANCE ADAPTERS HAS A BRACKET SO YOU CAN USE A COMPLETE GM SETUP. NOVAK USES A SLAVE CYLINDER OUT OF A 77-79 LANDCRUISER, WHICH IS A LOT BEEFIER THAN GM'S SLAVE CYLINDER.A HYDRO CLUTCH PEDAL OUT OF AN 85 CHEVY YOU COULD USE OR MODIFY YOUR EXISTING.ALL IN ALL, ITS THE BEST MOD I'VE MADE TO MY TRUCK, BESIDES THE 14BOLT FF.

 

[Grieby54]

I have 3.08 SM465/NP205 and 39.5" IROKs. I start in 1st. Unless I want to do wheelies, then granny.

If you do the swap go with hydro clutch, you can either make up your own or buy a conversion from Novak, much better performance than a z-bar setup.

Holy crap.. I'm bumping my 3.08's up to 4.10's just for 35's and I've got the same set up. How do the 3.08's work out for you? What's pushing it?

and RSNHell... don't write in all caps... it just bugs me, and makes it seem like you're "yelling"

 

[RootBreaker]

NOVAK USES A SLAVE CYLINDER OUT OF A 77-79 LANDCRUISER, WHICH IS A LOT BEEFIER THAN GM'S SLAVE CYLINDER.A .

so after I get all this working.. pulling everything from the Jimmy.... then I want to upgrade (in the future) with a landcruizer cylinder.... COOL!!!