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Axle Hunting on Monday, quick question

1

1985 K10 Warhawk

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Broomfield, CO
Will I see a large dip in performance by switching to heavy duty axles with out swapping or building up the engine first? Do I really need one ton axles? I only intend to do trail riding with a bit of rock crawling and hill climbing. I've not done any serious wheeling yet, so this might change. It seems 3/4 ton axles are everywhere and 1ton axles are a bit more sought after.

Also, what should I be aware of when I am looking at these axles? I don't want to spend 100s on junk!
 
I have no idea if you need tons or not.

Wanna run a front locker with 37s probably want tons

Front locker with 38s your gonna want em

They are heavier but not heavy enough to notice a difference in performance. Also lots of 3/4 ton axles and one tons have deeper gears so it will act peppier by virtue of mechanical advantage.

Watch out for big hub 3/4 ton axles no chevy front 60 had ball joints. If it has ball joints and it came out of a square its a dana 44 or a 10 bolt.

Watch out for incomplete axles it can really add up.

Bring tools enough to pull the cover and verify gear ratio.

The best find is a set out of a cucv it will have a detroit locker stock in the rear and 4.56s
 
I hadn't thought of going that big. Does my rig even need to be that big? I had pondered going to 6' lift with 35s once I swapped out the engine (down the road) Currently I am running 33s on a 4' lift. I hadn't thought to go much bigger. I was just under the impression if I were to find a hefty power house of engine/tranny it will destroy a 1/2 axle quickly. I don't think Ill ever have more then 400 hp (f i ever find my wrecked 05-07 denali)..

This is an 85 suburban btw. I don't know if that changes anything, since its a bit heavier of a vehicle in general.

The chances of me finding a CUCV in the junk yard are pretty next to nil in Denver I'd assume..
 
Nothing wrong with 3/4 tons then. Just keep the front end open, and it will take it. The rear is the same regardless.
 
So not to seriously interject confusion but..........

I am in a similar situation with my daily driver jimmy. More of a mild trail rider rather than an out and out wheeler. I found no need for a full float axle. So I found the full floats baby brother the semifloat 14. It dwarfs the 10 bolt in strength. But I also didn't want to change to8 lug. So I found a 6 lug.

Now the caveat here is that it is not a bolt in. The 6 lug SF only came in 88 and newer trucks.Not a big deal for me its moving perches and shock mounts.

Taking it apart I would have no problem running 38s on it. Locked up and 38s nonetheless.

The full float definately is stronger but you also give up tons of clearance and running relatively small tires clearance is important.

Just another way to go. The sf 14 b also came in 8 lug in squares almost every 4x4 3/4 ton burb you find has an 8 lug sf in it for certain years ( mostly late 80s)

But with your goals a sf 14 b would not be a bad choice. Whether it be 6 or 8 lug the shafts and most everything important are of identical strength.
 
1985 K10 Warhawk said:
I hadn't thought of going that big. Does my rig even need to be that big? I had pondered going to 6' lift with 35s once I swapped out the engine (down the road) Currently I am running 33s on a 4' lift. I hadn't thought to go much bigger. I was just under the impression if I were to find a hefty power house of engine/tranny it will destroy a 1/2 axle quickly. I don't think Ill ever have more then 400 hp (f i ever find my wrecked 05-07 denali)..

This is an 85 suburban btw. I don't know if that changes anything, since its a bit heavier of a vehicle in general.

The chances of me finding a CUCV in the junk yard are pretty next to nil in Denver I'd assume..
Click to expand...
I was saying the same thing years ago. I have broke a couple front axle shafts with a very worn 350 and wasn't on the gas very much at the time. As of a couple weeks ago I have a set of tons in the garage getting ready to go in.
 
If you plan on staying with 33's stock axles will be fine. If you plan on adding lockers, that's where things start breaking.
 
I have ran 35's on a stock front 10 bolt for 10 years now. Only broke a couple of hub locks. On flat ground and backing off of the tow rig. Rear is a locked 9", so no help there. The Jimmy does wheigh 7k pounds.

I have bent 2 front 10 bolts. But at speed with the truck in the air, that is to be expected.
 
Wait til you break something and them upgrade. On 33s you shouldn't have any problems with the stock axles unless you are going crazy on them. Until you step up to jumping or major size tires over 35s you'll be fine.
 
Can I interject another question???

Where do rear D60's stand? I don't see many people using them here but I have one and was thinking about swapping it for my 12 bolt. Then change the D44 front to an 8 lug. Feasible or not so much???
 
chulisohombre said:
Wait til you break something and them upgrade. On 33s you shouldn't have any problems with the stock axles unless you are going crazy on them. Until you step up to jumping or major size tires over 35s you'll be fine.
Click to expand...

What would you upgrade first then? I still plan on trolling the junkyards Monday with a friend. Maybe ill find some comfy seats to swap my worn foam ripped buckets

I just have a very basic lift kit. The folks over at pirate 4x4 stated I need to get an ORD disconnect kit and that I'm basically a fool for still having a sway bar. I do have to drive this thing to the trails, most of the time on the highway.

Every build thread out there seems to be super crazy and so much work done from the start. Frame up and what not.

I suppose I just want the most bang for my buck and if I can't figure it out, run it over to a local shop and have them do it for me.
 
Your first mistake was going to Pirate and asking any questions. Those guys are a bunch of dicks.

As for what you say you use it for, a 14SF would be a good axle and if you don't mind swapping to 8 lug wheels and doing an 8 lug swap in the front, you would have a truck that would most likely last you through whatever you put it through. If you start getting into more intense wheeling and start breaking stuff, then upgrade to the 14FF and D60.
 
izzy1776 said:
Can I interject another question???

Where do rear D60's stand? I don't see many people using them here but I have one and was thinking about swapping it for my 12 bolt. Then change the D44 front to an 8 lug. Feasible or not so much???
Click to expand...

In my opinion, the semi floating 60 rear and the 14SF are pretty close. The full floater 60 I would put a bit ahead of the SF 14, but much behind the 14FF. If you have one already that is a matching or close to matching width and can get the spring perches relocated and make the parking brake cable work go for it. I have seen a couple guys on here use them, just not a lot since the 14FF is so cheap and bolt in in the right configuration.
 
I run 37's on a set of 3/4 tons. I am locked in the back and open in the front. I recently did the swap in March. In the 3-4 trips I have been on, I have had no issues with the rear 14BSF or the 10 bolt up front. It may be a matter of time, but I say go with what everyone else has said and find a semifloater and run it till it pukes.
 
Not much really. See if it turns over, whether free or not. Pull the cover and check fluid and ratio, maybe get lucky and get a Powerlok or Tracklok. As for a 60 in your area, forget in less you wanna spend a couple grand. I lived there for a bit, and not one in a yard, and when they showed up in clist they were stupidly overpriced. But I'd think you'd be fine with 3/4 tons...that link is a rear 60HD....
 
If I was looking at that the first thing I'd check is compatibility (spring width, shock mounts, WMS-WMS distance, at the bare minimum).

I'm not inclined to think that this is a bolt-in axle. Spring perches may or may not be right (and it looks like they've been moved once already), but the shock mounts (if they're present, I can't see the front side) aren't the forward/backwards pair that Chevy used. So the shocks, at the least aren't right. May or may not be important to you (myself and countless others on here started with "wrong" axles and moved perches to make things fit). But you do want to know how much needs to be "fixed" before you decide to buy it.

Also check in to how easily the brakes are changed. Those drums appear to be behind the hub (like an early 14BFF). I'm not sure if you have experience with that style of drum brakes, but they are a hassle to work on in stock form. Because the hub and drum are attached, they must both be removed if you want to service the brakes. Can be a real headache. Lots of folks switch to disc brakes, others (like me) simply grab a later-model 14BFF (with the drum outside of the hub) to avoid this problem.

Those are the thoughts that jumped out at me first. Are you wanting an 8-lug axle or a 6-lug axle ideally?
 
One more (seems obvious, but I actually didn't think of it until I re-read the ad). Check the lug-nut spacing and hub size. Should be compatible, but it's worth checking. I screwed up on hub-size once because I assumed that 6-lug Chevy is 6-lug Chevy. Turns out that's not true, and it turned into a headache. :doah:
 
I've no real preference other then I have new meat/wheels already in a 6 lug.

The guy ended up flaking on me as i was driving to see it. Just went unresponsive. Oh well. Seems like I wouldn't have known at the time it was wrong for me any how!

So, talk to me about gearing. What is going to be ideal? I have looked at the gearing to tire size ratio charts out there, but I do a lot of mountain driving with the truck and I am being lead to believe it's a gearing issue, not a lack of power from a tired 350 issue.



Once I hit a steep grade like the pass heading to vail/grand junction from Denver, I can't break 40 MPH in a 75 MPH zone.
 
1985 K10 Warhawk said:
I've no real preference other then I have new meat/wheels already in a 6 lug.
Click to expand...

Being set up for 6-lug, why not get a 6-lug 14bsf as described above? They are found in cargo vans and heavy-half-ton trucks, and would give you the strength you desired without losing your lug pattern. Handy, if you ask me. :)

1985 K10 Warhawk said:
The guy ended up flaking on me as i was driving to see it. Just went unresponsive. Oh well. Seems like I wouldn't have known at the time it was wrong for me any how!
Click to expand...

No particular reason that you have to use the "right" axle. Lots of us use "wrong" axles, we just had to work a little bit to make them fit. I just didn't want you to think you were getting a bolt-in replacement.

1985 K10 Warhawk said:
So, talk to me about gearing. What is going to be ideal? I have looked at the gearing to tire size ratio charts out there, but I do a lot of mountain driving with the truck and I am being lead to believe it's a gearing issue, not a lack of power from a tired 350 issue.

Once I hit a steep grade like the pass heading to vail/grand junction from Denver, I can't break 40 MPH in a 75 MPH zone.
Click to expand...

A 6-lug Suburban, IIRC, should have a 700R4 O/D tranny (lemme know if you have something odd-ball). 3.42 is a fine gear ratio for this, but you will be pretty slow with the 33" tires. I'm betting the CK5 consensus will be to recommend that you get 4.10 gearing for your current configuration. Being a fairly patient driver, my answer would be 3.73 gears.

Switching to 35" tires I'd change gearing down another notch (4.10 or 4.56, depending on your driving style). That should give you LOADS more available power, solving your 40MPH problem. If not, we'll recommend engine upgrades! :D

Axle upgrading is a *great* time to switch up your gearing, as you can get your new axle with your new ratio. So play around with your gearing numbers, figure out what you want, and then go shopping! :waytogo:

As said above, you may find lower gearing more widely available in 1-ton axles, but they do exist in 1/2-ton and 3/4-ton configurations. And having a 10-bolt front, it's easy as pie to change the lug pattern if you decide to go 8-lug. :)
 
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