badmix
1/2 ton status
If they are 12 volt batteries then it's triple voltage (36 volts).
YESSSSSSSSSSS!!! I realize that. We use 3 batts at work, but for my application Ill just use 2, that is why I had "double up" on the brain, lol
CK5
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batteries - relocating to the rear and doubling up
- Thread starter mudbuggy
- Start date
YESSSSSSSSSSS!!! I realize that. We use 3 batts at work, but for my application Ill just use 2, that is why I had "double up" on the brain, lol
FWIW, I agree with almost your every reason for moving the batteries.
Actually, I agree with all, except that replacing the battery boxes is much easier fixed.
On my old Jeep, I fixed it by finding some battery caps off an old Chevy van.
They had the battery inside the cab, so the caps were sealed with small plastic tubes running outside.
That stopped the corrosion in my Jeep.
Not doable these days. Most batteries do not have vent caps like the old ones.
So, after I put the third battery box in my Ford truck, I found I needed a battery.
I went to my local battery store, and happened to mention my box problems.
They showed me a AGM battery. It was an Odyssey.
That is one nice battery. More cranking amps than what it replaced, and no more corrosion.
Its a shame you already have good batteries. Those are worth the cost.
Check around here, there are pictures of K5ers who have mounted them, or some like them, sideways on their firewall.
Nothing wrong with it, but it just looks strange to see a battery laying on its side hanging off the wall.
Actually, I agree with all, except that replacing the battery boxes is much easier fixed.
On my old Jeep, I fixed it by finding some battery caps off an old Chevy van.
They had the battery inside the cab, so the caps were sealed with small plastic tubes running outside.
That stopped the corrosion in my Jeep.
Not doable these days. Most batteries do not have vent caps like the old ones.
So, after I put the third battery box in my Ford truck, I found I needed a battery.
I went to my local battery store, and happened to mention my box problems.
They showed me a AGM battery. It was an Odyssey.
That is one nice battery. More cranking amps than what it replaced, and no more corrosion.
Its a shame you already have good batteries. Those are worth the cost.
Check around here, there are pictures of K5ers who have mounted them, or some like them, sideways on their firewall.
Nothing wrong with it, but it just looks strange to see a battery laying on its side hanging off the wall.
mudbuggy
1/2 ton status
Well I thought it was going to good for being a Monday, got to the parts shop and looked at the cs-144. There is now way that it is a bolt up deal. Took it out to the truck and yep there is no way that it just bolts up. And it doesn't so I guess I'm going to run with the cs-130 for now, and see if there is upgrade kit for it. I am almost done with the weldenator mount in the factory air pump location, worse case, I can mount a 12 si there and charge the second set of batteries from the weldernator only after a very hard draw or when both of the winches were used for a long time.
Good news that I got from the electrical shop was that they had the plug and led light that I wanted for the idiot light for the alternator when it decides to die. Total for the plug ac delco bag and a cole hersee led light was just over 12 bucks, don't have the part numbers with me right now, if you need them just let me know. Found a wiring schematic from a truck I built years ago, so all I have to do is put it together. Great, heat index is at 105 degrees and all I have to do is crawl around on a hot engine for an hour or two after cutting with a torch in this heat all day outside. I might just wait for a day or two and do some more 'research online for alternator upgrades'. Yea that's what I'm into, I'm wussing out today! Murphy you win, but I'll give you a run for your money again tomorrow!!!
Good news that I got from the electrical shop was that they had the plug and led light that I wanted for the idiot light for the alternator when it decides to die. Total for the plug ac delco bag and a cole hersee led light was just over 12 bucks, don't have the part numbers with me right now, if you need them just let me know. Found a wiring schematic from a truck I built years ago, so all I have to do is put it together. Great, heat index is at 105 degrees and all I have to do is crawl around on a hot engine for an hour or two after cutting with a torch in this heat all day outside. I might just wait for a day or two and do some more 'research online for alternator upgrades'. Yea that's what I'm into, I'm wussing out today! Murphy you win, but I'll give you a run for your money again tomorrow!!!
Last edited:
mudbuggy
1/2 ton status
update with part numbers and pics (of course). Well it cooled off enough to replace a circuit breakerl. and to run a better wire to and from the breaker to the bus bar. So I did both. I have probably replaced 3 circuit breakers, not because of load, but because of heat and their location. There's another reason to move the equipment to the rear of the truck. Cooler operating temperatures, less replacement due to heat fatigue.
On my way home as I just hit the highway I lost the fans and the amps. The ac was still engaged. That told me that I lost the main circuit breaker to the bus bar. I have had to do it before, but when I did it before I didn't know why. I took the first one in to Van's to have it tested. It also was a 100 amp breaker, they concluded that it was due to heat fatigue and gave me a new replacement because of how much business my company and I do with them. So tonight I knew why.
Pics
First is the new stuff
2 is the led and part number
3 is the pigtail and part number
4 is the craftman tester and the power probe 3 portable tester - each hooked up to a battery after I reset the charge wire to the ds battery and changed size of the circuit breaker wire (to and from) it.
On my way home as I just hit the highway I lost the fans and the amps. The ac was still engaged. That told me that I lost the main circuit breaker to the bus bar. I have had to do it before, but when I did it before I didn't know why. I took the first one in to Van's to have it tested. It also was a 100 amp breaker, they concluded that it was due to heat fatigue and gave me a new replacement because of how much business my company and I do with them. So tonight I knew why.
Pics
First is the new stuff
2 is the led and part number
3 is the pigtail and part number
4 is the craftman tester and the power probe 3 portable tester - each hooked up to a battery after I reset the charge wire to the ds battery and changed size of the circuit breaker wire (to and from) it.
I use my power probe 3 at least a couple times a week, it's perfect for marine work..
mudbuggy
1/2 ton status
I keep mine at home. All of my guys will 'borrow' it. Did that with the pp2. Think I have one or two pieces in the case, everything else 'fell out or grew legs'!
DEMON44
Low-Tech Redneck
Bolt on. You think the 180 amp leese neville I robbed off a peterbilt is bolt on. Pfft.
Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk
mudbuggy
1/2 ton status
Well I might need to revisit this idea depending on two things. 1. How long is the warranty? and 2. Does it come with new front springs? Just kidding. I probably have 6 of those same alternators of the shelf in my parts room. Damn good pieces of equipment, just not worth the effort to mount up on my motor. Thank you again for the offer.
mudbuggy
1/2 ton status
Well got the pads made. Used an old mud flap cut to the same size as the bottom of each battery. Nothing special but it does have a purpose. First to allow the battery box to be bolted down and the battery not sit on the head of the bolts, possibly rupturing the case. Secondly, if there is a lot of jarring I don't break a plate loose in the battery
There is another reason that I want to do this relocation. I wanted to show that a person doesn't habve to throw gobs of money and equipment at it for this to work. The most expensive thing I'll get for this gig is the cable and half of that I already own. You don't have use top of the line gear for a reliable system. Just remember our warfighters are doing their duty with equipment produced from the lowest bidder!
P.S. Think I got the upload thing finally figured out with the blackberry, dodged Murphy's bullet on that one!
There is another reason that I want to do this relocation. I wanted to show that a person doesn't habve to throw gobs of money and equipment at it for this to work. The most expensive thing I'll get for this gig is the cable and half of that I already own. You don't have use top of the line gear for a reliable system. Just remember our warfighters are doing their duty with equipment produced from the lowest bidder!
P.S. Think I got the upload thing finally figured out with the blackberry, dodged Murphy's bullet on that one!
TheWarbeast
Registered Member
Very interesting idea. I have wanted dual batteries in my Suburban for a while now. Going to follow along for ideas.
mudbuggy
1/2 ton status
Thoughts and ideas are welcome just think of my truck as the primary victim!
mudbuggy
1/2 ton status
update - the little things make it so much easier
Been pretty busy at my shop, between work and trying to keep cool, I haven't gotten a lot accomplished. A week ago it was 82 degrees overnight, its been breaking 90 by 9 in the morning, don't know about any of you but this **** crazy, I hate Indiana humidity, I wish I was in California! The heat index is sticking around 115 or so, I think one night next week is suppose to get below 80, oh **** a cold spell, break out the snow plows!!!
I have however gotten the majority of the small parts made and home where I can paint them in peace, and not have one of my guys walk up, pick up a piece with fresh paint on it and ask me 'what's this? and why is the paint still wet?'. Gotta love'm, but damn mechanics can be stupid, got all of the mechanical knowledge in the world locked up between their ears, but they can't figure out why a part is wet and why the color is coming off on their hands! Then again, they can't tell they have paint on their dick skinners cause of all the grease and dirt! Oh well, they all are handy and I am proud to be able to work with them!!!
Pics:
Battery tie downs
Isolator brackets
Temporary battery side tie down
Tie down adapter
Battery tray end plates
Up next is to figure the size of wire ends and to start figuring out how I'm going to get the cables ran around the truck. I've been leaning toward mounting the isolator on top of the ds whell well, then running the cable back to the batteries from there, probably mounting it on the wall, not letting it lay on the floor. From the alternator to the isolator I think I'm going to punch a hole in the floorboard just behind the rear seat on the ds wall area, run across the crossmember, then mount it on the frame rail up to the dog house and up to the alternator. For the starter wire I think I will run the same way, except it will start at the 78 batteries. For grounds, each will have it's own ground to body, then a single body to frame strap. I'll replace the front ground wire with a ground strap and probably upsize that a size or two. When I redo the frame ground strap I am going to weld a stainless bolt to the frame then install the strap, problem is that I really don't know where I am going to mount it, and I really don't like removing ss bolts with a grinder, it takes forever! So I think I'll puss out of the heat this week and just focus on the layout of this stuff after it gets dark, and it goes below 90 degrees!!!
I sent out questions to some gentlemen asking each of them, because I see each of them as experts in their specific fields if in their day they happen across some specific situations of they could take a snapshot of that area and send it to me. Well as of now all but one man has come across those specific areas that I am asking for visual details of. I'm starting to think that it might just be a good idea to 'box' in the complete area on the ds for 'electrical service'. I know in the future that I will be adding a relay housing in the rear and a distribution point for power. Maybe add in a housing for the rear speaker, and on the other side just match it demensionally and make the ps a full time tool box. I still have the slider to put in the rear, like this, http://www.myhotsuburban.com/Bedsli...de-Truck-Bed-Cargo-Slider-_-SUV5150CG/561070/
difference is that mine is purpose built for me and the dimensions that I want it to encompass. I also need to make an access cover for the fuel tank, so I can reach the fuel pump if need be. The rear body mounts need to be replaced in the rear, soundproofing, insulation, and carpeting all before I can install it. The point of doing all of this first is so if I do need to get to the fuel pump I just extend the slider, pop the hatch and I'm pulling the fuel pump. I can't stand dropping a tank to work on a pump, or to change a strainer!!!
As always, all thoughts welcome!!!
Been pretty busy at my shop, between work and trying to keep cool, I haven't gotten a lot accomplished. A week ago it was 82 degrees overnight, its been breaking 90 by 9 in the morning, don't know about any of you but this **** crazy, I hate Indiana humidity, I wish I was in California! The heat index is sticking around 115 or so, I think one night next week is suppose to get below 80, oh **** a cold spell, break out the snow plows!!!
I have however gotten the majority of the small parts made and home where I can paint them in peace, and not have one of my guys walk up, pick up a piece with fresh paint on it and ask me 'what's this? and why is the paint still wet?'. Gotta love'm, but damn mechanics can be stupid, got all of the mechanical knowledge in the world locked up between their ears, but they can't figure out why a part is wet and why the color is coming off on their hands! Then again, they can't tell they have paint on their dick skinners cause of all the grease and dirt! Oh well, they all are handy and I am proud to be able to work with them!!!
Pics:
Battery tie downs
Isolator brackets
Temporary battery side tie down
Tie down adapter
Battery tray end plates
Up next is to figure the size of wire ends and to start figuring out how I'm going to get the cables ran around the truck. I've been leaning toward mounting the isolator on top of the ds whell well, then running the cable back to the batteries from there, probably mounting it on the wall, not letting it lay on the floor. From the alternator to the isolator I think I'm going to punch a hole in the floorboard just behind the rear seat on the ds wall area, run across the crossmember, then mount it on the frame rail up to the dog house and up to the alternator. For the starter wire I think I will run the same way, except it will start at the 78 batteries. For grounds, each will have it's own ground to body, then a single body to frame strap. I'll replace the front ground wire with a ground strap and probably upsize that a size or two. When I redo the frame ground strap I am going to weld a stainless bolt to the frame then install the strap, problem is that I really don't know where I am going to mount it, and I really don't like removing ss bolts with a grinder, it takes forever! So I think I'll puss out of the heat this week and just focus on the layout of this stuff after it gets dark, and it goes below 90 degrees!!!
I sent out questions to some gentlemen asking each of them, because I see each of them as experts in their specific fields if in their day they happen across some specific situations of they could take a snapshot of that area and send it to me. Well as of now all but one man has come across those specific areas that I am asking for visual details of. I'm starting to think that it might just be a good idea to 'box' in the complete area on the ds for 'electrical service'. I know in the future that I will be adding a relay housing in the rear and a distribution point for power. Maybe add in a housing for the rear speaker, and on the other side just match it demensionally and make the ps a full time tool box. I still have the slider to put in the rear, like this, http://www.myhotsuburban.com/Bedsli...de-Truck-Bed-Cargo-Slider-_-SUV5150CG/561070/
difference is that mine is purpose built for me and the dimensions that I want it to encompass. I also need to make an access cover for the fuel tank, so I can reach the fuel pump if need be. The rear body mounts need to be replaced in the rear, soundproofing, insulation, and carpeting all before I can install it. The point of doing all of this first is so if I do need to get to the fuel pump I just extend the slider, pop the hatch and I'm pulling the fuel pump. I can't stand dropping a tank to work on a pump, or to change a strainer!!!
As always, all thoughts welcome!!!
sorry i haven't gotten back to you.. things have been hectic, and 108...
as to boat battery boxes. basically you come across 3 things.. cheesy black plastic individual ones..
more expensive, sealed, vented units...
and custom boxes, built per app/model....
as i mentioned in my original post, imo that area would be very easy to do a nice large enclosure with a removable panel... material of your choice, steel, fiberglassed wood, paper mache, etc... it could easily be designed to incorporate some other components such as the diode, etc..
as to boat battery boxes. basically you come across 3 things.. cheesy black plastic individual ones..
more expensive, sealed, vented units...
and custom boxes, built per app/model....
as i mentioned in my original post, imo that area would be very easy to do a nice large enclosure with a removable panel... material of your choice, steel, fiberglassed wood, paper mache, etc... it could easily be designed to incorporate some other components such as the diode, etc..
mudbuggy
1/2 ton status
Thanks man, yea I was afraid of that, but **** happens. I'll figure something out. Just was hoping that I wouldn't have to turn up the brain to high speed would be able to 'copy' an existing design. Guess it's all for the best. Thanks again.
badmix
1/2 ton status
Here is what I came up with for my Expedition Trailer I'm building.
The batteries are deep cycle type.
The batteries are deep cycle type.
89GMCK5
1/2 ton status
Cs144
The CS144 should literally bolt on. There are a couple different models and bolt patterns I believe though. The one that fits our trucks is referred to the "2 inch 2 foot" or vice versa. It has the 2 mounting ears at about 5:00 and 7:00 positions, I think the only modification is you will have to "drill" out the sleeve in one ear, 3 minutes of work.
I have been looking at upgrading and am going to do so soon. There are some good threads out there with info. I found out about the bolt patterns on the CS144's searching on line alternator shops.
IMO if your are doing all of this work, you will need the CS144. It is much more reliable than the CS130 series and much more resistant to heat degradation due to higher amp loads.
The CS144 should literally bolt on. There are a couple different models and bolt patterns I believe though. The one that fits our trucks is referred to the "2 inch 2 foot" or vice versa. It has the 2 mounting ears at about 5:00 and 7:00 positions, I think the only modification is you will have to "drill" out the sleeve in one ear, 3 minutes of work.
I have been looking at upgrading and am going to do so soon. There are some good threads out there with info. I found out about the bolt patterns on the CS144's searching on line alternator shops.
IMO if your are doing all of this work, you will need the CS144. It is much more reliable than the CS130 series and much more resistant to heat degradation due to higher amp loads.
badmix
1/2 ton status
Uhm..what?!?
mudbuggy
1/2 ton status
badmix- Nice setup, I like it. Glad it fits for your trailer, won't fit in my area.
89gmck5 - actually the cs-144 is the upgrade for the 12si alternator. My rig had the cs-130 alternator from the factory. There is no upgrade for my setup unless I do two things, one, change the brackets, or two, upgrade the standard alternator to a supercharged alternator. Um, I think I'll take option three. Mount up a supercharged 12si! I'll use the 12si to charge the 31 series batteries after I get the bugs out of the system, for now I will use the cs-130 for the time being until I can split the system. I think!?! Well it at least sounds good in theory!!!
89gmck5 - actually the cs-144 is the upgrade for the 12si alternator. My rig had the cs-130 alternator from the factory. There is no upgrade for my setup unless I do two things, one, change the brackets, or two, upgrade the standard alternator to a supercharged alternator. Um, I think I'll take option three. Mount up a supercharged 12si! I'll use the 12si to charge the 31 series batteries after I get the bugs out of the system, for now I will use the cs-130 for the time being until I can split the system. I think!?! Well it at least sounds good in theory!!!
mudbuggy
1/2 ton status
mounted a few things
I got a an hour last night to play in the truck for a bit. I painted the isolator brackets, and mounted the isolator to it, then into the truck. Got the wall bracket installed and the mock batteries into a close position. Made a check that the door can close with the batteries in place, figured I'd just leave them in there just in case I have a minute and can pop open the rear doors and take another look at the mount.
After this my wife had dinner ready so I went in and ate, but little did I know that while I was in eating there was a flash rain storm, which cooled it off about 20 degrees. So when I got done eating, I went out to start messing with the wiring.
First off I had to figure out the alternator warning light, I then told myself I needed to locate where I am to tie in the excitation circuit of the isolator. Third I wanted to get the charge wire cut to length and the primary loom wrap on. Well I got all of those goals accomplished. Here's the pics.
I'll have more later, as always comments and thoughts are welcome!
I got a an hour last night to play in the truck for a bit. I painted the isolator brackets, and mounted the isolator to it, then into the truck. Got the wall bracket installed and the mock batteries into a close position. Made a check that the door can close with the batteries in place, figured I'd just leave them in there just in case I have a minute and can pop open the rear doors and take another look at the mount.
After this my wife had dinner ready so I went in and ate, but little did I know that while I was in eating there was a flash rain storm, which cooled it off about 20 degrees. So when I got done eating, I went out to start messing with the wiring.
First off I had to figure out the alternator warning light, I then told myself I needed to locate where I am to tie in the excitation circuit of the isolator. Third I wanted to get the charge wire cut to length and the primary loom wrap on. Well I got all of those goals accomplished. Here's the pics.
I'll have more later, as always comments and thoughts are welcome!
mudbuggy
1/2 ton status
More Hardware.
Well I'm getting closer and closer. Picked up the starter cable, installed the correct lug and a shrinkwrap cover on that end. Also picked up a power supply point, don't know if I will use it but for 12 bucks I brought it home to think about it. Probably will go with a bus bar set up since I have so many of them and they are all self reset set ups all I have tro do is remove the power for a second and it resets. Oh yeah, I picked up a soleniod for the starter cable so I will only have the hot wire from the alternator as a live wire, the starter will only be hot when the starter is starting the truck. I think I'm pushing my luck with 2 hot wires all of the time running the complete length of the vehicle. I'll see how much room I have for now, because when I install the 12si to charge the group 31 batteries, I will in fact have 2 hot wires from front to back. Just need to think about it. But the more I think about it, that might not be a bad thing either, I can tie the blower motors (front and rear) and anything else I want to tie into the group 31 batteries straight to the alternator charge wire. Just need to figure out were to mount it up at and then lug off the wire at the distribution block then put another lug on the other side of the distribution block and continue running to the alternator. That reminds me I need to make a bracket to adjust the 12 si alternator tomorrow, or at least start it, **** forgot to take measurements for the battery box, might get that done if I don't have to tig all day tomorrow. That's all for now, nope not all, pics. Yep that is all, and as always all thoughts and comments are welcome.
Well I'm getting closer and closer. Picked up the starter cable, installed the correct lug and a shrinkwrap cover on that end. Also picked up a power supply point, don't know if I will use it but for 12 bucks I brought it home to think about it. Probably will go with a bus bar set up since I have so many of them and they are all self reset set ups all I have tro do is remove the power for a second and it resets. Oh yeah, I picked up a soleniod for the starter cable so I will only have the hot wire from the alternator as a live wire, the starter will only be hot when the starter is starting the truck. I think I'm pushing my luck with 2 hot wires all of the time running the complete length of the vehicle. I'll see how much room I have for now, because when I install the 12si to charge the group 31 batteries, I will in fact have 2 hot wires from front to back. Just need to think about it. But the more I think about it, that might not be a bad thing either, I can tie the blower motors (front and rear) and anything else I want to tie into the group 31 batteries straight to the alternator charge wire. Just need to figure out were to mount it up at and then lug off the wire at the distribution block then put another lug on the other side of the distribution block and continue running to the alternator. That reminds me I need to make a bracket to adjust the 12 si alternator tomorrow, or at least start it, **** forgot to take measurements for the battery box, might get that done if I don't have to tig all day tomorrow. That's all for now, nope not all, pics. Yep that is all, and as always all thoughts and comments are welcome.
