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BBC upper end oil issues and noises

Leadfoot

Leadfoot

1/2 ton status
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Nov 28, 2000
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Location
Western Massachusetts
Background:
I bought a BBC from a member here a couple years ago. Transaction went great and everything was packaged/shipped nicely.

His brother built the motor and gave me several specs on it and said it was running great when he took it out.

The engine sat on my engine stand for over a year (priming oil pump and turning over once every month or two with an occasional squirt of oil in the cylinders and replacing the plugs).

I took the engine and put new tins on it with new oil pump, with matching pickup, and pan (Milodon), then installed a new timing chain and gear set (Edlebrock) even though the old one looked brand new and was tight. I put a matching SFI flywheel and SFI balancer (Rattler) on as well as new intake and carb, and GM Performance parts Serpentine drive.

I primed the motor for 15 minutes with a drill and then installed. Right from the first revolution I could hear a noise in the motor. I ran it up and down a trailer (to the exhaust shop) and in and out of the garage but no more as I did not like the sound.

This past weekend a buddy of mine pulled the valve covers and tried readjusting the rockers hoping that was the noise (thanks to another CK5 member for a set of old valve covers I cut up for catching oil). One thing we noticed were that several rocker arms were not getting oil and one rocker arm nut was different (not a big deal on the nut). The passenger's side seemed to be getting more oil to the rear arms while the driver's side seemed to get more to the front. The oil pressure gauge read 62+psi consistently (10W30 dino oil). The block has a cam oiler equipped in the lifter valley and we could see the cam getting plenty of oil through the holes the head.

The noise definitely seems to be lifter/rocker noise. My question is would stuck/sticky lifters cause oil to not reach the top end? My buddy thinks that is the problem, but I'm not sure. I asked him how a stuck lifter would differ from a solid lifter. A solid lifter still gets oil up to the top end with no "pumping" of the lifter.

My plan is to replace the lifters with new ones (and install hardened pushrods, guide plates, and roller rockers), but am I on the right track? I don't want to put it back together to find out the lifters weren't the cause of the lack of oil to the top end. Anyone know the flow of oil in a BBC and how much the hydraulic lifters affect oil reaching the top end?

Sorry for the long post, but I would like to get this motor going after all the $$$ I spent on it.
 
Do you know what year the BBC is. Some older ones had to have the rear of the cam bearing journal grooved to "feed" the upper part of the motor. If it did not have this the motor would damage itself. This happened to me when I got a 396 from someone who said it "ran fine". It grenade in the first 5 minutes (it was in a Jet Boat). I took it apart and did some searching and found the cam that was in it was not grooved and it was supposed to be.Again this is for older blocks I think 68- up did away with this.
Thanks.
T.J.
www.tjsperformance.com
 
TJS said:
Do you know what year the BBC is. Some older ones had to have the rear of the cam bearing journal grooved to "feed" the upper part of the motor. If it did not have this the motor would damage itself. This happened to me when I got a 396 from someone who said it "ran fine". It grenade in the first 5 minutes (it was in a Jet Boat). I took it apart and did some searching and found the cam that was in it was not grooved and it was supposed to be.Again this is for older blocks I think 68- up did away with this.
Thanks.
T.J.
www.tjsperformance.com
Click to expand...

Forgot to mention it's a 454. I have to look at the casting number again, but I believe it's a 74 (2 bolt main).

Nice site you have. Where in CT are you located (the "click here for directions" link does not work)? Also I see you have a diagram for dual batteries. Have you hooked them up yet? If so, how's it work?

Thanks
 
Does is run Ok other than the noise. If the lifters aren't primed it would run pretty rough, and not get oil to the top end.
 
76zimmer said:
Does is run Ok other than the noise. If the lifters aren't primed it would run pretty rough, and not get oil to the top end.
Click to expand...

It seems to run OK (no heavy skip), just alot of "clacking" and several rockers not getting much oil.
 
as long as its not lower end noise let it run for a while sometimes lifters that sit for a while without being run could take quite a while to pump up
 
hate to tell you this. but those cam oiler kits require a high volume pump to work the best. the stock style pump wont flow the amount of oil needed. i have the same kit and instrutions.
 
sweetk30 said:
hate to tell you this. but those cam oiler kits require a high volume pump to work the best. the stock style pump wont flow the amount of oil needed. i have the same kit and instrutions.
Click to expand...

This was the pump I installed along with matching pickup and pan.

Shouldn't that be enough, or do I need a different pump?




MIL-18760

$67.88
Estimated Ship Date: Tomorrow
r_dt_left.gif
r_dt_overview.gif
Application Show All
r_dt_right.gif
Brand:Milodon, Inc.Product Line:Milodon High Volume/High Pressure Oil Pumps
Oil Pump Style: Wet sump
Oil Pump Volume: High volume
Oil Pump Pressure: High pressure
High Pressure Oil Pump Spring Included: Yes
Pickup Included: No
Hardened Drive Shaft Recommended: Yes
Oil Pump Drive Shaft Included: No
Dry Sump Pulley Included: No
Dry Sump Belt Included: No
Dry Sump Mounting Brackets Included: No
Hardware Included: No
Gaskets Included: No
Quantity: Sold individually
 
o.k. you have a hv pump. didnt say that before so i wanted to say it just in case. sorry me no can help anymore.
 
The only things I can think of is

1. An oil gallery is partially blocked with something
2. The valve springs are bad, or not shimmed to the proper PSI (which would cause # 3)
3. The push rods tips for rockers that are not oiling good are galled

If you can easily spin any of the valve springs with your finger tips, then there is a problem with your valve springs.
 
Pull the pushrods on the valves that are skimpy on oil. Try running a piece of wire thru them, then some carb cleaner. First look thru them, if no can see thru, def have a problem. I tried to send a pic of oiling system, but the file is too big, and I'm too dumb to know how to reduce it.
 
3 on the tree said:
Pull the pushrods on the valves that are skimpy on oil. Try running a piece of wire thru them, then some carb cleaner. First look thru them, if no can see thru, def have a problem. I tried to send a pic of oiling system, but the file is too big, and I'm too dumb to know how to reduce it.
Click to expand...

I pulled several pushrods out. No blockage and not galling to the tips. I cleaned them with brake clean just to be sure. Reassembled and still no difference.

If you have the file you can send it to [email protected] if it's easier than tyring to post it on here.

Thanks.
 
sweetk30 said:
o.k. you have a hv pump. didnt say that before so i wanted to say it just in case. sorry me no can help anymore.
Click to expand...

No problem.
I'm just wondering if it's high enough P/V.

They claim it's high volume and high pressure but don't list any specs.
When you installed your cam oiler did it list specs for volume and pressure (i.e. minimum X GPM and Y PSI) or did it just say to use a high volume pump?
 
Yes, you do need a high volume pump with that oiler. Here's the contact info for the BBC oiler manufacturer in case you want to ask him some questions. I talked to him before I purchased the kit, and he was very helpful. IIRC, his name is Bob Cheverny??

B.C. Engineering
4148 South 17th Street
Grand Junction, CO 81501
970-243-5438

OffRoad.com used to have a whole page detailing the install, but it appears to be gone.
 
K30CJ said:
Yes, you do need a high volume pump with that oiler. Here's the contact info for the BBC oiler manufacturer in case you want to ask him some questions. I talked to him before I purchased the kit, and he was very helpful. IIRC, his name is Bob Cheverny??

B.C. Engineering
4148 South 17th Street
Grand Junction, CO 81501
970-243-5438

OffRoad.com used to have a whole page detailing the install, but it appears to be gone.
Click to expand...

Making the phone call as I type this.
:thumb: Thank You!
 
K30CJ said:
That's what I'm talkin' about. Google didn't find it for me.:D
Click to expand...


Before you get TOO excited about that article, you might want to do some research on the Potent Rodent and it's dubious history. The owner is on here as "Shawn" and last I heard, he has already built (and destroyed) 4 motors in that truck....most of the sad stories involved bad machine work, or bad assembly by a builder.

All I'm suggesting is that the engine in that oiling system article didn't live very long even WITH that modification. So it may not be a "cure all" solution....

YMMV.



:usaflag:
 
Greg72 said:
Before you get TOO excited about that article, you might want to do some research on the Potent Rodent and it's dubious history. The owner is on here as "Shawn" and last I heard, he has already built (and destroyed) 4 motors in that truck....most of the sad stories involved bad machine work, or bad assembly by a builder.

All I'm suggesting is that the engine in that oiling system article didn't live very long even WITH that modification. So it may not be a "cure all" solution....

YMMV.

:usaflag:
Click to expand...

Thanks Greg. Yeah, I know of Shawn (one of the reasons for joining this site and offroad.com was his K5). I read the history of his problems and seems as if (hopefully) they were not cam oiler related.

The weird thing is I was told this motor ran fine when it was removed and I have no reason to doubt them (member of CK5). The only thing that I changed that would affect the motor would be the oil pump and/or the fact that the motor "sat" for a few years.

I would hope that the Milodon high V/P pump, pickup and matching pan would not be causing this.

The other thing I noticed is the B.C. Engineering article shows the cam oiler being tapped into the front of the block (after the oil goes by all the cam bearings and lifters) so it should not be stealing oil from them. I can't remember when I had the intake off which end it was tapped into on my motor (front or back), but I'm assuming the guy did it correctly. I might pull the distributor and peak down to check.

I guess I'm still wondering if bad/stuck lifters would cause oil not to be getting to the top end....so far nobody seems to know for sure.
 
Another thing to be considered, when it comes to cam bearings, is that cam bearings have an oil port in them, which needs to be lined up properly with the oil gallery port in the block. If not line up correctly (or only partialy lined up), then this can starve the engine for oil.
 
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