Berthas Cummins Build: Update 8/9/11 Drivetrain Assembly

[badriver19]

Not much of an update but I figured I might let everyone know whats going on at the moment.

I am waiting to find a supplier for the mid mount F6 or 7 or 800 A/C and alternator mount so that I can get started on the fabrication of the engine mounts, engine cross member, trans mount, trans cross member, and transfer case cross member. I am ready to do it, I just need the components in their final positions so that I don't run into unexpected interferences if I were to mount the components after I finalized all of the mounts and cross members.

I would also like to get ahold of a hydroboost unit to see if I will have any interference between it and the air intake plenum.

I will update when I get these figured out and start the fab work hopefully in the next week or so.

 

[badriver19]

All of my Cummins parts came in yesterday for the mid mount a/c setup and I was able to pick them up at lunch. It was a pretty penny for all of this stuff but it really wasn't as much as I would have thought for all that I got in return.

The compressor will be here today(out for delivery), the alternator should be here today or tomorrow, and the motor mounts/crossmember, upper alt mount, and tensioner mount will all be here friday or early next week hopefully in time for christmas time off of work to get this thing moving once again!!!!

 

[badriver19]

Alright, time for another update.

I received all of my parts from Cummins so here they are:

And here they are all layed out:

And here they are mounted on the engine:

I have a couple of other things happening with this project at the moment as well. Since I have the A/C compressor relocated, I can go ahead and figure out the hydro boost unit as well as the radiator so that I can get this dang drivetrain mounted in the frame once and for all.

I received my 1" aluminum body lift from ORD last week which will allow me to get an accurate feel for where my cab/firewall will rest in relation to the bellhousing/back of the engine.

To go with the finding the clearance of the back of the engine and the firewall/trans tunnel, I am also in the middle of some cut and fab so that I can mount my 2nd gen Dodge radiator in my Chevy core support.

This is what I started with(minus the two small pieces missing from the top of it)

The 71 core support had braces that were perpendicular with the bottom of it as well as flanges that the stock radiator rested against that angle back at the top which in turn angle the stock radiator back about 5 degrees or so. I needed to cut the perpendicular braces to make room for the Dodge radiator but I left the flanges that angle the stock radiator because they do not interfere with the mounting of the Dodge radiator.

Cut a little more.....

I welded some 3/16 plate to the locations that the bottom "feet" of the Dodge radiator will rest into. It is not easy welding 3/16 to that sheetmetal!

I drilled a 1" hole in each of the mounting pads for the rubber feet of the radiator to rest into. I also created an extension of the support where I had the two sections cut out at the top of the core support. These will be for the two top mounting tabs to have a solid place to mount. They will be finished to create a stock look.

Here are a couple of looks to get a feel for the way the Dodge radiator will mount in the 71 core support. It will be angled back as the stock radiator was although at a bit less of an angle.

I was planning on using the stock 2nd gen Dodge intercooler as well but it has proven very difficult to get a clean appearance fit to the core support out of it. I will deal with this once I get the past the radiator mount, hydroboost, and engine mounts finalized as it is not critical to the placement of the drivetrain at this point.

I also just received my hydroboost unit out of a 1991 C3500 as well as my 2wd steering box out of an 80-87 square body to run my crossover setup. I was able to get everything off of the 91 that was related to the hydroboost, including the lines the Mosesburb and I were talking about. This should make having custom lines made a bit easier to give them the ends and the lengths and have the hydraulic specialists make them. I will have to get the hydroboost mounted to the cab and get the cab set in place once again to check the clearances of the hydroboost and the intake plenum above the injection pump.

Mosesburb, did you invert the mounting plate on the hydroboost so that it would line up with the hole in the firewall for the brake pedal rod? It looks like if I did this that it would line up better so that I wouldn't have to cut another hole for the rod. I just took a minute to look at the mounting of the hydroboost, so I could be missing something. Here is what I am talking about; you can see the rod hole in the firewall is towards the bottom two studs where as the rod on the hydroboost unit is towards the top two studs:

 

[sixb]

Isn't that upper water outlet gonna hit the belt?
Pretty much the exact same setup as mine

Edit; here are a few pictures of my setup and how I ran my belt.

 

[badriver19]

Isn't that upper water outlet gonna hit the belt?
Pretty much the exact same setup as mine

Edit; here are a few pictures of my setup and how I ran my belt.

Your pics are a bit too dark to see the route that the belt takes. Mind editing your post with some brighter pics? I am curious to see where you have your belt.

This is a belt routing diagram from an F800 which is the route that I am going to go which allows me to miss the water upper water neck as you can see. I was afraid of the amount of wrap on the a/c compressor til I found this which made me more confident since they used this belt routing from the factory.

 

[badriver19]

I got the hydroboost bracket flipped, drilled the bottom 2 holes in the firewall and the pedal assembly, opened the hole in the firewall for the retaining nut, and mounted the hydroboost on the firewall. Now I believe the only things left with the hydroboost is to figure out what I am going to do with the lines, figure out the right length for the rod that attaches to the brake pedal, figure out if the proportioning valve that came with this hydroboost unit will work for my application, and plumb all of my brake lines.

I think that I have a list everything if I don't end up trying to use stock hoses

If I go with the AN route for the hydroboost lines, these are the parts I believe I will need:

Adapter from 18mm w/o-ring to -6AN
Adapter from 16mm w/o-ring to -6AN
High Pressure AN Line from pump to hydroboost
High Pressure AN Line from hydroboost to steering box
Low Pressure Line(either AN for appearance or just rubber hose) from hydroboost return to pump
Same as above for steering box return to pump
T-fitting to join the two return lines

I believe that everything is there. If I am missing something feel free to post it.

Now I just need to source this stuff and figure out the right sizes for the return hoses and T-fitting. What kind of hose can I use for the return line and T-fitting?

I just mocked up my engine crossmember and motor mounts Tuesday night and I will begin welding them in tonight along with fabricating a crossmember to use with the stock transmission mount. Finally, no more blocks, jackstands, jacks, chains, or hoist locating it in the frame rails!

I will get pictures up when I am finished with the transmission crossmember hopefully tonight or tomorrow night.

 

[acewilson]

Here is a link to find some of the adapters or I also believe that russels makes some.
http://www.purechoicemotorsports.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=results/Category_ID=99/mode=cat/cat99.htm

 

[badriver19]

Alright. I have been way too wrapped up in the build and working on it to post all of my progress in my build thread. Looking back I wish I would have taken the time to post progress as I completed it mainly so that I didn't have to do what I am doing now and posting all of it at once. Also, so that I could have had the input and therefore the motivation from all of the members of the board.

So here it is now, your not-so record setting thread update. I believe it was right at 5 months ago since the last post to this thread so ive got some catching up to do.

I am not even exactly sure where it was that i left off last but i will do my best to start where i ended.

This will mostly be pictures for time's sake but I will do my best to get back to the thread to add descriptions

I am actually dozing off while writing this so I think that I will wait til next time to post the actual good stuff. i dont want to give it all away before i actually post the update but I can say that I have made progress about 3 days a week on average since my last update, with most of it being on the frame.

Stay tuned as I have a good 70 pictures to post up with some good
progress.

Derek

 

[sixb]

looking forward to it

 

[ashman]

woot!

 

[scotto0609]

yeah!!!!

 

[badriver19]

Ok, so I believe that my last update had to do with positioning the drivetrain within the frame, mounting the high mount a/c setup, and modifying the core support to accept the Dodge radiator.

The drive train has found its final resting position, the high mount a/c setup has obviously been mounted, the core support is near complete(minus modification for the intercooler cutouts), plus tons more. I would be willing to bet I've put in over 100 hours since the last update. The unfortunate thing is that I say Ive got that much time into it but one might expect more progress than I have. I will let you be the judge of that.

I believe that the next thing that I completed after I left off was the engine crossmember. I bought it from a member on another board. I was going to build my own but the design that he had was really close to what I had envisioned and the measurements and work was all completed for me. The only thing I had to do was modify it to fit my frame where i wanted it in the frame rails and weld it together and weld it in.

After I modified and finished the Engine crossmember and mounts, I moved to the transmission mount and crossmember. I ended up using the stock 2wd(not sure if it is universal to 4wd) rubber mount from the Dodge tranny. I will have to modify it by cutting off the exhaust hanger as it will be right in front of the front output of the transfer case.

Once I had the vertical location of the rear of the drivetrain, I centered it in the frame rails and build a crossmember around it. The crossmember itself is more 2x4 3/16" box tube and the brackets are 1/4" plate cut on the water jet. I sleeved the frame where the 4 bolts of each bracket go through before I built the x member. Two holes for the tranny mount studs in the top of the x member and two oversize holes in the bottom for the washer nuts.

Sorry for the poor quality pics. I should be able to leave my camera out in the barn now that it is warmer out.

 

[badriver19]

After I finished the tranny and engine x members that I poured hours into, I started on the forward most x member. I had thought about using the stock location for this one but if I did that it would have had to been notched for the cooling fan. So instead of having to notch it, I moved it forward a bit to clear it. I had to notch the ends a bit to slip past the bolts holding on the core support mounts/front spring hanger mounts resulting in not as much surface to weld to but since I am boxing the frame, I should not have an issue here.

Keeping with the mid-front parts of the frame, after finishing the x members I started on the steering box area as well as clearance for the tensioner bracket, lower water neck, front case cover, and power steering pump.

For the steering box mounting, I used the same sleeves as the tranny x member bolt sleeves, bolted the gear box to the frame with the sleeves on the bolts and tacked them in. I then removed the gear box and its bolts from the sleeves and boxed the front portion of both frame rails cutting holes for the steering box sleeves. After some trial and error, I had the driver side all tacked in and ready for final welding of the seams.

While I was at it, I notched the corner of the frame a bit for the front gear case of the engine. You can see it in the last few pics of the steering boxing.

 

[badriver19]

For the passenger side, I had to notch the frame to clear the tensioner bracket as well as the lower water neck. This went surprisingly quick. I cut and weld and cut and weld and it was finished. Pretty straight forward.

And then just some overall shots of the front of the frame progress:

Then some boxing between the x member boxing:

 

[badriver19]

With the front of the frame basically completed, I pulled the rolling chassis forward and migrated all of my tools and workstation to the rear to get started on it. I thought that the rear was going to be much easier than the front because I didnt think that I was going to have to make as many modifications. I learned quick that this was not going to be the case. With more of the same stripping paint and rust, removing rivets, filling holes, building x members, and boxing it definitely wasnt going to be a walk in the park. The things that needed done were not difficult by any means, just terribly time consuming and tedious.

The first x member i did was the one in front of the rear wheels. I removed the old and cut and welded in the new. I then threw in some bracing to make it a bit more stout.

After that I cut the rear most x member and welded it in in the factory position while also sleeving the frame for the rear 2 pairs of bed mounts.

With the exception of the boxing. the rest of the rear portion of the frame just kind of ran together from removing lips and recesses, to filling holes, to sleeving the frame for the rear bumper and hitch mount.

After I finished up the rear section of the frame including the boxing, I removed both axles out from under the frame and got it in good position to finish weld the top and bottom of the boxing.

When I finished that, I added some rear upper shock mounts using the factory studs on a pair of plates I cut out. I plug welded the back of the stud to the plate as well as the plate to the frame. Then I fully welded the stud to the plate and then the plate to the frame.

This is how I positioned the frame to give myself good positioning for final welding.

That was one of the last things I did to the frame before I threw the axles back under it to make it a bit more mobile. The last few nights I have been working on getting my sand blaster working well so that I can blast all of the spring mounts and body mounts that I cant get to with a wire wheel or grinder. Right now I am just waiting on a dry day to come along with some time from my fiance to roll it outside to do the sandblasting so that I can get started on painting the frame and rear springs.

While I am waiting a dry day, I am also going to start pulling components off of the engine so that I can paint it and the tranny and x case right around the same time I paint the frame.

Once all of that stuff is painted and reassembled I can bolt the frame to the springs and axles and bolt the drive train to the frame hopefully for the final time. When the paint and final assembly of the frame and drive train are complete, I will have reached a huge milestone of this project and I think that things will start to move much quicker shortly after that as I will dive into the rust repair of my cab.

Keep an eye out as this thing will start to come together in the near future.

Derek

 

[sixb]

Very nice work

 

[kgblazerfive]

yeah looks good

 

[badriver19]

Thanks guys

 

[brandoneh]

Wow, this thing is STOUT! Amazing job!

 

[max 02]

Built like a tank!
Nice work man!