I run Mobil 1. I figure since the military uses it in gas turbine engines, it has to be good. Besides, Wally world sells it.
CK5
Register an account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members.
Best Synthetic Oil (and why)
- Thread starter guido666
- Start date
CanmoreK5 said:
those are awesome informative links. i'll have to spend some time reading up there. bob is the ... seems like a great resource. until i have time to really read indepth on that - is there anything specific about (maybe all of) what i said which may be wrong? thanks.
colbystephens.
Can Can
Pusher Man
It's not like that, brother. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but when it comes to "which one is best?" questions about tangible things like oil performance, I personally prefer to see opinions backed up by some facts or a study. That's why I included a few reference links in my reply.
I hope they prove helpful!!!!
GotLabs said:
I don't know who sold you that line, but oil for reciprocating engines (anything with pistons) and oil for turbine engines are two completely and totally different animals. Different base stocks, different additive packages, different everything.
The military specification for turbine engine oil is MIL-L-23699. Milspec for piston engine oil is something totally different - I think it's on the back of 15w-40 containers of Mobil 1, but I can't remember it offhand.
Silver84k5
1/2 ton status
i chose amsoil, because i like their stickers. this is first hand knowledge...
and for the hearsay part. I HEARD from a friend, that an engine builder TOLD him, that Kendall Synthetic was the "good stuff"
that is what i have been running,, and my motor isnt blown up yet.. (i dont have but 100 miles on the motor
)
and for the hearsay part. I HEARD from a friend, that an engine builder TOLD him, that Kendall Synthetic was the "good stuff"
that is what i have been running,, and my motor isnt blown up yet.. (i dont have but 100 miles on the motor
)
Intermixing..
Its all so confusing..dont mix synthetic with petroleum..? --what about "Semi-Synthetic",or "Synthetic Blend"??..."High Mileage Oil"..
--no wonder nobody knows what to put in their crankcase anymore!...
All I know is I'm too poor to buy ANY oil that costs 5 bucks a quart..I've read consumer reports magazines tests of regular VS synthetic oils using new york taxicabs as the guinea pigs..they found no appreciable difference in engine wear after tearing down the engines..I feel if my trucks had over 100,000 miles put on them with regular petroleum oils,the "damage" is already done..and adding synthetic now might loosen up crud and do more harm than good!..so I'm sticking with regular oils..
If I had a new Vette,or something with extremely low miles and planned on keeping forever,I'd use synthetic..Its evident it does PREVENT wear better,but I dont think it tightens up loose motors or will do any good in something that been run on dinosour oil any length of time...
Also,I've read if an oil has the "MIL" specs on the can,it means its mixable with any other oil..one thing the military requires,since they cant always gaurantee in combat their favorite oil of choice will be readily available!..not sure if thats true,but I read it in some "Amalie" oil litterature years ago...sounds plausible to me...
Its all so confusing..dont mix synthetic with petroleum..? --what about "Semi-Synthetic",or "Synthetic Blend"??..."High Mileage Oil"..
--no wonder nobody knows what to put in their crankcase anymore!...All I know is I'm too poor to buy ANY oil that costs 5 bucks a quart..I've read consumer reports magazines tests of regular VS synthetic oils using new york taxicabs as the guinea pigs..they found no appreciable difference in engine wear after tearing down the engines..I feel if my trucks had over 100,000 miles put on them with regular petroleum oils,the "damage" is already done..and adding synthetic now might loosen up crud and do more harm than good!..so I'm sticking with regular oils..
If I had a new Vette,or something with extremely low miles and planned on keeping forever,I'd use synthetic..Its evident it does PREVENT wear better,but I dont think it tightens up loose motors or will do any good in something that been run on dinosour oil any length of time...
Also,I've read if an oil has the "MIL" specs on the can,it means its mixable with any other oil..one thing the military requires,since they cant always gaurantee in combat their favorite oil of choice will be readily available!..not sure if thats true,but I read it in some "Amalie" oil litterature years ago...sounds plausible to me...
diesel4me said:Its all so confusing..dont mix synthetic with petroleum..? --what about "Semi-Synthetic",or "Synthetic Blend"??..."High Mileage Oil"..
All I know is I'm too poor to buy ANY oil that costs 5 bucks a quart..I've read consumer reports magazines tests of regular VS synthetic oils using new york taxicabs as the guinea pigs..they found no appreciable difference in engine wear after tearing down the engines..I feel if my trucks had over 100,000 miles put on them with regular petroleum oils,the "damage" is already done..and adding synthetic now might loosen up crud and do more harm than good!..so I'm sticking with regular oils..
If I had a new Vette,or something with extremely low miles and planned on keeping forever,I'd use synthetic..Its evident it does PREVENT wear better,but I dont think it tightens up loose motors or will do any good in something that been run on dinosour oil any length of time...
Also,I've read if an oil has the "MIL" specs on the can,it means its mixable with any other oil..one thing the military requires,since they cant always gaurantee in combat their favorite oil of choice will be readily available!..not sure if thats true,but I read it in some "Amalie" oil litterature years ago...sounds plausible to me...
Taxis... and most fleet vehicles... don't see the start-stop cycles regular vehicles often see. It's nothing to see a 150,000 mile taxi motor with 20,000 hours on it compared to a regular automobile that might have 4,000 hours on it by the time 150,000 miles roll around. I believe in synthetics for high RPM/high heat instances, cold weather startups, and its ability to have high adhesion to parts.
4by4bygod
1/2 ton status
One synthetic basestock is called a PAO, or PolyAlphaOlefin. Mobil1, & RP are examples of these. They are made by compressing natural gas molecules into uniform size, so they flow nice and smooth on start up and in cold weather. It's still a petroleum product, however, in that they both come from different parts of the hydrocarbon chain.
Esters are the other synthetic basestock, also from the same hydrocarbon chain, just a different part of it.
those synthetic blends ( such as castrol ) you are speaking of are a PAO basestock blended with a percentage of mineral oil. Castrol isn't required to tell anyone how much mineral oil and solvents are in there, but the result is they get to sell you a watered down product and still call it a synthetic.
The oil makers do a delicate balancing act with their synthetics.. Esters ( the first synthetics ) are better at withstanding heat than a PAO, but are very expensive, and they swell and soften seals, and have a strong affinity for moisture. Companies with Ester synthetics have to additize the crap out of them to get them to work.
PAO basestocks are the cheap alternative to esters, but PAO's have seal shrinkage and hardening characteristics, and are blended with esters to minimize these effects ( to swell them, actually ) and to improve lubricity, help them withstand heat, and help the additive package stay in suspension, which is another PAO issue. Typical ester blend is 5 -25%.
Bottom line is that PAO's are used because they're cheap to make, not because they are the best ever. While a PAO oil is superior to a bottom shelf mineral oil (group 1), mineral oil can be hydrotreated so that the moecules are similar, ( called a group II ) giving the same cold weather / cold start performance as a more expensive PAO.
The biggest drawback to the oil technology out there is the fact that combustion temps degrade the oil's additive package over time, every time the cylinder fires.
That's why I disagree with marketing claims hyping extended drain intervals for everybody. without oil analysis, and accounting for blowby & leakdown, it's impossible to know how long beyond 3,000 miles one should go, aside from just guessing.
anyway, just some thoughts for discussion.
Tom
hunterguy86
1/2 ton status
Where is the beaver oil choice on the poll?
pauly383
Daddy383
hunterguy86 said:
They don't make synthetic beaver oil because no one would leave the house anymore
hunterguy86
1/2 ton status
pauly383k10 said:They don't make synthetic beaver oil because no one would leave the house anymore
It was sarcasm. Referring to "it has to be good the military uses it"
I use Moblie 1 in everything. Never had a problem.
JonV
Registered Member
Everybody has their favorite engine oil. If you really want to know what is a good oil, use oil analysis.
I use Lubrication Engineers 8800 15w-40 in my 79 jimmy. It is 100% parrafin base oil and refined twice. Excellent drain intervals, and very low engine wear. It is first a diesel engine oil (CH-4), and second a gas engine oil (SJ).
I've taken hundreds of oil samples on many different oils. Synthetics, synthetic blends, and mineral oils. You wouldn't belive the crap that is out there. Recently API pulled engine oils off of retail shelves and randomly tested them to see if they met their API certifications. Almost about 20 different ones failed their test requirements for certification. Needless to say they were warned to fix them or lose the certification.
If you are serious about your engines, consider oil analysis on a regular basis.
Also use a good oil filter. Your first clue is the weight.
I use Lubrication Engineers 8800 15w-40 in my 79 jimmy. It is 100% parrafin base oil and refined twice. Excellent drain intervals, and very low engine wear. It is first a diesel engine oil (CH-4), and second a gas engine oil (SJ).
I've taken hundreds of oil samples on many different oils. Synthetics, synthetic blends, and mineral oils. You wouldn't belive the crap that is out there. Recently API pulled engine oils off of retail shelves and randomly tested them to see if they met their API certifications. Almost about 20 different ones failed their test requirements for certification. Needless to say they were warned to fix them or lose the certification.
If you are serious about your engines, consider oil analysis on a regular basis.
Also use a good oil filter. Your first clue is the weight.
trikstark5
1/2 ton status
I use Mobil 1 in all my vehicles. Always have and always will. Never came across any problems with an oil issue on any of vehicles when I use Mobil 1.
S. Burnham
Registered Member
I just got through having this exact conversation with my machinist the other day. He is not a jack roush or a kenny burnstien ( I am from ms so i can't spell), But he has built some of the baddest street and race engines in this region. He uses valvoline 20-50 standard oil. I asked him why. He said he has asked every person he has torn an engine down for what kind of oil they used. He said he has never seen any proof that synthetic oil performes any better in a naturaly asperated gas burning engine. He said that if you realy think about it what temp. does your engine run at? How many rpms are you turning? how much compression does your engine have? all this would realy make a difference if you were running a 800hp, 17000rpm, motor for 500 miles non stop. he told me the only people he has ever herd of actualy having better results with synthetics are people servicing equipment that has extended service dates in industries that can't afford the down time on a line or a piece of equipment for maintance. but in your engine you would still have to change your filter. he does use synthetices in his rear ends. He did warn me against fram filters and the new acdelco filters. they will calaps under pressure and cause you to loose oil pressure. I work in a parts store and i have herd several people say the same thing. synthetics are good for the ectra security if you can afford it but the only time that it realy is going to protect your engine any more than conventional oil is an overheating situation. But we all know you are supposed to whatch that temp gauge all the time
4by4bygod
1/2 ton status
S. Burnham said:he told me the only people he has ever herd of actualy having better results with synthetics are people servicing equipment that has extended service dates in industries that can't afford the down time on a line or a piece of equipment for maintance.
and why would your car be any different ? if an oil is proven ( thru analysis )to be reducing wear more than another oil , and it hasn't sheared out of grade from combustion temps, why wouldn't my K5 benefit from using it?
I'm sure your machinist can build a good motor, but his thinking on oil is incomplete. Oil doesn't just provide boundary lubrication... it also has to manage heat, and reduce wear, which in turn reduces friction. ( and not turn to sludge in the process )
The benefits that an industrial or racing customer might see from such an oil are directly applicable to the daily driver, and all oils are not equal.
Which brings me to another point.
many people simply aren't informed enough to know what is or isn't a benefit to their vehicles.
For example, I can dump in a low quality ( synthetic or mineral ) oil in my car, change it every 3,000 miles, and think I'm doing the right thing from a cost standpoint, and live happily ever after.
I can also spend more money on a high quality ( synthetic or mineral ) oil in my car, and think I've wasted my money because I can't detect a change in performance, but not do an oil analysis to really see if I know what I'm talking about.
Just because a motor doesen't grenade, doesn't mean it's not wearing out faster than it should, or can't benefit from reduced friction, or can't benefit from the ability to withstand 2500 degree combustion temps and not turn to sludge.
Tom
Cornfield creations
1/2 ton status
Parafin based? Isn't that a form of candlewax? At least thats what I was always told. Like Schafers oil is parafin based and actually the vehicles that people bring their own oil (schafer's) usually comes out black and cruddy after 3,000 miles, compared to conventional oil that would be a dark brown and come out nice and thin after the 3,000 mark. Not after an extended change (which 7/8 of the people come in to our shop do).
A woman brought in a year old expedition one time, changed it around 25,000 miles. Next time she came in it had 58,000 miles on it w/ our filter and sticker in the window. There was more oil in the filter then there was in the pan. LOL, black as can be, and sludgy. That thing used oil badly after that. We told her about it and how you shouldn't go that long on oil. She started changing it regulary, and it was about the same every time, hardly no oil in the pan.
Just wanted to share that pathetic story
A woman brought in a year old expedition one time, changed it around 25,000 miles. Next time she came in it had 58,000 miles on it w/ our filter and sticker in the window. There was more oil in the filter then there was in the pan. LOL, black as can be, and sludgy. That thing used oil badly after that. We told her about it and how you shouldn't go that long on oil. She started changing it regulary, and it was about the same every time, hardly no oil in the pan.
Just wanted to share that pathetic story
