Haha not with a 402. I doubt even a 454 or 502 won't come close. Twin turbos on a diesel almost gets rid of turbo lag, but im far from an expert on dinosaur burners. It would cost a shit ton to build a big block that can complete with a diesel, and then would need to refinance your house to fuel it. But don't listen to me, Ive only had 1 cup of coffee....
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BIG BLOCKvs LSvs DURAMAX
- Thread starter 4xfrankie
- Start date
Mileage will be hard to match if the engines are comparable. Diesel fuel contains more energy per gallon and the engines typically have a higher thermal efficiency. So you're asking for the moon if you want to match the power, torque, AND mileage numbers at the same time. You're gonna hafta pick one thing to focus on.
QUESTION
And, finally the last of my questions that I will answer myself, everyone seems to be predisposed with "facebook " comments -whatever.QUESTION: can the LSX be built to beat both a Duramax /big block . This one is a bit up in the air .You would think that with less cubic inches that the answer would be no. I think that what makes these engines so good is the ports in the heads and what is refered to as injector "targeting",where the fuel is atomized better and the tumble and swirl of the intake charge is maximized.I also believe this is what makes a duramax so good as well as other factors that I am sure someone will enlighten me on facts.
An LS no problem. I buddy of mine has a 67 or 68 Camaro that had a 540 I think with a super charger and 2 4s. He wanted to mess with LSs to see what they would do and find any weak links. He went with a carb (dunno why, old school I guess) but had a turbo on it. Motor was stock except for a cam swap, and with TH400, dunno stall, Dana 60 with 4.10s I think, he said it pulled harder than the big block did. And this was a 4.8. He thought it was a 5.3. To me it's going backwards putting a carb on an LS, but I guess it is cheaper, but tuning would be fun. I'll see if I can find any vids of it....
hey ,I said I would probably loose. No expert here either..how you supposed to learn without asking stupid questions?
I did not know that about the diesel fuel.SEE, that is why I ask these questions.I was hoping that someone would explain the facts of what makes the diesel so good at low end torque . I did not think that my questions were that bad , and even though I was vague on actual use of a vehicle I don't see what the big deal was- I mean there are only so many ways you can use a four wheel drive.
Igeuss the issues are cost to build,power , and fuel mileage .whichever has the best out of three is the winner. So which engine do you think can come out on top with all three?
Again depends what you want to do. If you want just a driver, mild wheeler, then LS be fine. If you have 44" tires, hardcore wheeler, then maybe a big block or built LS with a hair dryer. Heavy towing or a big mudder, then a diesel might be better. I want a diesel, mainly cause I never had or built one. I have a P-pump 12v that is stock 190 horse, 475 torque. With a fuel plate, BHAF, big exhaust and some tuning, it's now almost 300 horse and 750 torque. The horse isn't the big deal, a small block can do that easy, but the torque is gonna take a whole bunch to get even close. I've had 454s with maybe 500 torque and couldn't believe what it could do. I can't imagine or cant' wait to build this thing, then find a truck to put it in. Need to figure out what you want to do....
My current street driven trazer just has a small block .If I decide to buy a truck to build for MUD , 44in tires +,you think a diesel would be better than a big block for a purpose built mud truck?
Mud... built big block, plus nitrous. Need gobs of frame twisting torque, plus wheel speed.
Check this thread from a member here
https://ck5.com/forums/threads/mud-racing-2015.321154/
Check this thread from a member here
https://ck5.com/forums/threads/mud-racing-2015.321154/
That was my choice as well.Thanks for the thread
Enjoy that thread. Anytime I've had a bad day I go check out his videos and turn the volume to 11. I feel much better almost immediately.
Wow,that yellow truck (K5 ) with the paddle tires in the first video,really winds up !..
..love the way it sounds,like a top fuel-er on alcohol!..
..love the way it sounds,like a top fuel-er on alcohol!..
I think this is kind of application specific, boost is the great equalizer. You can make a gasoline engine produce as much as a diesel and vice versa, at what cost??
Diesels have a lot going for them in stock form. Forged everything(mostly) insane strength at the expense of the weight.
Gasoline engines have other attributes that are more favorable for performance, snappier response n/a or boosted, lighter rotating assembly almost always. Fuel is quicker burning witch usually is the reason they are snappier. Im talking 10/10 builds not your backyard build..
If you look around most guys that are building 1khp and tq diesels rarely get into the bottom end with maybe the exception of the pistons, gas motors are the opposite because they are less stressed. The combustion of the fuel is the reason for this. gas is ignited from a spark, diesel from pressure.
Its almost an apples to oranges comparison.
I believe there are merits to reduce lower end torque output, driveline and tires can only take so much and either break or spin at the introduction to massive quantities, Diesels by nature start to have a very distinct power band when turned wayyy up where a boosted or n/a gas motor actually starts to expand its working area.. the diesel has to try and burn the left over fuel or else it creates heat, that is the opposite of a gas motor.. Gas motors can use fuel to cool the combustion charge..
for a crawler its hard to beat the off idle torque of a big diesel, they are undeniably better at moving big shit.. for anything else besides pulling Id much rather have a gasoline engine. With the advent of DI there is significant gains to be had in lower end torque production and flexablilty.
Diesels are DI and have been for a really long time, this is part of the reason they run well, injecting the fuel directly into the combustion chamber has huge benefits, and having high pressure injection systems to atomize the fuel eliminates the need for the port injection. which opens the port up and allows for less airflow restrictions. if you ever look at a VW 2.0 turbo head, you can see from the intake port to the backside of the valve.. its an almost straight shot. and same for the exhaust. So with this particular motor its possible for it to be 4-600hp and completely daily drive able without the stupid big turbo small displacement laggy issues. This is a good example of the diesel tech being introduced in gas engines.
I have had the TDI and The TSI, same size engine similar output, The diesel was 140hp/236tq and the gas is 200hp/200tq and they're good at their own things. The diesel definitely had low end but gave up the ghost on the high end, and the gas car is the opposite. VW gears the cars completely different to compensate for this. Diesel gets the taller gearbox and the gas gets the shorter one. I think this is a good comparison... if you compare two different mfr or two different chassis etc you cant make a direct analysis..
Diesels have a lot going for them in stock form. Forged everything(mostly) insane strength at the expense of the weight.
Gasoline engines have other attributes that are more favorable for performance, snappier response n/a or boosted, lighter rotating assembly almost always. Fuel is quicker burning witch usually is the reason they are snappier. Im talking 10/10 builds not your backyard build..
If you look around most guys that are building 1khp and tq diesels rarely get into the bottom end with maybe the exception of the pistons, gas motors are the opposite because they are less stressed. The combustion of the fuel is the reason for this. gas is ignited from a spark, diesel from pressure.
Its almost an apples to oranges comparison.
I believe there are merits to reduce lower end torque output, driveline and tires can only take so much and either break or spin at the introduction to massive quantities, Diesels by nature start to have a very distinct power band when turned wayyy up where a boosted or n/a gas motor actually starts to expand its working area.. the diesel has to try and burn the left over fuel or else it creates heat, that is the opposite of a gas motor.. Gas motors can use fuel to cool the combustion charge..
for a crawler its hard to beat the off idle torque of a big diesel, they are undeniably better at moving big shit.. for anything else besides pulling Id much rather have a gasoline engine. With the advent of DI there is significant gains to be had in lower end torque production and flexablilty.
Diesels are DI and have been for a really long time, this is part of the reason they run well, injecting the fuel directly into the combustion chamber has huge benefits, and having high pressure injection systems to atomize the fuel eliminates the need for the port injection. which opens the port up and allows for less airflow restrictions. if you ever look at a VW 2.0 turbo head, you can see from the intake port to the backside of the valve.. its an almost straight shot. and same for the exhaust. So with this particular motor its possible for it to be 4-600hp and completely daily drive able without the stupid big turbo small displacement laggy issues. This is a good example of the diesel tech being introduced in gas engines.
I have had the TDI and The TSI, same size engine similar output, The diesel was 140hp/236tq and the gas is 200hp/200tq and they're good at their own things. The diesel definitely had low end but gave up the ghost on the high end, and the gas car is the opposite. VW gears the cars completely different to compensate for this. Diesel gets the taller gearbox and the gas gets the shorter one. I think this is a good comparison... if you compare two different mfr or two different chassis etc you cant make a direct analysis..
Asking questions is a good thing, and we're happy to answer them. But if you ask vague questions you cannot get specific answers. There ARE many ways one can use a truck, and setting a truck up to be really good at one thing will cause it to be crummy at other things.
For example - I have a truck set up for mileage, Adam has a truck set up for charging up sand dunes at high speed, and Eric set his truck up for rock crawling. Our rigs are VERY different, despite starting out as similar GM trucks. Adam likes his fuel-thirsty go-fast engine for exactly the same reasons that it wouldn't be a good match for my cruising rig. Likewise, my slow rig would not be great at the dunes. If you try to build a truck that's somewhat good at everything...you'll end up with a fairly stock truck (that is what GM did, after all). Purpose-built rigs can't happen if you don't have a specific purpose in mind.
It reminds me of another classic, and completely unanswerable question:
"What does a pretty girl look like?"
-G
@4xfrankie, that last post of yours (quoting mine) is blank. Not sure if your message got lost or what. 
No,I started to reply,but then decided that I have nothing else to add.@4xfrankie, that last post of yours (quoting mine) is blank. Not sure if your message got lost or what.
