You were supposed to bring them.
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Blazer Bash 2022 general discussion thread.
- Thread starter ktmoutfront
- Start date
Moab Sun News
Volume 12 # 36
Volume 12 # 36
Save a copy of that for me would you.
I’m going to link the article. But I will do so with the understanding that nobody, does anything to argue the point on the newspaper site or the city or county websites.
I’ve got a hard enough battle to fight to to keep this thing going please refrain from posting on their platforms and have it relate back to Blazer Bash.
This is playing into their hand if we come off half cocked and start trying to argue the point with them.
Knowing that this forum can also be seen by anybody, comments made here could still put us in a bad light. Wade and Mark have been keeping me in the loop on the recent process so not everyone knows all the factual details to be able to argue the points.
Let’s not let them get us wound up on this stuff. Anybody that has questions can shoot them to me via pm here. I’ll do the best to answer them. The process is going to change in a month and a half so we don’t know the lay of the land yet. Not worth arguing until we know what the plan is.
But please respect my request. When asked for people to step up and take the event over there wasn’t a lot of takers on the job. If anybody wants start making my job more difficult by running their mouth and making the situation worse for the event will be the moment they will be taking over for me. I will make sure negative remarks will be deleted here as soon as I see them.
I don’t mean to come off like a control freak but we need be smart about this and keeping contact to a minimum.
moabsunnews.com
I’ve got a hard enough battle to fight to to keep this thing going please refrain from posting on their platforms and have it relate back to Blazer Bash.
This is playing into their hand if we come off half cocked and start trying to argue the point with them.
Knowing that this forum can also be seen by anybody, comments made here could still put us in a bad light. Wade and Mark have been keeping me in the loop on the recent process so not everyone knows all the factual details to be able to argue the points.
Let’s not let them get us wound up on this stuff. Anybody that has questions can shoot them to me via pm here. I’ll do the best to answer them. The process is going to change in a month and a half so we don’t know the lay of the land yet. Not worth arguing until we know what the plan is.
But please respect my request. When asked for people to step up and take the event over there wasn’t a lot of takers on the job. If anybody wants start making my job more difficult by running their mouth and making the situation worse for the event will be the moment they will be taking over for me. I will make sure negative remarks will be deleted here as soon as I see them.
I don’t mean to come off like a control freak but we need be smart about this and keeping contact to a minimum.
Frustration reigns over special event permits - Moab Sun News
Grand County Commissioners grew frustrated at their Sept. 6 meeting.
moabsunnews.com
I've kept pretty quiet all along on this,
I understand the frustrations on our part, we feel like we have a small event of approx. 50 trucks or less which typically means less than 100 people in total and the event realistically has been ongoing for some twenty years. Our attendees use a wide variety of lodging options, from RV parks, to Hotels, to online private rentals (Air BNB etc.), and at times dispersed camping in the area. Our limited vehicle numbers and trail selection variety and timing mean we aren't parading through town in a miles long train that holds up traffic, from what I can see we're not a hardcore party crowd that is out causing issues with law enforcement, in the limited time we're in Moab we all need to by gas, ice, daily food and most that I know eat out at least a few times so thus we are contribute to the local economy and tax base. Overall I like to think that our event, organizers, participants and sponsors are well meaning and honorable people that simply want to do the right thing while not having to jump through undo hoops and issues.
I'm from a resort area, I've literally had punk kids come out of a bar and jump on the back of my brand new truck doing some sort of parkour tricks as I drive down the street, When confronted I was the bad guy somehow as they're just here to have a good time. I've listened to loud music from parties until all hours of the night, watched fireworks be set off in a drought year for 4th of July because their just here to have a good time and what's the big deal. I've been unable to find camping places locally for scouts due to so many people being here since it is a destination resort and recreation area.
My wife doesn't come to many of these events, her day to day dealings are politics and the changing winds in the governmental world due to her/our business leasing land and facilities from the local City. She expressed to me last night that she was pretty put off by some of the attitudes and conversations that we had both privately and publicly this weekend over the permits and processes. She's usually a pretty even keeled type and see's through some of the fuzziness pretty well so I take that comment from her seriously.
All that said:
We passed the threshold of needing a BLM permit early in the events life, when we realized this the permit was procured and the process was honored.
We have now passed both the Grand County and City of Moab thresholds for a permits and or licenses and we should honor those processes just as the BLM process was honored.
I guess the frustrations and issues arise in dealing with what seems like I will say that the wording in the county ordinance is somewhat confusing and ambiguous;
Actual wording from the ordinance below:
“Special Event” shall mean a sporting, cultural, entertainment, commercial, or similar gathering or activity, whether for profit or nonprofit, whether open to the public or not, whether located on private or public land (including trails), occurring for a limited duration not to exceed thirty (30) consecutive days; and:
i. Where Daily Total Attendance may exceed one hundred persons;
ii. Noise that is prohibited by Title 11 of the Grand County General Ordinances may be used or created (the “Noise Ordinance”);
iii. The County Commission determines that the proposed event will result in identifiable impacts to county services or the health, welfare, peace, comfort, or safety of Grand County residents or visitors; or,
iv. Any event available to the public that requires the full or partial closure of a public right of way or use of public property."
We fulfill in some way the need for a special permit, the process to get that permit obviously needs work as both ourselves, the county staff, and the county commissioners noted in that meeting.
The event likely has needed more permits and licenses than we have known about for some time. We CAN NOT be upset by this fact, our ignorance isn't an excuse either, it's not the responsibility of the Authority Having Jurisdiction (AHJ), Grand County commissioners or staff in this case, to track us down. The AHJ has the ultimate say and we need to be prepared to understand their process, work within those boundaries and do our own research on those processes. I know the above because my professional life has me working closely with very restrictive building practices in the local County and City.
I have first hand knowledge of the frustrations that go with weaving through the process with governmental agencies, staff turns over regularly, because many ordinances and "rules" are driven by who is in charge, (elected officials), there are constant updates and changes to the processes, and the staff while helpful are not going to stick their neck out very far to help someone out if the outcome could paint them in a bad light at all. To give you an idea of what I deal with on a regular basis, a building permit in the Main City I work in typically takes 1 year to get, there are several rounds of reviews, lists of questions, and many times the rules might change midstream, the local County isn't much better. For comparison: a neighboring town typically provides a permit for very similar projects in 4-6 weeks.
So for the Grand County officials and or staff reading this, I get it but the process needs work and the county commissioners shouldn't be reviewing special use permits for events that are as small as ours, this should be an approval at Staff levels. Additionally there should be the ability for multiple small events of differing types to be approved and held concurrently. It's understandable that you don't want every month to be filled to the brim with special events, however the fact that any "commercial, or similar gathering or activity" is a permittable event you MUST be prepared to approve many permits to be held concurrently. As an example, how would the sky diving event and our Blazer Bash be viewed if they were happening concurrently? I argue they can be held at the same time and NOT have a negative impact on your county. They are separate genre's so to say and wouldn't interfere with each other at all. Perhaps the Hummer event that was denied and BB would be a conflict though, again however it sounds like that would still only be approx. 75 vehicles. That's not a lot of vehicles spread out over the local area. These are not Easter Jeep Safari or the classic car show sized events, these are small down to earth events that have limited advertisement and participation as compared with other events.
For those that stuck with me through the above,
In the same light we're asking the AHJ to be better, we also need to be better, and we need to understand we're playing in someone else backyard.
EDIT: This is not in any way meant to cast a shadow on or slight the efforts put in by both Wade and Marks, in fact I hope that it helps others understand a bit of the frustrations and difficulties that they went through just to put the event on. Weaving your way through an unknown process, in short timeframes, with little direction or instruction isn't easy. They made it work, the commissioners ok'd it and we had a great event.
I understand the frustrations on our part, we feel like we have a small event of approx. 50 trucks or less which typically means less than 100 people in total and the event realistically has been ongoing for some twenty years. Our attendees use a wide variety of lodging options, from RV parks, to Hotels, to online private rentals (Air BNB etc.), and at times dispersed camping in the area. Our limited vehicle numbers and trail selection variety and timing mean we aren't parading through town in a miles long train that holds up traffic, from what I can see we're not a hardcore party crowd that is out causing issues with law enforcement, in the limited time we're in Moab we all need to by gas, ice, daily food and most that I know eat out at least a few times so thus we are contribute to the local economy and tax base. Overall I like to think that our event, organizers, participants and sponsors are well meaning and honorable people that simply want to do the right thing while not having to jump through undo hoops and issues.
I'm from a resort area, I've literally had punk kids come out of a bar and jump on the back of my brand new truck doing some sort of parkour tricks as I drive down the street, When confronted I was the bad guy somehow as they're just here to have a good time. I've listened to loud music from parties until all hours of the night, watched fireworks be set off in a drought year for 4th of July because their just here to have a good time and what's the big deal. I've been unable to find camping places locally for scouts due to so many people being here since it is a destination resort and recreation area.
My wife doesn't come to many of these events, her day to day dealings are politics and the changing winds in the governmental world due to her/our business leasing land and facilities from the local City. She expressed to me last night that she was pretty put off by some of the attitudes and conversations that we had both privately and publicly this weekend over the permits and processes. She's usually a pretty even keeled type and see's through some of the fuzziness pretty well so I take that comment from her seriously.
All that said:
We passed the threshold of needing a BLM permit early in the events life, when we realized this the permit was procured and the process was honored.
We have now passed both the Grand County and City of Moab thresholds for a permits and or licenses and we should honor those processes just as the BLM process was honored.
I guess the frustrations and issues arise in dealing with what seems like I will say that the wording in the county ordinance is somewhat confusing and ambiguous;
Actual wording from the ordinance below:
“Special Event” shall mean a sporting, cultural, entertainment, commercial, or similar gathering or activity, whether for profit or nonprofit, whether open to the public or not, whether located on private or public land (including trails), occurring for a limited duration not to exceed thirty (30) consecutive days; and:
i. Where Daily Total Attendance may exceed one hundred persons;
ii. Noise that is prohibited by Title 11 of the Grand County General Ordinances may be used or created (the “Noise Ordinance”);
iii. The County Commission determines that the proposed event will result in identifiable impacts to county services or the health, welfare, peace, comfort, or safety of Grand County residents or visitors; or,
iv. Any event available to the public that requires the full or partial closure of a public right of way or use of public property."
We fulfill in some way the need for a special permit, the process to get that permit obviously needs work as both ourselves, the county staff, and the county commissioners noted in that meeting.
The event likely has needed more permits and licenses than we have known about for some time. We CAN NOT be upset by this fact, our ignorance isn't an excuse either, it's not the responsibility of the Authority Having Jurisdiction (AHJ), Grand County commissioners or staff in this case, to track us down. The AHJ has the ultimate say and we need to be prepared to understand their process, work within those boundaries and do our own research on those processes. I know the above because my professional life has me working closely with very restrictive building practices in the local County and City.
I have first hand knowledge of the frustrations that go with weaving through the process with governmental agencies, staff turns over regularly, because many ordinances and "rules" are driven by who is in charge, (elected officials), there are constant updates and changes to the processes, and the staff while helpful are not going to stick their neck out very far to help someone out if the outcome could paint them in a bad light at all. To give you an idea of what I deal with on a regular basis, a building permit in the Main City I work in typically takes 1 year to get, there are several rounds of reviews, lists of questions, and many times the rules might change midstream, the local County isn't much better. For comparison: a neighboring town typically provides a permit for very similar projects in 4-6 weeks.
So for the Grand County officials and or staff reading this, I get it but the process needs work and the county commissioners shouldn't be reviewing special use permits for events that are as small as ours, this should be an approval at Staff levels. Additionally there should be the ability for multiple small events of differing types to be approved and held concurrently. It's understandable that you don't want every month to be filled to the brim with special events, however the fact that any "commercial, or similar gathering or activity" is a permittable event you MUST be prepared to approve many permits to be held concurrently. As an example, how would the sky diving event and our Blazer Bash be viewed if they were happening concurrently? I argue they can be held at the same time and NOT have a negative impact on your county. They are separate genre's so to say and wouldn't interfere with each other at all. Perhaps the Hummer event that was denied and BB would be a conflict though, again however it sounds like that would still only be approx. 75 vehicles. That's not a lot of vehicles spread out over the local area. These are not Easter Jeep Safari or the classic car show sized events, these are small down to earth events that have limited advertisement and participation as compared with other events.
For those that stuck with me through the above,
In the same light we're asking the AHJ to be better, we also need to be better, and we need to understand we're playing in someone else backyard.
EDIT: This is not in any way meant to cast a shadow on or slight the efforts put in by both Wade and Marks, in fact I hope that it helps others understand a bit of the frustrations and difficulties that they went through just to put the event on. Weaving your way through an unknown process, in short timeframes, with little direction or instruction isn't easy. They made it work, the commissioners ok'd it and we had a great event.
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Well said.
I agree with all the points made. Right now with the council requiring the change of the process in the next month and a half, nobody knows what it is going to look like just yet.
I think the article was reiterating the frustration they have over their own process but taking a little stab at the idea we came to the party way late when in all actuality Wade was on this 4 months prior and has the emails to prove it.
Fact is right now, what happened leading into 2022’s event will not be the same leading into next years event. Fighting over anything they say we did or didn’t do for 2022 is NOT going to help us get approved for next year.
I intend to know the process and work close with those in the local agencies that will be responsible for it.
Again right now they don’t even know what that is. And I can fully predict whatever process they establish may not be perfect either and will require tweaking along the way. I’m going to have to stay on top of that so there’s no surprise late in the game. As Wade has done keeping direct contact with those that actually will be the ones working the process will be critical to the success.
Until the process is published nobody can guess what it will be like. We just need them to set the process and we can work with them.
I think the article was reiterating the frustration they have over their own process but taking a little stab at the idea we came to the party way late when in all actuality Wade was on this 4 months prior and has the emails to prove it.
Fact is right now, what happened leading into 2022’s event will not be the same leading into next years event. Fighting over anything they say we did or didn’t do for 2022 is NOT going to help us get approved for next year.
I intend to know the process and work close with those in the local agencies that will be responsible for it.
Again right now they don’t even know what that is. And I can fully predict whatever process they establish may not be perfect either and will require tweaking along the way. I’m going to have to stay on top of that so there’s no surprise late in the game. As Wade has done keeping direct contact with those that actually will be the ones working the process will be critical to the success.
Until the process is published nobody can guess what it will be like. We just need them to set the process and we can work with them.
Smile Like a donut, hoserI don't think they care
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Well said Miniwally! Itoo have been involved for several years in the approval of permits for various events and have had to call up groups and advise of sudden changes in the requirements. Bottom line the AHJ sets the rules and guidelines and if you wish to have permitted event you have to ride the wave and comply or risk penalties and ramifications for not following the requirements. I have also been involved in shutting down events that tried to go without a permit and handing out the consequences the non-compliant group earned. It is much easier to make the moves needed to follow the guidelines and I have even assisted groups who showed they wanted to follow the rules when they applied for a permit that I oversaw by putting them in touch with companies that provide the goods or services they needed.
As a group asking to be allowed to have an event it would be wise to ask for all requirements up front, which I know has been occurring, and seek the cooperation of the AHJ in assisting to make sure we are in compliance. I have even been invited to the events that I oversaw the permitting process and they asked what can we do better next year. Those events always got their permits.
As a group asking to be allowed to have an event it would be wise to ask for all requirements up front, which I know has been occurring, and seek the cooperation of the AHJ in assisting to make sure we are in compliance. I have even been invited to the events that I oversaw the permitting process and they asked what can we do better next year. Those events always got their permits.
So is 2023 a sure thing yet?
I plan on it to happen. Can’t do anything for the permits yet but the groundwork is getting done.
Thanks for the update!!
So I see on fb that Utah has instituted a training and permit requirement for all off highway vehicle drivers and all street legal OHVs. The course is available starting Jan 1st enforcement beginning Feb 1st.
It said that all out of state drivers must take the online course AND buy a permit. This is apparently a new hurdle.
It does say that an organized OHV event is exempt, however.
It said that all out of state drivers must take the online course AND buy a permit. This is apparently a new hurdle.
It does say that an organized OHV event is exempt, however.
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At least it's once in a lifetime I guess.
There's bad driving in Moab all over YouTube, you're a click away from watching a Jeep roll over backwards on an obstacle.
There's bad driving in Moab all over YouTube, you're a click away from watching a Jeep roll over backwards on an obstacle.
Glad they told those of us who live in utah about this. This is the first I've heard about it. Another way for the state to make money by ticketing those who have no idea about it.
says "sanctioned off road event" I am guessing they an organized race put on by a parent organization, like Score, or Norra. Not Blazer Bash, or Jeep Safari weekend.
