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Brake pedal pushes back??????

Got my tube doors and tire carrier back from powder coat. Got those put on tonight. Tomorrow is when the speed bleeders come in. First thing after work, I'm going to bleed the system again using those. I really like the idea of the thread sealant it comes with. I fear air was getting past the bleeder threads. Here's hoping I find massive amounts of air. Otherwise, I'll be installing your master and prop valve probably on Friday.
 
I suggest you wait until after you check the pressures before you put on the prop valve.
Actually, I hope you can check the pressures before you do many changes at all. Like I say, a prop valve only restricts pressure and causes less braking to a too sensitive system.
If you have larger rear calipers, it can make overall braking better by letting more pressure go to the fronts before the rears lock up.

But, if that was your problem, you would have one axle or the other locking up, definitely not your problem here........
 
Agree.
Oh yeah, and the pressure tester IS coming in with the bleeders. I'll test what I have before doing anything else. Then I'll try bleeding it one last time before I start pulling things apart again. :(
 
As was mentioned before, a proportioning valve is required if one axle is locking up before the other. My rear brakes were locking up so I put an adjuster and dialed back the pressure a bit.
 
One thought I had last night was pad bedding.

I have never done it to a street vehicle before but when we went to the nice Brakeman calipers and wilwood pads on the race car we were advised that we had to spend a good bit of time bedding the pads in. Basically it's a process of light braking moving into really heavy braking over time, allowing for complete pad and rotor cool down between sessions.

We started with brakes that we thought were marginally better than the old "stock" setup and ended with brakes that would lock up a 42" sticky tire in tacky dirt. It was a big change.

Since your trying to do all this work and checking your brakes with the truck on Jack stands can you get it someplace that you can do 25 mph to 0 stops, then 40 to 0 then 60 to 0 with some cooling session in between. All with light braking to heavy braking.

You have all the same parts that other guys use with success, you either have air in the lines, pad issues or you might be more selective and sensitive to braking force and function than others?
 
I don't follow any schedule for pads. I simply take it easy for the first couple days of driving. Mind you it's all street driving. I wouldn't go out and race a vehicle. I figured if glazing was to happen, it's because I stopped suddenly with new pads. My DD has excellent brakes. Dunno

I'm definitely not over stating my problem. Chris can attest to that. If I don't lock my front hubs and run 4L (meaning, only the rear brakes can stop the movement of the tires in 4L) it wont stop the tires from spinning in the air.

Unfortunately I've been swamped at work. I also haven't gotten my pressure tester yet :( Going to hit this HARD over the weekend.

Also, I've reserved an Enterprise F250 diesel and a Uhaul trailer for Sept 2nd!!! It's foking ON BITCHES!!
 
Brakes are what keeps you from ending up on Youtube with the whole world shaking their heads at you. :D

If there is one place I need brakes more than anywhere, it's Moab. I've been in LA traffic and haven't killed anyone, so that's good. Dunes and mud too, but not step rock cliffs.

I know it was a joke, so have been my brakes, but I've known my limit. Moab is beyond that limit. :(
 
So the pressure gauge isn't getting here till Monday :( So I don't know how much pressure is getting to the calipers. Which also means I'm still just "parts changing" at this point.

Put the speed bleeders on and might have gotten a bubble, if any. Brakes still suck. Also, the rear calipers only had one brand for bleeders = Dorman. The fronts I was happy to pay the $1 extra for some Russell bleeders. Guess what. The Russell foking bleeders leak a very small amount, both of them!!! The Dorman's, none whatsoever.

So in the morning I'm swinging by a parts warehouse and asking for their softest pads they carry. Gunna throw those on and see what happens. If things still suck, I have the booster/master/prop valve from ReadyMix's old K30 truck. He says even with 42s, it stop nearly as good as his Avalanche. So, I'll be swapping a good known combination. After that, if things still suck, that gasoline and a match will be sounding awfully good.
 
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Well, that really sucks. I have been looking forward to finding out the pressures. The softer pads will help no matter what if they have more friction than what you have now.
Any idea what the diameter of ReadyMix's master is compared to yours?
If its smaller, then you are going to see an increase in pad pressure which is going to help too.
 
If its smaller, then you are going to see an increase in pad pressure which is going to help too.

J, I'm not sure what the diameter is. I just know it's a 1 ton master with plastic reservoir. However, I worry about using a smaller diameter bore. With the truck running, it seems I'm using 90% of the pedal travel just to hold the brakes. Seems like I need more volume, so I don't have to use so much stroke/ pedal travel to push enough fluid. Then again, I've used the big 1999 hydroboost master cylinder and it's an incredibly hard pedal with no brakes.

Dunno, I'm in desperation mode. I can't hardly think about it, nothing makes sense. Seems like a freaking joke that my sh1t wont work with the same stuff everyone else uses. I have a hard time believing the pads will help. How can pads help pedal travel and feel, over semi-metalic pads I've used on other cars without problem? If I'm after a softer pad, how is that going to stiffin up the pedal feel?

Going to keep hitting it hard, all weekend. I really hope something changes. :(
 
I feel like you just answered your own question a little. You said the one master gave you a super hard pedal but bad brakes still. And another gave you a mushy long travel pedal with still bad brakes. The only thing at this point that isnt the same as everyone else is the pads. Hard pedal, but brakes? All signs point to pads!
 
Well, the warehouse doesn't have organic pads, can't get them.

Only AcDelco for the D60 and PosiQuiet for the rears. Would cost ~$90 for the set. Most of my stuff uses PosiQuiet.

:(

EDIT: Oreilly doesn't have them either. Only Wagner or house brand in semi-metalic
 
Summit Racing carries a brand that sells Organic pads, but they are on back order till AFTER blazer bash LOL
 
Frankly I doubt its the pads--unless they are made of teflon or all oil soaked or something,any pad should work, provided your applying enough clamping force to the calipers,in my opinion...I think there is something else thats been overlooked..
 
OK, here is the thing. Disk brakes use a massive amount more fluid in total than drum.
Think about the size difference between a drum brake cylinder and a disk brake caliper.
But, they can be set up so that they use way less per stroke. The reason being the amount of travel the friction surfaces have to do between the two types.

Modern drum brakes are self-actuating. They use the rotational force of the wheels to help them apply more binding force to the drum. All the wheel cylinder does is move them out to touch the drums.
That is why you can get away with such small cylinders. But, it is also the reason you cannot let the shoes touch the drum much at all when not braking.

Calipers are not self-actuating, so the pads can be right up against the rotor with no problems.
Which means even though it takes a lot more fluid to fill the calipers, once they are filled, only a very small amount is needed to move the pads out to full contact.
As the pads wear, the calipers move out more and do not retract as much. But the difference from stroke to stroke is tiny, and is made up when you release the brakes each time.
That is why disk brakes have more fluid in the tank than drum, and why you can get an idea of the amount of wear on your pads by looking at the fluid level.

Its also the reason my Ford brake pedal starts getting lower and lower as the rear brakes wear during hunting season.
The adjusters freeze up due to mud, and the brake cylinders have to move farther and farther out to apply the brakes.
Every so often I slide under and manually adjust them and get my pedal back.

That is also the reason I was asking if there was excessive clearance between the pads and rotors.
Given the size of the calipers, it would not take much drawback to cause excessive pedal travel.
It would not take more than one to do it. That is usually caused by either an overly stiff rubber boot on the caliper that makes the piston retract too far, too much runout on the rotor that drives the pads apart, or a problem with the master that caused some suction on the system when you release the pedal.

If you get too much pedal travel with the smaller cylinder, you can add some of the pressure retaining valves to the system to hold the pistons out.
Many masters have them built in, 2 pounds seems to be standard. Also one of the reasons some masters have to be changed when switching to disks.

Right now, the obvious problem you have is not enough clamping force at the pads.
Whether its caused by air, too much rubber, wrong master size, too weak legs, or fairy farts is only important as to fixing the problem.
Brake pads can only be a patch. Oil soaked pads, Teflon, wood, solid steel, I don't care what those pads are made of, if you clamp them hard enough on that rotor, its going to stop.

Which is why I was so looking forward to the pressure gauges. They will give an accurate reading as to how much clamping pressure should be being applied to the rotor.
If you have a hard pedal with no boost, then you have no air in the system. If you also have low pressure at the calipers, then the master is too big.
Of course, the leverage factor at the pedal makes a difference, but you have not changed that, so I assume we can ignore it.
Plus I assume your legs will support your body weight, so I don't think the wimp factor comes into play..........:D.

All in all, if you get enough pressure at the calipers, we can get pedal travel back with check valves if we need it.
 
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