Wait, this focking gauge kit leaks through the threads. Their flare must be wrong, WTF
CK5
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Brake pedal pushes back??????
- Thread starter K85 Octane
- Start date
Fronts achieve same results, except without the bleed off since the front adapter was apparently made correctly. Lol
All 4 corners tested the same
All 4 corners tested the same
The pedal feels terrible. I mean TERRIBLE. And before I posted, I had 3k miles on the pads. They include trips to the mountains, dunes, freeway driving, stop and go street driving, and most importantly MANY panic stops dealing with Los Angeles drivers.
I'll throw the tires on and go racing around the neighborhood if that helps. Only problem.......... I've already done that many times.
But I'll do it again.
Now the question is.... should I still try to plug the master's rear or front ports? I have the plugs to do it. Just not sure how that will help.
y5mgisi
1 ton status
I'm not sure if those numbers are good. I would think so? Have you done some googling to see?
800-1500, 1500+ for a panic stop it seems
y5mgisi
1 ton status
Interesting.
When I was doing some previous caliper research I read that the average OEM caliper will begin to se excessive flex above like 1200psi. Of course that's a very general thing. Your pressures are just slightly below what I was expecting you to post up. I was thinking you would have 900psi with a ok push and spike to 1200psi for hard braking with the highest pressures being seen in a total panic of 1500 (you might not be able to make that happen even with a hard push)
That being said those pressures aren't alarming to me either way.
I don't know what a terrible feeling pedal means. There's different feels for different issues. EDIT; I'm not trying to be an ass, I understand that a terrible feeling pedal is not good but let's use better descriptions than terrible and diarrhea. Those don't speak to what your really feeling nor do they aid in helping figure this out.
Excessive pedal travel is caused by air in the lines or too small of master cylinder or a leak. Typically a small master will make high pressure and a larger master will make lower pressure for a given pedal input. Due to the smaller size the smaller master will have to travel more distance before filling the caliper thus the longer pedal travel.
I know that you know all this as well
If you stab the pedal hard three times in a row does it firm up and get harder to push?
If you stab the pedal four or five times fast what happens?
If you push as hard as you can and hold the pedal does it just stay there or slowly creep?
If the pedal doesn't travel as far as you think it should the master is too large OR the booster is too small (probably not the case)
Does your pressure gauge hook up to each caliper location or just to the front and rear main lines?
Jack Daniel:
The pedal has excessive travel. It is also very easy to push down all the way with my hand, super easy with a foot. (with the engine running) It will go down and hit a very hard spot. I can push harder but it doesn't go down much more after that. If I crack a bleeder, the pedal WILL hit the floor.
I say diarrhea because it's funny. I'm trying very hard to not implode right now. You want to push a brake pedal that feels like a block of white cheese. It will compress and stop the vehicle but also give you that confidence you can always press harder, compressing the cheese more, and stop better. -------- My pedal feels like diarrhea.
The current MC is from ReadyMix's truck, which was a 1 ton setup. The previous MC was also from a K30. These are 1 5/16 bore MCs.
I don't have a leak as the fluid level hasn't changed and I don't see wet spots.
2) same as above ^^^
3) it will stay as long as I'm in 2wd, or 4L on flat ground. Anything outside of this and it will roll. The truck IS drivable, it's just never been very safe.
The pedal has excessive travel. It is also very easy to push down all the way with my hand, super easy with a foot. (with the engine running) It will go down and hit a very hard spot. I can push harder but it doesn't go down much more after that. If I crack a bleeder, the pedal WILL hit the floor.
I say diarrhea because it's funny. I'm trying very hard to not implode right now. You want to push a brake pedal that feels like a block of white cheese. It will compress and stop the vehicle but also give you that confidence you can always press harder, compressing the cheese more, and stop better. -------- My pedal feels like diarrhea.
The current MC is from ReadyMix's truck, which was a 1 ton setup. The previous MC was also from a K30. These are 1 5/16 bore MCs.
I don't have a leak as the fluid level hasn't changed and I don't see wet spots.
1) it will get harder for a split second and then go down like it has been
2) same as above ^^^
3) it will stay as long as I'm in 2wd, or 4L on flat ground. Anything outside of this and it will roll. The truck IS drivable, it's just never been very safe.
screws in place of the bleeders and I record what it does with my phone. lol
Jack Daniel:
The pedal has excessive travel. It is also very easy to push down all the way with my hand, super easy with a foot. (with the engine running) It will go down and hit a very hard spot. I can push harder but it doesn't go down much more after that. If I crack a bleeder, the pedal WILL hit the floor.
I say diarrhea because it's funny. I'm trying very hard to not implode right now. You want to push a brake pedal that feels like a block of white cheese. It will compress and stop the vehicle but also give you that confidence you can always press harder, compressing the cheese more, and stop better. -------- My pedal feels like diarrhea.
The current MC is from ReadyMix's truck, which was a 1 ton setup. The previous MC was also from a K30. These are 1 5/16 bore MCs.
I don't have a leak as the fluid level hasn't changed and I don't see wet spots.
1) it will get harder for a split second and then go down like it has been
2) same as above ^^^
3) it will stay as long as I'm in 2wd, or 4L on flat ground. Anything outside of this and it will roll. The truck IS drivable, it's just never been very safe.
screws in place of the bleeders and I record what it does with my phone. lol
For number 3 what I meant was pedal creep, not vehicle creep.
Automatic transmission or manual?
1 and 2 tell me air.
sorry
I can't say I remember any creep in the pedal. Do you want the engine running or off? I'll give it a test right now. It is an auto.
The problem with being told it's air, is how many different people have tried to fix this truck. It is always possible, but after a few shops and myself bleeding these, that would be one hell of a stubborn air pocket. I'll bleed the rest of my 2 gallons worth, just not sure if there's a better way of doing it so the outcome is different
I'm trying very hard to not give up right now and I hope when folks are reading my replies I don't come off as an ass. I'm not out to argue, definitely not out to argue. I'm just extremely frustrated. I'm keeping my distance from the brakes right now and focused on storage/ spare parts/ and tool gathering.
The problem with being told it's air, is how many different people have tried to fix this truck. It is always possible, but after a few shops and myself bleeding these, that would be one hell of a stubborn air pocket. I'll bleed the rest of my 2 gallons worth, just not sure if there's a better way of doing it so the outcome is different
I'm trying very hard to not give up right now and I hope when folks are reading my replies I don't come off as an ass. I'm not out to argue, definitely not out to argue. I'm just extremely frustrated. I'm keeping my distance from the brakes right now and focused on storage/ spare parts/ and tool gathering.
I can't say I remember any creep in the pedal. Do you want the engine running or off? I'll give it a test right now. It is an auto.
The problem with being told it's air, is how many different people have tried to fix this truck. It is always possible, but after a few shops and myself bleeding these, that would be one hell of a stubborn air pocket. I'll bleed the rest of my 2 gallons worth, just not sure if there's a better way of doing it so the outcome is different
I'm trying very hard to not give up right now and I hope when folks are reading my replies I don't come off as an ass. I'm not out to argue, definitely not out to argue. I'm just extremely frustrated. I'm keeping my distance from the brakes right now and focused on storage/ spare parts/ and tool gathering.
The engine running or not shouldn't matter, what I'm looking for is if the master cylinder has an internal leak which shows up when you just push and hold the pedal, after a few seconds you will feel it moving very slowly.
Auto, what trans, what stall torque converter? There is a slim possibility that you don't have a brake issue and your torque converter is pushing through the brakes. This is the way my buggy was before a higher stall converter and badass brake calipers.
Stabbing the brakes and getting a firmer pedal is the best indicator of air. Trust me it's isn't always easy to get it out, especially with only one guy. Another way to try this is to remove each caliper and push the pads back in to force the brake fluid up and out the master. We do that a lot and it will amaze you that there is air in the line.
I also would say throw it on the trailer and drive to Moab. You might just have good brakes when it get's there.
OK, I just crawled off a boat, been fishing all day, and I am hungry, sunburned, and very tired.
BUT.
Sorry to ask this, but I am just too tired to read back right now. Have you run that master cylinder that is on there yet?
Those pressures sound good. They might be a little better, but that should stop you.
If you have not actually tried that MC on the road yet, I would do so. I also would possibly expect a slightly soft or spongy pedal while the pressure gauge is hooked up.
Ignoring the leaks caused by the gauge its self on the rear, if the front ones hit say, 1000 and hold it, then I say you do not have air in that part, and the master cylinder is doing its job.
Both in pressure delivered to the calipers, and no leak by.
If you are getting solid numbers on the front, and can plug the rear, I would do so and see if you cannot slide the fronts.
I swear that 1000 psi should stop you if the calipers are moving.
BUT.
Sorry to ask this, but I am just too tired to read back right now. Have you run that master cylinder that is on there yet?
Those pressures sound good. They might be a little better, but that should stop you.
If you have not actually tried that MC on the road yet, I would do so. I also would possibly expect a slightly soft or spongy pedal while the pressure gauge is hooked up.
Ignoring the leaks caused by the gauge its self on the rear, if the front ones hit say, 1000 and hold it, then I say you do not have air in that part, and the master cylinder is doing its job.
Both in pressure delivered to the calipers, and no leak by.
If you are getting solid numbers on the front, and can plug the rear, I would do so and see if you cannot slide the fronts.
I swear that 1000 psi should stop you if the calipers are moving.
y5mgisi
1 ton status
I'm half way hoping you show up to moab and someone wants to swap you front calipers and pads to try. Everything really does scream air, but it would make no sense.
First thing I'm doing tomorrow morning is going over some of the stuff Fordum and Mini was talking about. That way I have some better answers.
My trans is a 700. I didn't build it so I'm not sure what the TC is. I texted the shop owner and he said it's a stock replacement that's beefed up or something. Don't quote me on that, I don't want him looking like an idiot when it should be me. I thought he used a newer TC, like off a 90s TBI truck or something. Can't remember.
I think what I'll try is messing with the calipers and pads some more. The pads are still almost new, so the pistons haven't moved out much yet. Like Miniwally was mentioning, moving the pistons in and all, I'm going to put a block in the caliper and push the brake pedal till the piston extends outward. Make sure it can move out ~3/4". Then I'll push it back in. I'll do that to each corner.
J: The master and booster come from ReadyMix's truck, a proven combo. I hasn't been used in a while but it was wet inside and holes leaked fluid.
So it probably hasn't been dry rotting away.
My trans is a 700. I didn't build it so I'm not sure what the TC is. I texted the shop owner and he said it's a stock replacement that's beefed up or something. Don't quote me on that, I don't want him looking like an idiot when it should be me. I thought he used a newer TC, like off a 90s TBI truck or something. Can't remember.
I think what I'll try is messing with the calipers and pads some more. The pads are still almost new, so the pistons haven't moved out much yet. Like Miniwally was mentioning, moving the pistons in and all, I'm going to put a block in the caliper and push the brake pedal till the piston extends outward. Make sure it can move out ~3/4". Then I'll push it back in. I'll do that to each corner.
J: The master and booster come from ReadyMix's truck, a proven combo. I hasn't been used in a while but it was wet inside and holes leaked fluid.
So it probably hasn't been dry rotting away.First thing I'm doing tomorrow morning is going over some of the stuff Fordum and Mini was talking about. That way I have some better answers.
My trans is a 700. I didn't build it so I'm not sure what the TC is. I texted the shop owner and he said it's a stock replacement that's beefed up or something. Don't quote me on that, I don't want him looking like an idiot when it should be me. I thought he used a newer TC, like off a 90s TBI truck or something. Can't remember.
I think what I'll try is messing with the calipers and pads some more. The pads are still almost new, so the pistons haven't moved out much yet. Like Miniwally was mentioning, moving the pistons in and all, I'm going to put a block in the caliper and push the brake pedal till the piston extends outward. Make sure it can move out ~3/4". Then I'll push it back in. I'll do that to each corner.
J: The master and booster come from ReadyMix's truck, a proven combo. I hasn't been used in a while but it was wet inside and holes leaked fluid.
Make sure to bleed each caliper well once you push the pistons out onto the block.
Actually, I was not even considering that the master might be bad, I was thinking it might have fixed or improved the situation.
I was wondering if you had tried the truck with it on there.
I don't know what the dia of the front pistons are, but 1000# should stop those wheels from turning better than you have shown.
I was wondering if that might be the first time you had that much pressure.
I know what Mini is saying about the TC, and I could see where that would cause a problem.
But I don't think its the case here for one reason.
If the TC is not slipping enough, it might cause you to overpower the brakes, but you have to consider where that power is coming from.
I had a friend with a Mustang with an auto, and he kept telling me there was something wrong with the engine.
Every time he pulled up to a stop sign, it stalled. Also, it kept stalling when he put it in gear.
I checked, and the engine sounded great. I dropped it into drive, and the car started to roll, and when I hit the brakes, it stalled. In a real familiar way.
Ever forget to push the clutch in when you try to stop a manual car?
I told him the problem was not the engine, it was the transmission. The TC had locked up.
He assured me I was nuts, until the whole tranny took a dump about 600 miles later.
Unfortunately, he was 600 miles from home when it happened........
If your TC was too "strong" the engine should lug down or stall when you hit the brakes at idle.
An idling engine should not be strong enough to overpower normal brakes, unless maybe its a top fuel dragster.........
I was wondering if you had tried the truck with it on there.
I don't know what the dia of the front pistons are, but 1000# should stop those wheels from turning better than you have shown.
I was wondering if that might be the first time you had that much pressure.
I know what Mini is saying about the TC, and I could see where that would cause a problem.
But I don't think its the case here for one reason.
If the TC is not slipping enough, it might cause you to overpower the brakes, but you have to consider where that power is coming from.
I had a friend with a Mustang with an auto, and he kept telling me there was something wrong with the engine.
Every time he pulled up to a stop sign, it stalled. Also, it kept stalling when he put it in gear.
I checked, and the engine sounded great. I dropped it into drive, and the car started to roll, and when I hit the brakes, it stalled. In a real familiar way.
Ever forget to push the clutch in when you try to stop a manual car?
I told him the problem was not the engine, it was the transmission. The TC had locked up.
He assured me I was nuts, until the whole tranny took a dump about 600 miles later.
Unfortunately, he was 600 miles from home when it happened........
If your TC was too "strong" the engine should lug down or stall when you hit the brakes at idle.
An idling engine should not be strong enough to overpower normal brakes, unless maybe its a top fuel dragster.........
OH, and for God's sake don't give up now. We all have too much time and effort invested in this thing to not resolve it.
I have twice priced airfare to your area, and I live in Fl. for Petes sake!
Plus, I have never been to BB before, and don't have any equipment set up for that kind of use even if I did.
Nor the time or money to go. But if you were to go without that thing fixed, I would have a real hard time not being there when they started working on it.
And BTW, I'm sure this has come up already, but which end of the MC goes to which axle?
There is a big difference in the front and rear ports, and I have seen poor braking caused by swapping them.
I have twice priced airfare to your area, and I live in Fl. for Petes sake!
Plus, I have never been to BB before, and don't have any equipment set up for that kind of use even if I did.
Nor the time or money to go. But if you were to go without that thing fixed, I would have a real hard time not being there when they started working on it.
And BTW, I'm sure this has come up already, but which end of the MC goes to which axle?
There is a big difference in the front and rear ports, and I have seen poor braking caused by swapping them.
I forgot to check pedal creep before I pulled the pads off and put a 2x4 in. I'll have to remember that.
The master has a much larger reservoir in the rear, which is my 1/2" port leading to the fronts. The rear is the forward 9/16" port and smaller rezzy.
I noticed last time the calipers were pulled. How can I fix the rubber? Also, it took close to 15-20 pumps to get the piston out this far. Does that sound right?
The master has a much larger reservoir in the rear, which is my 1/2" port leading to the fronts. The rear is the forward 9/16" port and smaller rezzy.
I noticed last time the calipers were pulled. How can I fix the rubber? Also, it took close to 15-20 pumps to get the piston out this far. Does that sound right?
J: I've got a seat specifically for YOU if you come out. Might be a scary ride though lol
