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Broke the U-Joint Bolt in the Pinion Yoke....

jeff in co

jeff in co

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Got the new u-joints installed in the rear driveshaft and I go to reinstall everything. Checked my Chiltons to find out the torque setting for the u-joint and I read 75 ft-lbs. Seemed high but I though...ok. Well, obviously it's NOT 75 ft-lbs....more like 15 ft-lbs! :doah:

I found out the hard way when one of the bolts sheared off inside the Pinion yoke. Well, now I'm mad and can't believe it.:(

After staring at it for awhile, I decide I can carefully drill out the bolt and then clean the threads out with a threading tool. Everything was going good...enlarged the hole almost to the threads and then started cleaning it out. Sure enough, my tapping tool breaks off in the yoke! I tried drilling and then hitting with a punch....nothing. That metal is so hard I broke off 4 drill bits and the end of my punch broke off too!

A simple job has now turned into a new pinion yoke! I'm so mad!

I guess the best way is to hit the junkyard and pull one off another truck. Now mine just sits in the garage...unable to move.

My new concern now is getting the pinion yoke off another truck and re-installing on mine correctly. If I mark my pinion nut and thread, would this still be valid for a new yoke from another truck or do I need to go through some elaborate pinion setup?

Do I also need a special puller to get the yoke off?

So frustrating!!!
 
On one hand you have the shade tree way of counting the turns and tightening the other one down. On the other hand you have the "proper" way of going through the whole used pinion bearing setup procedure. It sucks doesn't it? but most people do use the shade tree way of using the parking break or what not and tighten the pinion nut till it gets tight and leaving it at that. Just use a puller to pull it off and a ratchet if you chose to do it that way so you can feel how tight it gets. Honestly you can use a steering wheel puller but its a PITA to keep it centered.
 
Too bad I just seen this post otherwise I could have saved you ALOT of frustration. Now you're going to have to replace the Yoke and it will require a new crush sleeve to do the job properly. This also means taking the rearend apart to do it if it's anything other than a 14FF.
 
4X4HIGH said:
Too bad I just seen this post otherwise I could have saved you ALOT of frustration. Now you're going to have to replace the Yoke and it will require a new crush sleeve to do the job properly. This also means taking the rearend apart to do it if it's anything other than a 14FF.
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Great to hear about taking the rear end apart.:dunno: Yes, it's the standard gm rear end from the factory.

I've never done it and don't really know how. If I can't just take a yoke off a salvaged truck without properly setting it up then my next option would be taking it to the dealer. This is going to be expensive.....
 
Honestly if you read up on it and researching alot about ring and pinion setup and you'll be fine. You don't have to mess with the backlash. Just pull the carrier/ring gear out and then undo the pinion nut use a brass drift to knock out the pinion put a new crush sleeve on it. Look up the torque spec for a used pinion bearing(I'm guessing 5-10 rotational in-lbs, but look it up to be exact). Hold the yoke crush the sleeve and messure the amount of force to keep it rotating (rotational inch pounds, using a beam type torque wrench is what I use). Stake the pinion nut and put the carrier back in with the shims on the correct side, check your backlash just to be sure. Then bolt the cover on and fill it full of lube and take it for a spin after you put the driveshaft back in it. Its alot easier than it sounds might take you an hour or so. But just post up on here with any questions and you will be fine.
 
Realistically the only reason you'll need a new crush sleeve is if when you put the new yoke on you over crush your old one.
 
OK, I'll throw it out there.

A few weeks ago quite a few CK5 members got together on a Saturday to install a lift for a fellow CK5er. Besides the lift, "everyone" helped install new front pads, new rear shoes and finally, a new pinion seal.

The rear axle was leaking just a bit so they decided to go ahead and replace it too, during all the upgrades. I certainly didn't do it but I did watch what they did.

From what I recall, they counted the threads, marked the nut and bolt and then removed the pinion nut. Then the pinion yoke and then the seal. They installed the new seal and then re-installed the yoke and nut. I remember them discussing the number of thread showing to be sure they got it to the same point. Throughout this whole process, they never took there rear diff cover off.

If I am only replacing the yoke (not the seal) is it necessary to get all the way into the diff? Why didn't these guys do that (what's the difference if any)?

Chilton's explains measuring the rotational torque before removal and then when re-installing match that same rotation torque (also mark the threads and nut). They recommend going +3 more in-lbs past the original reading (or ft-lbs.....don't recall off hand).
 
I'd throw a new yoke and seal in it,, tighten the pinion nut down and call it done...

If it's a 12 bolt,,,the scrap yards are full of them....if it craters on ya...your out a seal and yoke...:dunno:
 
jeff in co said:
OK, I'll throw it out there.

A few weeks ago quite a few CK5 members got together on a Saturday to install a lift for a fellow CK5er. Besides the lift, "everyone" helped install new front pads, new rear shoes and finally, a new pinion seal.

The rear axle was leaking just a bit so they decided to go ahead and replace it too, during all the upgrades. I certainly didn't do it but I did watch what they did.

From what I recall, they counted the threads, marked the nut and bolt and then removed the pinion nut. Then the pinion yoke and then the seal. They installed the new seal and then re-installed the yoke and nut. I remember them discussing the number of thread showing to be sure they got it to the same point. Throughout this whole process, they never took there rear diff cover off.

If I am only replacing the yoke (not the seal) is it necessary to get all the way into the diff? Why didn't these guys do that (what's the difference if any)?

Chilton's explains measuring the rotational torque before removal and then when re-installing match that same rotation torque (also mark the threads and nut). They recommend going +3 more in-lbs past the original reading (or ft-lbs.....don't recall off hand).
Click to expand...


Alright the reason that some rears dont matter and some rears you need to take apart or count the threads is because of whats known as a crush collar or crush sleeve.

What a crush sleeve does is set how much pressure is on the pinion bearings much like when you do wheel bearings and tighten the nut down.

The pressure or "preload" on the crush sleeve is set based on how tight the pinion nut/yoke is tightened. So when you remove the pinion nut and yoke to replace the seal you basically remove all the preload from the sleeve completely loosening the pre-load on the pinion bearings.

Now in order to fully understand this you would have to research the procedure for setting the pinion bearing preload. You would then understand why you cant "properly" set the preload again without installing a new crush collar and going through the proper procedure.

Now the incorrect or "shade tree" way to do it is to count the threads and mark the nut. That way when you re-install the yoke and nut you line it up with the proper thread count and give it another 1/8 o a turn and you're done.

The reason for this is because if you over crush the collar your bearings will be super loose and fail within miles.

Some rears, most danas, 14bolts I believe and some others have a solid spacer instead of a crush collar. You can easily tear the yoke off and retighten it down to a torque spec because the spacer is solid and uses shims much like setting up pinion depth or backlash to get the correct pinion bearing preload. Because of this the preload goes back to the same measurement everytime you torque the nut.


If I was vague on anything or you dont get it feel free to ask.
 
I'd have used a torch to blow out the busted tap,drilled the threads out,and put a nut on a longer bolt to hold the u-joint in it...a tap will blow away like a sparkler before the surrounding metal gets hot enough to melt,I've had to remove several that busted off in exhaust manifolds,etc..I "fixed" a front yoke on my old plow truck that way when I had a bolt break off in the yoke and when I drilled it I went into the threads some--so I just drilled the threads out and used a longer 5/16" bolt & nut on it --it never gave a lick of trouble..
 
Stomis said:
Alright the reason that some rears dont matter and some rears you need to take apart or count the threads is because of whats known as a crush collar or crush sleeve.

What a crush sleeve does is set how much pressure is on the pinion bearings much like when you do wheel bearings and tighten the nut down.

The pressure or "preload" on the crush sleeve is set based on how tight the pinion nut/yoke is tightened. So when you remove the pinion nut and yoke to replace the seal you basically remove all the preload from the sleeve completely loosening the pre-load on the pinion bearings.

Now in order to fully understand this you would have to research the procedure for setting the pinion bearing preload. You would then understand why you cant "properly" set the preload again without installing a new crush collar and going through the proper procedure.

Now the incorrect or "shade tree" way to do it is to count the threads and mark the nut. That way when you re-install the yoke and nut you line it up with the proper thread count and give it another 1/8 o a turn and you're done.

The reason for this is because if you over crush the collar your bearings will be super loose and fail within miles.

Some rears, most danas, 14bolts I believe and some others have a solid spacer instead of a crush collar. You can easily tear the yoke off and retighten it down to a torque spec because the spacer is solid and uses shims much like setting up pinion depth or backlash to get the correct pinion bearing preload. Because of this the preload goes back to the same measurement everytime you torque the nut.


If I was vague on anything or you dont get it feel free to ask.
Click to expand...

Great explanation and now that makes sense.....thanks! :waytogo:
 
Not sure if this is going off the original post but I must ask. If I need to replace the yoke on my 14bff, I can just count the threads and mark the pinion/nut. thats it ?
 
Stomis said:
Alright the reason that some rears dont matter and some rears you need to take apart or count the threads is because of whats known as a crush collar or crush sleeve.

What a crush sleeve does is set how much pressure is on the pinion bearings much like when you do wheel bearings and tighten the nut down.

The pressure or "preload" on the crush sleeve is set based on how tight the pinion nut/yoke is tightened. So when you remove the pinion nut and yoke to replace the seal you basically remove all the preload from the sleeve completely loosening the pre-load on the pinion bearings.

Now in order to fully understand this you would have to research the procedure for setting the pinion bearing preload. You would then understand why you cant "properly" set the preload again without installing a new crush collar and going through the proper procedure.

Now the incorrect or "shade tree" way to do it is to count the threads and mark the nut. That way when you re-install the yoke and nut you line it up with the proper thread count and give it another 1/8 o a turn and you're done.

The reason for this is because if you over crush the collar your bearings will be super loose and fail within miles.

Some rears, most danas, 14bolts I believe and some others have a solid spacer instead of a crush collar. You can easily tear the yoke off and retighten it down to a torque spec because the spacer is solid and uses shims much like setting up pinion depth or backlash to get the correct pinion bearing preload. Because of this the preload goes back to the same measurement everytime you torque the nut.


If I was vague on anything or you dont get it feel free to ask.
Click to expand...

scrappyk5 said:
Not sure if this is going off the original post but I must ask. If I need to replace the yoke on my 14bff, I can just count the threads and mark the pinion/nut. thats it ?
Click to expand...

:rolleyes: :haha:
 
jeff in co said:
Well, obviously it's NOT 75 ft-lbs....more like 15 ft-lbs! :doah:
Click to expand...


Hate to say it, but overtorquing bolts has been a BIG problem for me.

I used to snap all sorts of bolts from overtightening them.

I've gotten better, but still over do it sometimes.

When tightening by hand, with no spec.....evaluate the size of the bolt, nut, tools you are using, what material the bolt is in, etc.

Even with a 8-10" 3/8" drive ratchet, you can put a LOT of torque on a bolt. If you put 75lbs (less than 1/2 your weight), on a ratchet that long, its easy to put close to 60ft/lbs on a bolt. Fine, if you are torquing the lug's on your honda....but way overboard for smaller stuff.

On my first Diff fluid change, i was so worried about leakage, i torqued the crap out of the cover bolts. Broke 2 :(

Granted, i just had to replace a sway bar mount bolt i broke on my bimmer cause i overtightened it on my last project.


Moral of the story - Error on the loose side when you don't have specs. And Be aware.
 
dhcomp said:
Hate to say it, but overtorquing bolts has been a BIG problem for me.

I used to snap all sorts of bolts from overtightening them.

I've gotten better, but still over do it sometimes.

When tightening by hand, with no spec.....evaluate the size of the bolt, nut, tools you are using, what material the bolt is in, etc.

Even with a 8-10" 3/8" drive ratchet, you can put a LOT of torque on a bolt. If you put 75lbs (less than 1/2 your weight), on a ratchet that long, its easy to put close to 60ft/lbs on a bolt. Fine, if you are torquing the lug's on your honda....but way overboard for smaller stuff.

On my first Diff fluid change, i was so worried about leakage, i torqued the crap out of the cover bolts. Broke 2 :(

Granted, i just had to replace a sway bar mount bolt i broke on my bimmer cause i overtightened it on my last project.


Moral of the story - Error on the loose side when you don't have specs. And Be aware.
Click to expand...

Yea, I feel pretty dumb right now but glad to hear at least someone else has over torqued a bolt, too.:rolleyes:

With the torch comment above......

Although I don't own a torch, using a longer bolt and nut after removing the old stud seems like a decent idea. If they make such a thing (drill bit that could drill through the hardened steel tap) I might be able to fix it without replacing/removing the yoke. Sound reasonable?:dunno:
 
Anyway of getting it to a shop with a torch or do you have a friend with a torch that can cut it out real quick??
 
You can do that but you cant keep the fluid from draining out the output on the Tcase. Can you call around to welding shops in the area or can you just take it to a shop on a trailer and get it taken care of that way.
 
You might be able to shatter the remains of the tap with a pin punch--wear goggles,chips will fly,and so will sparks.....I've had limited success removing them that way but it might be worth a try...I've used an air chisel on them before too..

Snap-On sells tap extractor sockets that have 4 pins that fit into the flutes of the busted tap--with one of those you might be able to just unscrew it right out too...
 
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