buffer/polisher recommendations and techniques Ryoken??

Discussion in 'The Body Shop' started by gonefishin, May 7, 2020.

  1. gonefishin

    gonefishin 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    So I need an electric buffer. I've never used or owned one specifically for buffing. I'd like a decent one and I prefer to stay under $100, but for a good one I'll go more expensive if it's worth it....

    Also there are so many different pads, wool, terry cloth, different compounds, etc. I don't know what I need.

    I want to buff out some scratches in my boat's gel coat. I have several scratches from dock rash from when I let someone borrow my boat for about 6 months....

    Also I want to be able to buff out auto paint after I finish wet sanding. I have some buffing compound that I use by hand, but I'm not sure if it will work with an electric one...

    I need recommendations for everything lol
     
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  2. gonefishin

    gonefishin 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    Anyone?? Should I post in the tool section instead?
     
  3. frankin5

    frankin5 Super Mall Crawler Premium Member

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  4. ryoken

    ryoken Puppy Fabricator Premium Member GMOTM Winner

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    ok, there is a ton to this.... and many of the links will be amazon, and pricier than if shopping around.. but this is the kind of stuff i use, for reference......


    you want a rotary buffer... DA type polishers/waxers, are just that for wax removal basically.. they wont cut/compound like a rotary will for scratches, high gloss, etc.....

    you want a variable speed, 7" style... slower speeds for compounding, swirl removal, etc.. higher speeds are good for achieving high gloss with polishes, etc...

    I've always run makitas... or milwaukees.. waukees are heavy, and the most expensive... makitas run like $225... waukees are like $250.... but i would recommend a dewalt.. i think they are around $175.. i haven't run one, but a bunch of marine detailer friends are running them with good luck... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004W1WGIC?tag=duckduckgo-d-20&linkCode=osi&th=1&psc=1

    for pads and compounds...

    I run 3M stuff.. pricey, but pretty much the best and worth the coin...2 + 2 superbuff pads for wool... they are double sided, and can be washed for many uses.. you need a superbuff adapter to run them on the buffers...

    https://www.amazon.com/3M-05703-Superbuff-Buffing-Pad/dp/B001445AU6/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=3m+2+++2+buffing+pad&qid=1589070582&s=hi&sr=1-3

    https://www.amazon.com/3M-05713-Woo...i&sr=1-3-dd5817a1-1ba7-46c2-8996-f96e7b0f409c

    https://www.amazon.com/3M-ADAPTOR-S...+superbuff+adaptor&qid=1589072490&s=hi&sr=1-2

    whites are for compound, yellows are for polishes, waxes... but you could get away with just using white for everything... the key is to only use the one side for compound, than the other side for polish... don't flip back and forth.. than you are getting compound in with your polish, etc....

    foam pads tend to be a bit safer and not as aggressive.. mostly used for polishing and waxing..... but viable thruout for a beginner, even mild compounding.... i don't run foam pads, been buffing so long i run wool thruout a whole process.. even wax...


    there are cheaper options for both.. i'm sure HF has some sort of rotary variable setup.. and there are single sided wool setups out there cheaper too....


    compounds and polishes... i run 3M stuff, but again MANY companies out there.... and cheaper... for serious cutting, like after wetsanding gelcoat scratches out with say, 600 and 1000 grit wetsand paper, you'll run something like a lacquer compound.. 3M's is called super duty.. they are orange, and gritty...

    https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http://www.bottompaintstore.com/image/cache/catalog/products/MMM/3m-super-duty-rubbing-compound-05954-1000x1078.jpg&f=1&nofb=1


    for a "not as aggressive" clearcoat style white compound, 3M has their "perfect it" line.... https://www.amazon.com/3M-06085-Per...jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==




    after any compound work, you will need to polish the surface.. this removes the swirls and heavy scratches.. makes it perfect for waxing... i swear by finesse it.. been using it for like 40 yrs now.....

    [​IMG]





    for doing boats... we often use an all-in-one cleaner/wax like mequires #50 or similar if the boat isn't in horrible shape.. polishes it up and leaves a reasonable wac coat.. not a killer carnuba type coating, but waxed....


    [​IMG]



    as for actually running a machine.. there are tons of little secrets and tips to doing it right and not f*cking sh*t up.. like burning thru edges, removing swirls, cleaning the pads, etc, etc.. but i can
    go thru some of that when you pick up some gear and things.....


    hope that helps and doesn't overwhelm, scare ya... the prices look a bit scary i know, but for like $300, you can be set up pretty good for down the road...
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2020
  5. gonefishin

    gonefishin 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    that is exactly the info I was looking for! thank you!!! I'll be ordering some stuff tonight it looks like lol. I'm sure I'll have more questions as I get to the actual work.

    On a side note since you work with boats a lot. I need to fix a small gouge in my boats gel coat. It rubbed on a tee post stuck in a stump and gouged it to where I can see the glass mat in a spot. It's not very big, maybe 3/16'' wide and 5-6'' long. I was going to use this and tint it black to match boat. Is it ok? or is something better? My boat is gloss black and I am a little worried about it matching right.

    https://www.wholesalemarine.com/gelcoat-repair-kit.html

    0522B838-FD4B-42F3-9333-AB93C8DA12C7.jpeg
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2020
  6. ryoken

    ryoken Puppy Fabricator Premium Member GMOTM Winner

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    :haha: sorry i had to.. ;)

    matching, making gel repairs look invisible is black magic.. pun intended.. the chances of that going away and not being seen are slim at best... it's my daily nightmare.. unlike car paint repair, where you can blend/clear panels and such to make things disappear, gelcoat is just THE spot and making it go away is nearly impossible unless the color and repair methods are perfect.. colored gelcoat being much worse than whites too.... factor in the old gel being oxidized to some extent, compared to a fresh gel spot, etc makes it nearly impossible...


    is that just dust/dirt on that? or is the black metal flake too?

    if i was doing that area... i'd remove the decals (you could try and work around em).. wetsand with 600, than 1000 to remove as many of the surrounding scratches as possible.... buff those out.. than i'd mask tape immediately around that heavy damage area.. than i'd go in with a roloc grinding disc and knock down that raw glass a bit, just to smooth it out a bit..

    at that point i would fill it with a thickened resin, sand smooth, wetsand surrounding area with 600, and spray black gel on it.. but in your case, i would retape it, and mixing up that paste with a heavy dose of the black tint and squeegie it in the area.. go back and forth once or twice to make sure it's down in the repair.. than pull the tape off.... let dry... retape right around it.. wetsand it flat with 600/1000 and buff... YOU WILL SEE THIS.. that's a tough repair for me to make "go away" with pro materials and techniques... let alone a repair paste kit and a first-timer..

    that said, it's a good idea to even do a 1/2 arse repair on that to seal back up that raw glass... not the end of the world, but it's not spectacular for it getting wet all the time...

    feel free to hit me up...
     
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  7. gonefishin

    gonefishin 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    Yea I was tied to a tree too close to the t post and another boat came by with a big wake and well you see what happened

    Thank you! And yes that is metal flake in it too...

    I will fix like you said. I was planning on removing stickers and then after this is fixed put slightly larger letters over that spot so it won’t be seen....

    i was sick when it happened and i have kinda worried about it getting wet the last few times on the lake.... I would like to get it fixed “right” but I don’t have the skills or funds to have it done right.... hopefully i can get it fairly close... ever sprinkle glitter to try to match the surroundings? Lol
     
  8. ryoken

    ryoken Puppy Fabricator Premium Member GMOTM Winner

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    meh, probably better off just running black... unless you had a pretty close kind of flake.. and kept it at a very minimum... you'd have to actually mix it in with the paste... one thing to remember here.. KEEP IT TIGHT! that's why you want to run tape right around it for all the various steps.. until compounding...

    and yeah, to do that right? pffft, been a while since i've done a flake job, but I'd be shooting the whole side of that hull... you have NO idea what techniques/conditions where used shooting it at the factory... air pressure, speed, etc... BUT you could be close, AND you can only see one side of the boat at a time... ;)

    to be honest, I'm not sure you'll get out a bunch of that other stuff by sanding/buffing.. they look pretty deep... but you should be able to minimize them... owning a boat, or doing car work, owning a buffer is kind of mandatory for any DIY guys anyway....
     
  9. ryoken

    ryoken Puppy Fabricator Premium Member GMOTM Winner

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    btw, my apologies for missing this.. till tagged i had no idea, i'm not very exploratory in the forums these days.. most of the times i'm just checking on subscribed threads and not reading new content...
     
  10. gonefishin

    gonefishin 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    Oh it’s no problem no biggie.

    most of the other stuff that you see is from the old stickers I never fully removed lol. I think the t post hit twice though. There are some light scratches most of the way down that side... the guy i let borrow it left it tied to the dock a lot and that whole side is kinda scratched up. I may end up getting it redone in a year or two.....

    I was looking at buffers last night. I almost bought the dewalt, but I saw a dewalt 20v cordless... it only goes to like 2200 rpm and i think minimum 600rpm.

    the 120v corded one seems to be infinitely variable to 3500 I think.

    would i be hindered by the cordless? Or would it work just as good? I have other 20v stuff already and just thought cordless might be nicer...
     
  11. ryoken

    ryoken Puppy Fabricator Premium Member GMOTM Winner

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    no clue... never used one... not sure what the bodyshop/painter guys think of em these days.. me? no freakin way... when your buffing things, shit takes time, I'd be HIGHLY concerned about bat life... especially boats.. one, i work on bigger stuff, and 2, it's gel, you don't really have to worry about burning thru like paint, so bearing into it, pressure is often a good friend with gelcoat... bet i can kill batts in like an hr....


    speeds, that's not horrible... you tend to buff at lower speeds 75% of the time anyway.. be nicer to have a bit more on the high end for getting good heat/luster.. 2200 is pretty low... but also for a beginner, probably a good bit safer on paint...
     
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  12. gonefishin

    gonefishin 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    so I basically bought everything you listed lol.

    It should be home when I get there next week. I'll have 3 weeks off to work on it. I'm sure I'll have questions along the way too haha...

    I'll post pictures of the progress. Thank you for all the help
     
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  13. ryoken

    ryoken Puppy Fabricator Premium Member GMOTM Winner

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    i'll keep my eye on this thread.. maybe i'll type up a tips/tricks kind of thing for running a wheel for when ya start...

    just an aside to your gel repair in case you get started... keep in mind that MEKP hardener that is used, is highly affected by temp and agitation, there is a fine line some times between too much hardener, a "hot batch". and not enough, never hardening... as with anything related to polyester resin, gel/MEKP, having everything "ready to go" before mixing your product is highly advisable.. speed is of the essence once kicked...
     
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  14. gonefishin

    gonefishin 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    Ok I'm ready to get started. I got home last night, and today I washed the boat really good. I plan to get started tomorrow.

    I plan to start with the gouge. I'll follow your advice above on that.

    So now for tips on proper buffer technique. Lets pretend I don't know have a clue what I'm doing (probably not far off lol). My understanding is don't let it stay in the same spot long or it can overheat, and be careful on corners and edges to not go through them. But I have never used one of these....

    First I'll wet sand the scratches with 600 then 1000. Should I go 1500 too or just strait to compound?

    So start with the white pad, add compound, and anything else I need to know?

    Should I start with the super duty and then go to the finess it? White pad for both, or is the finess it more of a polish and use the yellow pad?

    I didn't get that cleaner/wax combo. I normally use mothers car wax. Not sure if it's the best, but I don't have any complaints on it. But if that other stuff is better I'll get it. Also if I'm not using it what polish should I use?

    I found the bottle of plum crazy I used to use by hand. I'm not sure if it will help any for this?
    Thanks again

    C118E334-7AED-45B0-BFEC-65EB0F319E1A.jpeg
     
  15. ryoken

    ryoken Puppy Fabricator Premium Member GMOTM Winner

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    i'll try to make a post in the morn, or dinner, headed to bed... ;)
     
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  16. ryoken

    ryoken Puppy Fabricator Premium Member GMOTM Winner

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    ok, i'm gonna bounce around here a bit, as this is gonna get long...



    whatever wax ya have is fine...

    the only time to use that hand glaze would be after finesse, before wax.. but finesse to wax should be fine... it really is formulated for hand app.. won't hurt tho..

    you have a bit of a jump from super duty to finesse.. so you'll probably need to finesse really thorough to have all the swirls removed really well...


    so do 80, 90% of your scratch removal with 600, than finish off with 1000.. you just to want to have to sand enough with 1000, to develop a finer cut over the 600.. super duty will be fine with thorough 1000.. it'll come right up.... i do have 1200 and 1500 but that's for other jobs...





    ah, buffing techniques.. i've never actually done this.... :haha:


    you can either squirt compound on the pad, or directly on the panel.... set the machine to the lowest speed.... put the white pad on the panel and smear the super duty around.. start buffing at the slowest speed, to move around the compound, and get the area your trying to do "fully covered"... you'll do this at say a 10, 15% degree angle... the more you ride toward the edge of the buffer, the more it "cuts" and also leaves more pronounced swirls... do a comfortable area, maybe 3', 4' of hull say, before moving on.....

    once you make a few passes back and forth over an area, you can take the wheel off the panel and "spur" the pad.. you can buy a tool, or a flatblade does it just as well.. just drag it over the pad with it spinning.. the faster the rpm's, the more it removes product buildup...


    than go back to the panel that should have a film of compound all over it.. you can now bump up the speed to a medium.. say a machine goes 1 to 6... slow are 1, 2.. med 3, 4.. fast 5, 6... maybe a 3.. this time you will flatten the pad dramatically. almost flatpadding it on the panel.. down to 5 degrees or so... the speed will creat heat and shine... also when you flatpad it REMOVES the product off the panel..... you can work back and forth, flatpadding, spurring ocasionally, to the point you've removed all the compound/product.... you can leave a bit here and there, for fineese to clean up, or if you are going to recompound the area....

    you will basically repeat this exact procedure with finesse it.. finesse will eventually leave a perfect surface.. no swirls, etc.. you can use a nice rag/towel to wipe off any minor finesse off at the end.. than wax however you want.. it can be buffed, or hand... high speed wax buffing can be VERY beneficial for showcars and such.. a nice pure carnuba applied with some heat leaves an awesome surface... if you go thru the trouble to SD, than polish it perfect with finesse, it's really nice to get a good wax coat on at that point.. even a good thick paste wax will work good at that point...


    but to segway that into another question.. your initial sentence.. the burning edges, heat, etc... that vastly applies more to paint than gel. as i alluded to.... gel is VERY hard, being a polyester base... i DARE you to try and burn gel with a buffer... :haha: it can happen, but it is VERY rare... even direct bodyline edges will take a direct angle buff of super duty and not bat an eye.. do that to the top edge of a fender, and it will now be pin striped there... :doah: generally you are always moving over a panel at some speed, slow to medium.... only time you are slowing your travel speed is when you are trying to create shine (heat) and lessen/remove swirls...

    oh, white vs yellow... super duty should always be on the white pad.. it's the "rougher" compounding pad.. that said, i have been known to super duty one side, than flip it over and finesse with the other side......

    oh, i hope you got the superbuff adapter... thats the big advantage of the 2 + 2 stuff.. 2 sides... but since you only have SD and finesse it, might as well use the yellow for the finesse.. it IS the polishing pad afterall.. just like sandpaper has grits, so do the pads. you can feel it, the yellow is much silkier than the white.... you could polish with the one side, and even wax with the other..

    once they get a little loaded, dirty, hammered, you can wash them.. just watch out for heat.. cold or warm water.. do NOT put in the drier! air dry only....


    oh, and you always want the right side of the pad on the surface.. rotation going from top to bottom... easier to control generally than the left side trying to drag the machine up the panel.....

    there are stooopid amounts to this..... especially cars.... you can mask edges for safety, different wheel techniques, etc but that should get you started.. :haha:
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2020
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  17. gonefishin

    gonefishin 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    You are the man! I appreciate it. That’s the kind if info i was hoping for!!

    yes I bought the adapter, but Amazon didn’t put it in the box with the rest of my stuff... so they shipped it and will be here in a couple days.

    I worked on the gouge today. It is looking really good so far. Just a little bit of sanding left. I ended up having to fill it in 2 coats. It wasn’t that hard basically like using body filler. The color matches close enough for me.

    on another note i did some work on the outboard today. Omg I couldn’t work on those for a living. Taking all the covers off sucks. Took me 2 hours to do 2 fuel filters
     
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  18. gonefishin

    gonefishin 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    So I haven’t got to the finesse it yet. I got the gouge fixed plenty good enough for me. We are going to the lake tomorrow so I’ll do the rest next week. I’m actually surprised how many scratches came out.

    Here is a few pictures. The one with the orange rag i buffed the right and not the left. You can tell a huge difference. I didn’t realize how bad the paint was actually looking.

    F5D9BD67-3E81-4AF1-B4CD-829B85E184AF.jpeg

    EA9CFEB4-1A37-4A5E-9C2B-0E7E2783A00A.jpg
     
  19. centexk5

    centexk5 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    It’s amazing what a good buff job will do.
     

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