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Bumper Air Tanks Yea or Nay?

Should I make the bumper an air tank?

  • Yea

    Votes: 95 68.3%

  • Nay

    Votes: 44 31.7%
  • Total voters
    139
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Nope,but some of these other guys just don't seem to get it.Compressed air(at the moderate levels of compression that we are talking about,let's say up to 1000 psi)will leak RAPIDLY AT THE SITE OF THE FAILURE.The entire vessel WILL NOT CATASTROPHICALLY EXPLODE.If your body is pressed up against the part of the vessel that fails the high pressure could injure you(at several hundred psi).Otherwise you will feel the same thing as directing a garage-type blowgun at your skin.The material used will not skyrocket past the limits of it's elasticity and hurl shrapnel at bystanders.As that limit is reached it will fail,and at that point it will leak RAPIDLY.Get it,guys?
 
OrangeKrush, I was just trying to be humorous, I didn't think you believed that.

As for the rest, I do think people really need to research and know what they are doing before doing fabrication work on any part of a vehicle.

Based on my knowledge and education, I don't believe a bumper air tank to be as dangerous as some make it out to be if built properly.

With the correct pressure relief valves, even if it was crushed, the relief valves would keep the pressure from building to dangerously high levels, or the air hoses would burst prior to reaching some theoretical catastrophic level.

Like Destinbeachman and others have said, the tank will rupture at a weak point in the metal and the pressure will be released at that point, not creating a violent explosion that sends metal chunks flying every which way.

Also, this is my opinion, so disagree if you think I am wrong, but I think even in an accident, the bumper will be crushed some, but I find it hard to believe it will be flattened out so there is only some small fraction of it's original volume left for the air in the tank. I think it would tear a hole in the bumper prior to completely flattening. So I don't think the pressures will get very high, even if it is in an accident.

I think the bumper will bend, twist and possibly crush some (like at the frame rails), but this will not create some extreme pressure inside the tank.
 
OrangeCrushK10, I appreciate your input. I originally posted the question looking for opinions and you've given me yours. You are obviously a nay on the bumper air tank idea. I'm sure you understand that the direction you lean doesn't actually make something illegal. If in fact there is legislation that restricts or does not allow bumper air tanks to be used on public roads I'd be very interesting in seeing it. In the mean time I've built the bumper so it can be used in the future as a tank. For now I don't need it, but I like to plan ahead.

Thanks for everyone's input, and thanks to those who spent time researching the legality of the issue. Unless someone finds new legal information let's all let this thread die.
 
OrangeCrushK10 said:
What I was trying to say is that smacking an airtank with a claw hammer isn't anything similar to hitting an air tank with a car. Even a very thick air tank. I used the bullet analogy because people here know pretty well the amount of damage a bullet will do. This was a way to rationalize about how much energy we're talking about.
Click to expand...

Bust out a dictionary and look up the word rationalize.

Anyway, I still don't think you grasp it. Go hit a nearly-empty aerosol can with a sledgehammer and tell us what you find. You'll find a ruptured (no shrapnel) can under the sledgehammer. This is a far thinner material, with a lot of work hardening done to it, that has had its pressure inside increase greatly.

Reality says that whatever you have hooked to your air tank is probably weaker than the air tank itself. Most hoses are only good for 250psi. Many people put blowoff valves in anyway that'll go at 150psi.

There are far more important things to worry about rather than air tank bumpers. A battery improperly affixed to the vehicle is infinitely more dangerous than a bumper with 150lbs of air in it.

I find it rather baffling that people think that bumper air tanks are going to kill people. There are three things that say otherwise... physics & material science, common sense (practical knowledge), and by example.

OrangeCrushK10 said:
And so far I'd lean towards it being illegal. I've seen nothing saying it IS legal and a few thing pointing the the direction of NOT legal. But perhaps I misread them.
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Did you remove your "Under Penalty of Law" label from your mattress?
 
Two things:

1: In AZ, there is no law forbidding air tanks in bumpers, but there is a gotcha - "Unsafe Motor Vehicle"

http://www.azleg.state.az.us/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/ars/28/00981.htm&Title=28&DocType=ARS


A person shall not drive or move on a highway a motor vehicle, tow truck, trailer, semitrailer or pole trailer or any combination of a motor vehicle, tow truck, trailer, semitrailer or pole trailer unless:
1. The equipment on the vehicle is in good working order and adjustment as required in this chapter.

2. The vehicle is in a safe mechanical condition that does not endanger the driver or other occupant or a person on the highway.

That means that the popo can make the judgement. A cop that would right that ticket would probably make a compellng argument to the judge. 51% takes the win at court.:doah:


2: I have $5.00 towards the claw hammer video demo.
 
Dallin said:
I've built the bumper so it can be used in the future as a tank. For now I don't need it, but I like to plan ahead.

Thanks for everyone's input, and thanks to those who spent time researching the legality of the issue. Unless someone finds new legal information let's all let this thread die.
Click to expand...

So can we see some pics?:wink1:
 
CyberSniper said:
Bust out a dictionary and look up the word rationalize.

Anyway, I still don't think you grasp it. Go hit a nearly-empty aerosol can with a sledgehammer and tell us what you find. You'll find a ruptured (no shrapnel) can under the sledgehammer. This is a far thinner material, with a lot of work hardening done to it, that has had its pressure inside increase greatly.

Reality says that whatever you have hooked to your air tank is probably weaker than the air tank itself. Most hoses are only good for 250psi. Many people put blowoff valves in anyway that'll go at 150psi.

There are far more important things to worry about rather than air tank bumpers. A battery improperly affixed to the vehicle is infinitely more dangerous than a bumper with 150lbs of air in it.

I find it rather baffling that people think that bumper air tanks are going to kill people. There are three things that say otherwise... physics & material science, common sense (practical knowledge), and by example.



Did you remove your "Under Penalty of Law" label from your mattress?
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:haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha:
 
destinbeachman said:
Nope,but some of these other guys just don't seem to get it.Compressed air(at the moderate levels of compression that we are talking about,let's say up to 1000 psi)will leak RAPIDLY AT THE SITE OF THE FAILURE.The entire vessel WILL NOT CATASTROPHICALLY EXPLODE.If your body is pressed up against the part of the vessel that fails the high pressure could injure you(at several hundred psi).Otherwise you will feel the same thing as directing a garage-type blowgun at your skin.The material used will not skyrocket past the limits of it's elasticity and hurl shrapnel at bystanders.As that limit is reached it will fail,and at that point it will leak RAPIDLY.Get it,guys?
Click to expand...

Can you ABSOLUTELY guarentee that will always be the out-come, regardless of all other factors?

If your answer is yes then you've never seen PVC pipe explode from "ordinary air pressure." Yes, PVC is a different material, doesn't matter as I'm only using it for the visual. That is what brittle failures look like. If you don't think steel can do that you need to go back to school.

BTW, you should never, EVER point a blowgun directly on your skin. Ever heard of an Embolism ?It will kill you dead.
 
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I promise never to make air tank bumpers out of PVC.And I'll head down to the hospital right now,seeing as I used my blowgun to blow the dust out of my hair and clothes just this morning,kinda like everyone in the REAL WORLD does. Happy now? What was I just saying about being embarrassed?
 
"Yes, PVC is a different material, doesn't matter as I'm only using it for the visual."
What part of this statement did you miss?

Using a blow gun from a distance is nowhere near the same thing as having it against your skin.
 
We're not talking about PVC here so why give us an example of a completely different material from our subject,which is air tank bumpers constucted from mild steel? And what I SAID,which you obviously failed to either READ and/or UNDERSTAND,was DIRECTING a blowgun at your skin,NOT holding it against your skin. How smart do you feel now?
 
ntsqd said:
Can you ABSOLUTELY guarentee that will always be the out-come, regardless of all other factors?

If your answer is yes then you've never seen PVC pipe explode from "ordinary air pressure." Yes, PVC is a different material, doesn't matter as I'm only using it for the visual. That is what brittle failures look like. If you don't think steel can do that you need to go back to school.

BTW, you should never, EVER point a blowgun directly on your skin. Ever heard of an Embolism ?It will kill you dead.
Click to expand...

Oh me oh me oh my. PVC is an ENTIRELY different critter. How much elastic deformation do you get out of PVC? PVC is as brittle as most ceramics, remember that from materials class?

It matters a METRIC **** TON what kind of material it is. Tempered martensite is an entirely different critter than 1040.

I'll point a blowgun at my skin all the livelong day... and maybe I'll get a bit of windburn... but as long as I don't have it contacting my skin I won't die. If it were true that you'd die of having it pointed at your skin there would be no motorcycle enthusiasts left in the world and Hadens wouldn't be so cool.
 
ntsqd said:
BTW, you should never, EVER point a blowgun directly on your skin. Ever heard of an Embolism ?It will kill you dead.
Click to expand...

:D This is the best thread I've ever Ever EVER seen! I'm as giddy as a three year old girl at her first sleep over!
 
Yea I get a email saying some one has replied to this so I thought that I would read from my reply and it always amazes me how these dicussions go on, and on, and on.
 
The only thing I can see that would have any adverse effect would be rust from the condensation. But I don't think it would make too much difference in the life of the bumper. My garage comressor is 20 yrs old & it doesnt look much different now than it did then. You might want to install a drain plug at the lowest point or somewhere you can make the lowest point depending on how you park it. Hopefully not on the top of it.
 
I read this thread all the way through and there seemed to be a lot of whining going on by the anti air tank faction. :eek1: I hope the poor guy got a decent answer to his question.
 
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