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Buying a Suburban - 6.5l vs Vortec

Mikey von

1/2 ton status
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OK, getting ready to pull the trigger and I keep going back and forth between a 6.5l vs the vortec. This will be the kid hauler and with our 3rd boy coming in May, it is quite necessary. Reliability and hwy mpg are important as this will be our main vehicle. I only have around $4500 in cash. I also have a '97 Camry that I will sell or trade. I hope to get $2000 for that. Dealer will probably give me $1000-1200. I am not trying to spend all of my money, the less the better.

I am currently looking at 2 rigs. I have not looked at them personally, as they are both a good distance away.

1 - 1997 GMC 1500 Suburban. 106K 5.7l Vortec, cloth interior, power everything (not sure on seats), new tires, great shape inside and out. At a dealer and they are asking $6500. They have not returned emails, I will call tomorrow. I do not know much about it.

2 - 1996 Chevy 2500 Suburban. 204K 6.5l. Leather, power everything. Seller claims, rebuilt transmission, new tires, new paint (dented door was replaced), new injectors, new starter, new flex plate. Says it runs perfect with no faults. He claims it starts up quickly with no smoke when cold. Leaks and burns no fluids. The few pics I have seen show it is clean. He is asking $6000 and will accept my toyota in trade. When we first started talking last week (he had a buyer that was trying to come up with cash), i offered my camry and $3500. He really did not respond to my offer. He called today asking if I was still interested. He seems motivated.

I have looked at a few suburbans and the above situation seems typical. It seems like there is a premium on the 6.5's and to get down in my price range, they are going to be higher miles or have issues. I can find the vortecs with lower miles in my price range. Is the 6.5l worth the extra $$$ and miles?

So what does everyone think?
 
Wow they bringing that much money over there? That seems quite high to me however each state has their own. Guess it's the emissions. I like the idea of the gas motor due to mileage though. Just my 2c
 
Here's my feelings on them, and I won't deny being bias. Also consider that I'm from Alaska and these rigs regularly see below zero temperatures and even down to -20s:

I have a '96 k1500 and a '96 k2500, my family brought them home from the dealership the same night brand new. The 1/2 ton has the l31 (350 vortec) and has been my DD, it's got about 182k on it at the moment. The 3/4 ton has the second release of the 6.5l for that year, after GM fixed the cracking heads problems. It was my dad's DD up until 2007, and is now my DD when I am in AK for the summer and December. It has about 145k on it right now. It also carried around an 800lb plow on it since the day it came home from about October-April.

My 350 has gotten about 15mpg its whole life as an average between city/highway and my driving style. It's more around 13 now (last 3 years) that I live at 4500' though and drive in the mountains regularly. I replaced an EGR valve last night due to an intermittent code that started a few months ago. That's the ONLY work that has been done to that engine it's entire life. Obviously the oil has been changed, spark plugs, etc.. It runs smooth, quiet, has no ticks, has never burned any oil, and the oil filters are clean every time I cut them open.

The Detroit in the 3/4 ton has been abused a bit more. It's been worked hard as a plow truck and towed a 7000lb trailer through the mountains frequently. The cold that it deals with in Anchorage is obviously harder on it that it was on the 350 because it's an old diesel. Both trucks are plugged in every night it gets below 20, but diesels just don't like cold as much, and its obviously going to be more stress on the motor to cold start like that. The plow truck has gotten about 14mpg it's entire life whether it was driving downhill with a tailwind, or pulling that heavy trailer with the plow on the front. It also has always had trouble getting up to 65mph on the highway (it gets there, just not in a hurry), it's got NO horsepower, but about the same amount of torque as the l31. Although the motor still runs good, it has become harder and harder to start in the cold every year. My dad finally replaced it because he was having trouble getting to work on cold mornings. It started to become a common occurrence to have to run a catalytic heater under the block in conjunction with the electric block heater to get it started on the really cold mornings. At this point it is also on its third starter, and last summer the ridiculous vacuum pump died so I replaced the turbo controller with a mechanical one (works great now BTW, and only cost about $100, no biggie to do that). It also is starting to need the rear main done.

A very close friend that used to be my dad's business partner also brought home an l31 in a 3/4 ton with a NV4500 that same night at the dealership. He doesn't take care of his stuff anywhere close to as well as my dad and I. He changes the oil every few months with cheap stuff, but my dad and I run Royal Purple and Ammzoil and change it at 2500 mile intervals. We run Seafoam through the fuel several times a year, etc. Our friend's truck has about 150k on it right now, needs a quart every few months, but still starts every try and runs smooth. It tows a trailer a bit heavier than ours, and in my opinion has an easier time doing it on the highway. Hard to say, though, his trailer is WAY more aerodynamic than ours, and I'm sure the NV4500 vs the 4l80e makes a difference too. One thing I will say, is that our diesel might drop to 12mpg when it's towing, whereas our friend's l31 drops to around 8mpg. On the other hand, with the stick, it gets about 17mpg on average vs the 15mpg my 4l60e gets even though the 3/4 ton is obviously heavier than my 1/2 ton. This truck is now the crew truck for the roofers, so I drive it back and forth to the jobs pretty much every day I'm in Alaska working. I put a starter solenoid in it last summer and I think it melted an intake manifold around 20k, but to my knowledge it hasn't had any other significant work done with it.

I'm not going to say that the l31 is a better motor than the 6.5l. I think our diesel has been an excellent and very low maintenance truck considering what it's been through and it's age. For a DD however, given the option, I would prefer the l31. I'm perfectly happy with the 6.5l that is my DD when I am home, but if I had purchased the truck, I would have taken the l31 for less money and less hassle. I am however, strongly considering a 6.5l for my wheeler when the 350 in it dies, if that gives you an idea of my feelings on it. It's a great motor, it just needs more care put into it to be as reliable in the cold as the l31. If I had the time to go through a 6.5l and build it simple and the way I'd like it, I am confident I could make it just as, if not more reliable than my l31. I just don't have time to fiddle with my DDs, and every l31 I've dealt with over the years has been nothing short of awesome for reliability. They both run like tops compared to a lot of what's on the market, it's just really, really hard to beat an l31 that was taken care of and left in stock form.

That's my spiel about the motors, I'm not really trying to steer you to one truck or the other. The seller's care put into the truck over the years obviously means more than just about anything, and I'd probably be more inclined to take a 3/4 ton over a 1/2 ton. Is the 2500 a HD GVW (does it have a full-float rear, probably 4.10s then)? The 4.10s in my diesel probably don't help the mileage, but I think it needs them when it's towing the trailer. I also don't care for the gearing in the 4l80 with the diesel, I think they are poorly matched. On the other hand, the 4l80 is a damn tough auto, and the plowing ours has gone through is pretty rough on it. The 4l60 is good in stock form, and can be easily made a lot stronger, but it's still like comparing a th350 to a th400.

Assuming that's a fair price for your market, they both sound like good buys. I doubt either rig would need major maintenance soon unless they weren't cared for well. One thing I like about buying from the owner instead of a dealer is you have a chance to meet the guy and draw some conclusions on how well he maintained the thing. That said, I might take the diesel in your position. If it's got the full-float rear, you'll probably never have to touch it short of changing the oil. While the 10 bolt in the back of my 1/2 ton has never even had bearings and seals at 182k, I'm sure it would require more maintenance in a suburban than a full-floater. I think with the weight of the suburban, and I'm assuming it's an auto, I think the diesel would probably get better mileage. Probably not a big difference between the two though...is diesel way more expensive per gallon in your area like it has been in AK for a few years? That could also be a deal-breaker for me I suppose. I was paying $5.15 a gallon in Anchorage a couple years back.
 
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Wow they bringing that much money over there? That seems quite high to me however each state has their own. Guess it's the emissions. I like the idea of the gas motor due to mileage though. Just my 2c

I'd go with the gasser too, unless your going to be haulin more than groceries and diapers.Regular examples around here easily reach 250k, so 100k should have lots of life left. Both prices seem high too. They sound like $3500 around here. We are talking a fifteen year old truck after all.

Congrats on the new addition by the way(the kid and the truck)

Good Luck
 
If it were me (and I'm relatively uneducated on the topic), I would definitely rock the 6.5 diesel. You already know the ins-and-outs of them real well with that gnarly 6.2 build you inherited and the increased fuel economy will be well worth it. I think you'll likely get another 100K miles out of either truck - so I favor the 6.5... Plus, newer diesel burbs are just cool. :)
 
Thanks for the replies. :D:laugh:

As far as prices go, at least on the 6.5l, I have been checking across the entire US. I have been looking for over a month. 6.5l suburbans in good shape go for 5k+. Lower the miles and they go up to 9K. I have seen them sell on ebay for over 8K, so it is not just asking price. If you can find one in good shape without issues for less than 4k, please let me know.

There is more value in gas, and they can be had with low miles for under 5K. I have looked at 6 burbs now. 4 were asking less than 4K and all 4 of those had issues (mostly transmission or poor interior/exterior).

Owenst7 - thank you for sharing. I have had similar thoughts about the 5.7l. I know it is a good engine and very reliable. I also know the 6.x series quite well now and just think they are cool. I like the idea of better mpg's. What i do not want is a head gasket going two months after I buy it (the wife would be pissed).

I am still not sure what to do.
 
Between the 2 I would prolly go for the 6.5. 200k miles is not bad for a 6.5 they will go over 300k easy.
The trade for the yota seems good. Plus you will have some cash left over. To deal with any issues that may come up in a used vehicle.
The car lot with the 97 will prolly take all the cash you have.
I would sure give the 6.5 a good look. As said, its always good to be able to talk to the owner. from your description the 6.5 seems to have had good care. All the new parts like the new injectors is a good sign. Yur good for at least another 100K there.
If you have done your DD i am sure you are aware if the IP/PMD issues with the electronic IP. Relocating the PMD is usually the easy fix.
Gee... Am i trying to talk you into the 6.5:D

The 97 sounds nice too but will most likely cost you more. I would hit the dealer hard to drop the price.
A quick search on autotrader.com turned this 99 sub for 5999 in Roseville Should come up 2nd down on the list.
http://www.hayesautos.com/used-cars.php?body=Sport%20Utility
good luck in your search/decision.

Aren't the 96 3/4 ton diesels smog exempt in Ca?
Another shamless plug for the 6.5:D
 
I also know the 6.x series quite well now and just think they are cool. I like the idea of better mpg's. What i do not want is a head gasket going two months after I buy it (the wife would be pissed).

I am still not sure what to do.

You could buy it, change the head gasket set out and replace the headbolts with studs... never have to worry about it again. :D Then again, you probably don't need another project. :haha:
 
Just a few ideas of what's near here in what price ranges. I used to be a car dealer and can tell you they will stick it to you.

http://tucson.craigslist.org/cto/1680713235.html
http://tucson.craigslist.org/cto/1678467591.html
http://tucson.craigslist.org/ctd/1673395149.html
These are just in tucson area. I would check around a little because unless you're getting a nice warranty with it their is no reason to buy from a dealer. Take the car to a mechanic or what nots (or your house) and check it out.

Even a newer one.
http://tucson.craigslist.org/cto/1669052296.html

They're out there just gotta look outside the car lots.
 
You could buy it, change the head gasket set out and replace the headbolts with studs... never have to worry about it again. :D Then again, you probably don't need another project. :haha:

I agree. If it were just head gaskets I would not be terribly upset. It would help if my project was running, it would be easier.

Just a few ideas of what's near here in what price ranges. I used to be a car dealer and can tell you they will stick it to you.

http://tucson.craigslist.org/cto/1680713235.html
http://tucson.craigslist.org/cto/1678467591.html
http://tucson.craigslist.org/ctd/1673395149.html
These are just in tucson area. I would check around a little because unless you're getting a nice warranty with it their is no reason to buy from a dealer. Take the car to a mechanic or what nots (or your house) and check it out.

Even a newer one.
http://tucson.craigslist.org/cto/1669052296.html

They're out there just gotta look outside the car lots.

Yeah there are a lot of gassers out there.
 
Came to an price agreement with the '96 6.5l suburban, $4000 plus my Camry contingent on us both passing each others inspections. I going to take my boys camping on the Smith River and he will meet us there to do the swap.
 
Ok now that's not to bad of a deal. Getting that kind of trade for your vehicle is pretty good! Sounds like you're getting a great deal. GJ in staying with it.
 
Gald you finally found a deal on a 6.5. Hope everything checks out good.:thumb:
I have a 98 GMC K1500 PU with a 6.5 and love it. IMO a great engine for a 1/2 ton. Fuel milage like a 4.8. Torque like a 454.
Have fun camping! Smith river is beautiful. You might just catch the tail end of the spring steelhead run. All the rain lately should keep the river flows up.
 
Nice! Where on the Smith are you going?? I really want to camp at Antelope camp after wheeling the McGrew trail, but that's almost to the coast in Oregon.... So not near you! :)
 
Nice! Where on the Smith are you going?? I really want to camp at Antelope camp after wheeling the McGrew trail, but that's almost to the coast in Oregon.... So not near you! :)

Was planning on staying at Jed Smith state park, but it looks like camping at state parks has jumped to $35/night. F that.

We are now planning on staying at panther flat, which is about 15 miles up the 199. http://www.recreation.gov/camping/P...?contractCode=NRSO&parkId=70649&topTabIndex=C
 
Nice! That should be fantastic! I'd really like to camp out that way, but it takes SO long to get there from here that I've been reluctant to do it when there's so much good stuff nearby. However, I've exhausted many of the local places, so I'm thinking this summer is going to be spent on the Smith. :)
 
I will take some pics. Unfortunately, it is a long drive and we can only stay one night. I am uncomfortable leaving my wife alone long in her state (although she says she will enjoy the peace and quiet).
 
Do I recall correctly that you told me she's pregnant? You're not kidding about a long drive for a one-nighter! Are you going to go all the way up through Grants Pass, or are you going to take hwy 96? If you're going through GP, let me know if you need a pot of coffee put on to keep you awake for the 5 hour trip! I'd be glad to meet you, even if briefly, as you pass through Ashland. :)
 
You could buy it, change the head gasket set out and replace the headbolts with studs... never have to worry about it again. :D Then again, you probably don't need another project. :haha:

Do I recall correctly that you told me she's pregnant? You're not kidding about a long drive for a one-nighter! Are you going to go all the way up through Grants Pass, or are you going to take hwy 96? If you're going through GP, let me know if you need a pot of coffee put on to keep you awake for the 5 hour trip! I'd be glad to meet you, even if briefly, as you pass through Ashland. :)

Yes, Brianne is 34 weeks pregnant. She is not coming along on this trip. We will take 299 West to Arcata, then 101 north to Cresent City.

Thanks for the offer of coffee. It would be cool to meet up.

You could always come help me replace head bolts with studs some weekend.;):wink1::waytogo:
 
Well, we had a great time camping. :D:D It was a long car ride for the boys, but all in all they did well. We went to this little aquarium in crescent city and they got to pet a shark! Liam (my 2 year old) has not been feeling well and got sick on the way home. That was unfun. :(:(

The truck did not come home with us. The seller was supposed to meet me at my campsite friday evening but he was a no-show. When I got into cell phone range sat morning, I had two messages from him. The rebuilt transmission had some issues with overdrive. It is getting fixed under warranty and he offered to drive it to my place. I went and checked the suburban out and it was not as advertised. The windshield was cracked, antenna broken off at the base, replaced door not aligned properly, inside was a complete mess with badly torn front seats and a broken radio. Also the tranny work was/is done by a local to him shop, so the warranty had no value to me. I told him the best I could do was $3000 cash, no car, he drives it to my place and I get to cold start it and drive it before anything. He declined. At least I got to spend time with my boys. :D
 

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