Cage design/measurement tips

[MTBLAZER89]

Ok I am finally to the point where I am ready to start measuring for my cage. I am going to start with the in cab portion first and move on to the rear section later. The rear seems like it will be pretty straight forward.

I got the measurements for my B pillar bar done and it doesn't seem like it will be too bad. Im trying to keep it close to the body as much as possible. I used a tape measure a long straight edge and a level.

A pillars. I want to run them through the dash, but have no idea where to begin measurements for this.

Looking for any tips/tricks secrets to designing and measuring for a cage.

 

[blowedupmotor87]

The only part of my original design that I like was my A-pillars! I put them though the dash. I cut a bit of tube (1.5") that was long enough to go from the floor to about where the bend would start (the windshield bottom height) and stuck it though at the most logical spots just to see how and where it would fit. If you are careful with placement, the gauges will still fit and all and only a little dash trimming will be needed. It took a lot of test fitting to get it how I wanted, good foot room was left too, just no dead pedal area and no stock e-brake (at least in my design, gotta make a lever style one). I then took a good thick tape measure and stuck it in to place tracing out what would be the forward most line of my tube, took a little protractor and figured the angle (so that I had length and angle), cut he tube a little long, bent it, and just started test fitting and trimming. There's probably a slicker way of doing it but, all in all, it went fairly quickly and easily.

I can take some pics if ya want. It's the only part of my sad attempt at cage building that I think I actually did right! I did a front "halo" type cage since it seemed the easiest and most headroom friendly design to me (6'3" so, I need to conserve headroom). I never trimmed the dash pad to fit but, the underdash metal required little trimming and the gauge cluster bolts in perfectly!!! The A pillars and front "halo" are the only parts I plan to duplicate when I do a revised cage build. Just make sure you study the design of cages on here well and pay more attention to cage structure than offending bits of bodywork (that way you can avoid making a $600 mistake like I did!!!!)

 

[tRustyK5]

Might try dropping some plumb lines down from the top corners (visor area) so you get a good idea of how far outward it needs to go, and how far forward...providing of course the truck is sitting level and flat.

Also, it'll be a lot easier to measure and plan if the dash and seats are out of your way already.

You can also make a large angle finder from a couple of pieces of wood (1x2) and a bolt.

Rene

 

[ryoken]

I'll just toss a couple of my observations out...

i'm sure bend-tech and such are the best way, but i just applied what methods i've used on other things..... i do a ton of my work by eye... all i'll suggest is leave your tubes long at both ends.. work from the middle out... make your notches/end cuts the last thing you do... can always cut more, replacing ain't as easy.... same with bends.. i'll figure out what angle i think i need, bring it up near that, check it, and reload it for more if it needs..

obviously, the software is a t*t's way to build, but i honestly don't think you could get as tight a fit to the body as i got on my a-pillar tube with software... both mine actually have 3 bends, not the 2 you would guess with a casual glance....

Greg got his nice and tight with software, but i just couldn't imagine doing mine without the visceral manual measuring, fitting, etc...

here's a couple shots of my passenger side A tube.... below the dashpad there are actually 2 bends.. the first kicks it in, the second down... might be hard to discern in the pics... but it was needed for the foot to come out where i wanted it...

 

[ryoken]

btw, for the record.... it probably took me about 10, 12 hr's to do both my A-pillar tubes... that's with no end cuts/notches... they where THE first pieces of the cage...

 

[4X4HIGH]

Looks to me like I see your weakest link in that lower section of A pillar tube. Why is that hole in the tube?

 

[ryoken]

it's the wire chase up to the overhead console....

 

[4X4HIGH]

it's the wire chase up to the overhead console....

It would have been better to maybe attach a small diameter tube and run wires up that way rather than making your cage weak at one of the critical points of the cage. It wouldn't have been nearly as bad if that hole was in a stright section of tube but you have it within the bend radius and that just weaken the hell out of that tube.

Just trying to look out for your safety brother.

At the least you should at least weld in a gusset on the back side of where that hole is.

 

[ryoken]

I'm not in the slightest bit concerned about it.. you take things like that into consideration when designing it... it exits where it exits for a reason... i'm certainly not gonna put an external tube on it for that minor loss of strength... it's not a CORR race truck...

 

[MTBLAZER89]

I am using bend-tech EZ so the angles and length aren't too tough. I guess I'll take the dash apart and see what I am working with. I have the B pillar design, but I am going to do the A-pillars first and work off of them.

Ryoken I spent some more time looking at your cage today. I like how tight yours are with the windshield and A pillar. How far back is your B pillar hoop from the back of the cab? I'm going to run mine even with the back of the cab like just behind where the seat belt reels are.

 

[blazinzuk]

Bend tech works great. One piece of advise. Don't compromise. My cage ended up really close to what I wanted. I could have done a couple things different but I didnt

How are you attaching it?

 

[ryoken]

I wanted my B-hoop exposed, viewable from outside... so it's about 2 or 3" behind the hardtop mount lip...

one very important thing I would say is, definitely break out your seats for mockup when going to locate your B-hoop.. with my seats, where I wanted them, that's where the B-hoop NEEDED to be.. X-bars need to be considered too... I couldn't have it any further forward if I wanted to without moving the seats forward..... but my seats are the extra wide and 4" extra tall, so it may not apply as much to others...

or to those of a diminutive nature.......

 

[MTBLAZER89]

Bend tech works great. One piece of advise. Don't compromise. My cage ended up really close to what I wanted. I could have done a couple things different but I didnt

How are you attaching it?

Plates on the floor then hard mounted to the frame. My rig sees zero street time.

I wanted my B-hoop exposed, viewable from outside... so it's about 2 or 3" behind the hardtop mount lip...




one very important thing I would say is, definitely break out your seats for mockup when going to locate your B-hoop.. with my seats, where I wanted them, that's where the B-hoop NEEDED to be.. X-bars need to be considered too... I couldn't have it any further forward if I wanted to without moving the seats forward..... but my seats are the extra wide and 4" extra tall, so it may not apply as much to others...

or to those of a diminutive nature.......

Ya know right after i typed that last night I looked at your pic and how the seat set up requires it to be back some.

 

[ryoken]

and trust me, that's tight with the crossbar.. maybe an inch or so.... I'm 6" 1"..

 

[blazinzuk]

another thing is your tallest friend that ever rides with you would be very thankful if you build the cage to fit him too

I have done several cages for friends but it seems like all my friends are about 5'5", I am 6' 2" so I build their cages to fit me. Another thing to think about if you ever compete in anything even small little local things you are probably going to have to wear a helmet, its good to see if you have clearance for a helmet.

If everything is going to be bolted together body frame etc, then you can weld plates to certain parts of the body and attach to the cage. I have done this several times and it works very well, cut down quite a bit on some noise on one truck where we built his cage way tight and it was rubbing the body just a bit. We attached to the frame and body with welding at the same time.

If you are nervous about notches or anything there are alot of things you can use to practice on. I use a tube notcher (hole saw) for simple ones and to get close on difficult copes, then its off to the flap disc.

The cardboard for rolls of gift wrapping works well to practice a notch on. Even if its too small it will still give you a good grasp on what you need to do on your tube.

Final word on cage design if you think you might hit your head anywhere on your cage you will. So try to design it where you have quite a bit of room around you.

Can't wait to see it done

 

[MTBLAZER89]

Yeah I am 5'5" so I will have plenty of room regardless, but yeah planning on keeping it as tight to the body as i can get it. Thats one reason I want the A-pillars through the dash. I sat in the seat and didnt like the idea of the bar next to my leg.

Yeah I have the Pro-Tools hole saw nothcher. I built my front bumper as my first tube project so I am learning as I go here. Reading a LOT!

I am really wanting it to look similar to Rene's old Cage and the UAV cage when it was full bodied.

 

[MTBLAZER89]

Ok so A-pillars through the dash. Is this possible with the windshield in?


Another idea I was thinking of. A-pillar outside of the windshield frame and over the cab. Drop down in front of the firewall inside the fender. Cross bar outside the cab under the windshield. Cut holes in the front corners of the cab to bring a crossbar inside above the windshield. B pillar portion of the cage would be in the normal internal postion. The Hybrid Exo/internal forward portion would join back in with the internal portion at the B-Pillar.

Kind of like Horton but with a half cab.

Crazy?

 

[cybrfire]

Another tip, Some joints of the cage will be difficult to fully weld. The tighter you build it the harder it will get.

Sometimes you can Get things tacked in place then remove a section and do the welds, set it back in place and attach it to the floor/frame whatever the case may be.

Take for instance, a dash bar between the A pillar bars and the upper door bar. If done properly these can be all tacked together and then "Leaned down" into the passenger area to be welded in the tough spots. Perhaps even partially painted at this time.

For instance,

 

[ryoken]

that's the reason i did my floor last on my project.. put it all up, tack it in place, leave the legs long, drop it down and fully weld it.. worked out nice in my case... and yeah, i did a bunch of pre-priming...

 

[MTBLAZER89]

LOL Did both you guys miss my A-pillar questions?

Yeah i figured I will tilt it back, or do the holes in the floor and drop it down to get those top welds inside.