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California headers???

izzy1776

izzy1776

I caught the CK5 bug
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Hello all, I've got a 77 K5 with a 400sbc and I'm looking for some California smog legal headers. I have spoke with summit racing and they where kind of helpful in that they suggested an $800 pair of JBA's. Any other ideas of what to look for or where to look. Thank you in advance for you help.
 
They have to have a CARB exemption, right?

Do you have AIR? Edelbrock used to make their "TES" headers (I don't see them on their website), and as I recall they had AIR fittings, but for the most part, AFAIK there is nothing ready-made with AIR, let alone CARB approved.

Maybe someone will prove me wrong, but I've seen others ask this question and I don't recall seeing any solutions.
 
Yeah the truck has AIR injection on the manifolds. I've found a bunch of headers with that option but I am having trouble with that CARB certification.
 
Definitely post up what you find. Keeping legal for inspections even in other states (if not CARB approved) may help others.
 
Three options:

1) Find a set of Edelbrock TES shorty headers and mount them up. This is what I am running, but I was able to get them through Summit back in 2010. It seems not even Ebay has them now. You might Google it and see if anyone has overstock. Well worth the search in money saved. The headers aren't the best though. I had to kinda the passenger side collector as they don't weld it all the way around and leaks. They also use an "Edelbrock only" crush donut on the driver side.

2) Shell out the cash for the JBAs

3) Run another companies header that has AIR injection. Go to the same smog guy that does everything for you. Hope he doesn't care about the CARB stamp, and only that everything is hooked up.


Or just run manifolds :(
 
What I've learned through almost 30 years of getting cars smogged in Cali is that if it has it, don't remove it or add to it (like cutouts or even dual exhaust for certain makes/models). In other words, the AIR, the O2 and the cold start flap/valve (if yours are equipped with it) should be in place in order to pass the visual. Since you have a '77, you obviously dont need the 02.

I use the same Edelbrock TES system as K85Octane on my '86 K5 because it retains all 3 of the components I needed to pass a visual. The kit I used was for a '81-'88 K10 (#68283) and it fit like a glove + I like that I didn't have to modify the A/C bracket although I had to weld/bend a new connector pipe from the Y to the catalytic. You might still be able to find that particular kit but as K85 said, they are no longer in production. I do agree that the quality is lacking on these headers. I already have rust forming on the joints.

My original plan (before discovering the Edelbrocks) was to use magnaflow headers that were already drilled for AIR manifolds (non CARB which I still have brand new in the box). My issue was finding a cold start flap/valve that could be retrofitted on to or bolted after the collector so I can pass visual. I know there was a company out there that makes them but I forget the name.

The thing about the CARB exemption (I have two Enviro engineering friends that work at the offices in El Monte) is that they realize that the smog techs are not always going to be able to verify an aftermarket part's status. In my area, there are about 10 or so smog stations within a 3 mile radius and I run everything from chips to cat backs and have only been asked once if it was CARB approved and he didn't even confirm it (according to my friends the CARB cert only tests to see if it raises pollution levels beyond a pre-determined amount - which they try to lower yearly). It's nearly impossible for a smog tech to know exactly what smog equipment each car has. If he really had to do the research, each test could take double or triple the time (but also why there are "referees"). The new thing being phased in is the STAR testing program which basically monitors the smog tech's shop and how they deal with vehicles that don't pass. In talking to my local smog guy, they are assigned "points" if they are not able to get a car to pass or it has difficulty meeting the standards and they eventually pay out a fine or penalty once they exceed a certain number. In other words, the state forces hardship on the ones that aren't compliant which will eventually force them out of business. The guy I use conforms to the State standards as much as possible but he does take a hit every once in a while - which he accepts, because he's not perfect and knows its impossible to cover everything. (He showed me the state's daily record of the shop)

On a sidenote: has anyone been rejected a smog b/c of their tires? I was told anything larger than a 35" can damage the rollers...

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What newer engine swaps can be done in California that would be legal? Obviously TBI, can't recall if that would eliminate AIR and the flapper valve, but when you start talking $700 JUST to run a set of headers, if there is an engine swap available, it might start to become a consideration.

Obviously an engine swap is going to be expensive, but so is $700 for a set of headers. And from what I see of the Thorley's, there is no mention of AIR, which means they would be illegal in *this* case, no?
 
Not for tires I rolled some 37 swappers last time no questions asked, and if you can go on the rollers because of wad then you get a two speed idle test.
 
good to know about the tire size. Probably the guy didn't want to deal with my "old truck" & made up the excuse. strangely the last time i smogged my k5 with a new transmission (less than 100 miles), the 1-2 shift was strong enough to keep "jarring" the system into default or resetting. The tech guy didn't know what was going on and figured it was some kind of calibration with the rollers. everything's so darn sensitive with the equipment - I miss the days of just the tail pipe sniffer.

Honestly, the state will continue to make it harder for our vehicles to comply which will force us to do a newer engine swap just to pass smog (after being ref'd of course). our trucks are prefect candidates for the new LS smog crate packages so that would eliminate most (if not all) the smog equipment they currently have. Other alternatives is to take an original diesel truck and swap in a gas motor (smog exempt since birth) or do what my transmission guy did and rebody his pre '75 model (exempt) with a newer K5 while retaining the pre '75 VIN.

Its a mess here - & it gets worse: even the newer diesels models will need to get smogged. Its difficult to see a newer car fail a smog test due to something as simple as an EVAP failure (bad gas cap)
 
It is looking like I will be running the stock manifolds for now. I've only saved up a little money to blow on my project and getting it running is the main priority. Was just hoping to kill two birds with one stone. I will look for the edelbrock ones though to see if I get lucky.
 
dyeager535 said:
What newer engine swaps can be done in California that would be legal? Obviously TBI, can't recall if that would eliminate AIR and the flapper valve, but when you start talking $700 JUST to run a set of headers, if there is an engine swap available, it might start to become a consideration.

Obviously an engine swap is going to be expensive, but so is $700 for a set of headers. And from what I see of the Thorley's, there is no mention of AIR, which means they would be illegal in *this* case, no?
Click to expand...

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/dte-364y1-da-c/overview/

Brand:Doug Thorley Headers

Manufacturer's Part Number:364Y1-DA-C

Part Type:Headers

Product Line:Doug Thorley Tri-Y Headers

Summit Racing Part Number:DTE-364Y1-DA-C



Header Style:Tri-Y

Header Material:Steel

Header Finish:Silver ceramic coated

Weld-Up:No

Primary Tube Diameter (in):1 5/8 in.

Collector Attachment:Stock flange

Collector Diameter:2.500 in.

Tuned:No

Primary Tube Gauge:14-gauge

Flange Style:Standard

Flange Thickness (in):3/8 in.

Bolts/Studs Included:Yes

Gaskets Included:Yes

Reducers Included:No

Cross Over Pipe Included:Yes

Cross Over Pipe Style:Y-pipe

Cross Over Pipe Diameter:2.500 in.

Catalytic Converter(s) Included:No

Motor Mounts Included:No

Transmission Mount Included:No

Quantity:Sold as a kit.

Notes:Fits vehicles with heat risers. Dual AIR injection fittings, one on each header.
 
Right now I just finished installing the Doug Thorley's on my 87 K5. Mine do have the AIR setup, but its got 4 air inlets per exhaust exit on each side vs the single on the stock manifolds I had. These do have the CARB EO number and all I had to do was source the AIR tubes for both sides, new check valves and replumb. Install was a real PIA, had to move all the AC brackets etc...and also had to do some cut and welding. But now that they are on, they fit beautifully, and it all looks stock, well it is stock...nothing was changed SMOG wise, still have the o2 etc. The only difference I see is that the o2 sensor on the Doug Thorley TriY is tapped into the #7 exhaust tube, and thus get's AIR mixed into the exhaust gasses from #3 and #7 ports...vs stock which mixes with all of them on drivers side before the sensor. I don't think this will be an issue, but if it is, I can move the o2 bung to the collector. With the new style cat I think the efficiency is much greater than the old one, which required the AIR injection in the first place. I doubt the new one needs AIR to pass SMOG, but it may have to be there for o2 to adjust mixture. ANyways I'm also running a new style cat (had my old system stolen) which is why I have to replace it all. All that is left is getting a crossover pipe fabbed from both headers to the cat and I should be good to go. Planning on having the muffler shop just cross under the front drive shaft (with clearance) to the other side before it enters the cat to my single Flowmaster exhaust. If anyone wants pics I can take some.


Pics added.

1. Stock manifold with AIR
2. Driver side Cut A/C bracket to fit w/welded support on top
3. Pass side with new plumbing (literally) fixtures
4. Driver side #EO Plate
5. Underside clearance - THe DT's have plenty of room around the shackles (IMO designed really well)

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IMG_1683.JPG

IMG_1687.JPG

IMG_1686.JPG
 
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Please get some pics. I am in the same boat but I think there may be a way to skin the Cali cat! I want to get rid of the air pump. 1991 5.7 liters came with the serp set up minus the air pump. They had stock manifolds minus the air inlet. Some of the earlier 1990's had the same set up with plugs. That later years had them without the plugs and cast closed.

I have the serp set up and a computer for a California 1991 c1500. You replace the computer and it smogs as a 1991. Per the DMV Referee, if the engine is replaced the vehicle has to smog to the newer model year requrements. Not a big deal since the later years were sans the air pump and all the crap that came with it. I could go headers, replace my aging cat, modify the exhaust pipes from the headers and it is all legit.
 
some of you guys may be interested in this setup (not mine).

http://sacramento.craigslist.org/pts/4332819158.html

NICE ELDERBROCK HEADERS AND COMPLEAT EXHAUST WITH A NICE CAT ITS 250 FOR THE COMPLEAT EXHAUST AND IT CAME OFF A 85 K5 AND IT WAS A 4X4 AND THE EXHAUST WILL BE A DERICT BOLT ON SO IF YOU HAVE ANY MORE QUESTIONS GIVE ME A CALL 530 389 2901 ASK FOR JOHN
Click to expand...
 
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