Pookster
1/2 ton status
While my small block just turned 130k, and it is still running strong, do you think running synthetic motor oil will help prevent the onset of wearing out?
CK5
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Can synthetic oils prevent the onset of tiredness for a small block?
- Thread starter Pookster
- Start date
zcarczar
1/2 ton status
Yes, that is one of the great things about sythentic is that it doesnt break down near as easy as dinojuice, thus providing superior lubrication with longer service intervals.
I also asked a guy at work about this and he said at the old shop he worked at they tore an engine apart with 200k miles on it that had been running mobil 1 sythentic and it was spotless inside and had little-no wear on the components.
I also asked a guy at work about this and he said at the old shop he worked at they tore an engine apart with 200k miles on it that had been running mobil 1 sythentic and it was spotless inside and had little-no wear on the components.
gonecheenin
1/2 ton status
thats all i run is synthetic oils, 15w50 Mobil 1 in the engine and 75w90 Amsoil in the diff's and manual trans/t-case, haven't tried the auto trans synthetic yet though
Can Can
Pusher Man
The only thing I've *heard* is that synthetic oil actually pulls accumulations of sludge out of nooks and crannies in your motor, kinda like a slow-acting engine flush. This is a good thing, unless some of that sludge is holding old and tired seals together.....
Like mj says, you can't beat regular oil changes, regardless of the brand you use. Im my 84 I use the cheapest oil I can find but change it out every 2500 miles because it's dirty by then.
[ QUOTE ]
I also asked a guy at work about this and he said at the old shop he worked at they tore an engine apart with 200k miles on it that had been running mobil 1 sythentic and it was spotless inside and had little-no wear on the components.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't want to be an ass, but everybody I know has a similar story they've heard from friends/workmates. Has anybody out there actually seen with their own eyes how clean a synthetic-run engine REALLY is after 200k? /forums/images/graemlins/thinking.gif
Like mj says, you can't beat regular oil changes, regardless of the brand you use. Im my 84 I use the cheapest oil I can find but change it out every 2500 miles because it's dirty by then.
[ QUOTE ]
I also asked a guy at work about this and he said at the old shop he worked at they tore an engine apart with 200k miles on it that had been running mobil 1 sythentic and it was spotless inside and had little-no wear on the components.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't want to be an ass, but everybody I know has a similar story they've heard from friends/workmates. Has anybody out there actually seen with their own eyes how clean a synthetic-run engine REALLY is after 200k? /forums/images/graemlins/thinking.gif
gonecheenin
1/2 ton status
I can tell you from my personal experiance that synthetic raises and maintains oil pressure way better and runs cooler when hot
My Girl friend has a 78' F-150 with a wornout old 351M V-8 (OK everybody quit laughing and making fun, lets just concentrate on the subject at hand)
Annnnyway, it had horrible oil pressure at hot idle with the standard M series Ferd main bearing knock I put a qt of lucas oil addative and filled it the rest of the way with 20w50 and it was much better like that
TILL WINTER, now the truck wouldn't get oil pressure for literally about 3-5 minutes when started on a 20-30 degree day, i knew that wasn't good for it so i decided to try synthetics,and i tell you now i will NEVER go back to convential oil unless it is a peice of crap vehicle that i could care less about
That old 351M, with straight Mobil 1 15w50 in it, started with no problems even when below zero outside and had oil pressure within' 5-10 seconds, plus it never showed the oil light again even hot from driving for hours, at the lowest idle, in gear (its a auto obviously), at a stoplight. The main bearing knock was also much quieter and more difficult to notice.
The myth of it cleaning better than conventional oil is untrue, conventional oil allready has a detergent in it to clean your engine internally as long as you change it often enough for that quality to stay ahead of the sludge, however it has been said that synthetic will leak a little more than conventional because it is a more consistent molecular design (read rounded), rather then the shale (pointy and irregular shapes) looking molecules in natural oil's
the leak is nothing horrible though (trust me Kateys Ferd mark's it spot no more than it did before, that i can tell anyway)
and the benefits are WELL worth the 5 dollar qt of oil every 500 miles (200 if your runnin' it hard /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif)
Just my humble opinion
My Girl friend has a 78' F-150 with a wornout old 351M V-8 (OK everybody quit laughing and making fun, lets just concentrate on the subject at hand)
Annnnyway, it had horrible oil pressure at hot idle with the standard M series Ferd main bearing knock I put a qt of lucas oil addative and filled it the rest of the way with 20w50 and it was much better like that
TILL WINTER, now the truck wouldn't get oil pressure for literally about 3-5 minutes when started on a 20-30 degree day, i knew that wasn't good for it so i decided to try synthetics,and i tell you now i will NEVER go back to convential oil unless it is a peice of crap vehicle that i could care less about
That old 351M, with straight Mobil 1 15w50 in it, started with no problems even when below zero outside and had oil pressure within' 5-10 seconds, plus it never showed the oil light again even hot from driving for hours, at the lowest idle, in gear (its a auto obviously), at a stoplight. The main bearing knock was also much quieter and more difficult to notice.
The myth of it cleaning better than conventional oil is untrue, conventional oil allready has a detergent in it to clean your engine internally as long as you change it often enough for that quality to stay ahead of the sludge, however it has been said that synthetic will leak a little more than conventional because it is a more consistent molecular design (read rounded), rather then the shale (pointy and irregular shapes) looking molecules in natural oil's
the leak is nothing horrible though (trust me Kateys Ferd mark's it spot no more than it did before, that i can tell anyway)
and the benefits are WELL worth the 5 dollar qt of oil every 500 miles (200 if your runnin' it hard /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif)
Just my humble opinion
Can Can
Pusher Man
I don't wanna start a fight, brother, but I need some clarification on a couple of points:
1.[ QUOTE ]
I can tell you from my personal experiance that synthetic raises and maintains oil pressure way better
[/ QUOTE ] You mention that synthetic maintains a better oil pressure, yet at the same time you state that your GFs truck has a "oil warning light" and not a gauge. How do you know without a gauge that synthetic "maintains oil pressure way better"? /forums/images/graemlins/dunno.gif
2.[ QUOTE ]
and runs cooler when hot
[/ QUOTE ] Did your GF's truck have an oil temp gauge? /forums/images/graemlins/thinking.gif
See, I actually agree that synthetic is probably better for the motor. What I hate is that everybody out there has a story making synthetic sound like it's from heaven without any concrete proof or figures. Heck, I've had people quote me stuff right off the Mobil1 or Amsoil sites- im my experience, manufacturer claims should be taken with a grain of salt.
Anyhow, like I said, I'm not trying to start a battle. I just wish everyone out there could back up their miracle synthetic stories with some sort of proof.
1.[ QUOTE ]
I can tell you from my personal experiance that synthetic raises and maintains oil pressure way better
[/ QUOTE ] You mention that synthetic maintains a better oil pressure, yet at the same time you state that your GFs truck has a "oil warning light" and not a gauge. How do you know without a gauge that synthetic "maintains oil pressure way better"? /forums/images/graemlins/dunno.gif
2.[ QUOTE ]
and runs cooler when hot
[/ QUOTE ] Did your GF's truck have an oil temp gauge? /forums/images/graemlins/thinking.gif
See, I actually agree that synthetic is probably better for the motor. What I hate is that everybody out there has a story making synthetic sound like it's from heaven without any concrete proof or figures. Heck, I've had people quote me stuff right off the Mobil1 or Amsoil sites- im my experience, manufacturer claims should be taken with a grain of salt.
Anyhow, like I said, I'm not trying to start a battle. I just wish everyone out there could back up their miracle synthetic stories with some sort of proof.
darkshadow
1 ton status
yeah i would like to know for sure as well.
its like that water injector thingy every one hure or was told something and i really wanted to know. /forums/images/graemlins/dunno.gif
its like that water injector thingy every one hure or was told something and i really wanted to know. /forums/images/graemlins/dunno.gif
Pookster
1/2 ton status
I run it exclusively in my track mustang. (Mobil 1)- but now they changed their formulation, and I havent exhuasted my supply yet- But Im looking for a better replacement.
I will say this, when I had mobil 1 on my ford probe GT (turbo) the engine idled smoother- Also, underneath the valve cover was cleaner after 2 oil changes than from the previous owner (who was a mechanic and changed it every 3k.). It wasnt that it was dirty inside, but there was a dark almost baked on coating. Think caramel colored. AFter a few changes on mobil 1, the color was gone.
I will say this, when I had mobil 1 on my ford probe GT (turbo) the engine idled smoother- Also, underneath the valve cover was cleaner after 2 oil changes than from the previous owner (who was a mechanic and changed it every 3k.). It wasnt that it was dirty inside, but there was a dark almost baked on coating. Think caramel colored. AFter a few changes on mobil 1, the color was gone.
zcarczar
1/2 ton status
I can actually switched over to synthetic recently because I too heard that it does keep oil pressure from dropping. Before I ran synthetic I would either run penzoil 5w-30 or 15w-40 Delo depending on what i had left over from work. Well Idle hot in the summer I would be making 7 PSI at a stop light when it was 100* out with the A/C running. So far with the 15w-50 Mobil 1 it hasnt dipped below 15 PSI at idle hot in the same conditions as before and usually its up around 30-45PSI, much better than before when it was hot all I could get was 35 PSI of pressure at 4K RPM. Oh and the engine is a lot smoother than before.
thezentree
3/4 ton status
i actually noticed a small drop in oil pressure when i switched to synthetic. only 2 or 3 psi, but its definately a little lower. my motor does run better while running Mobil 1 synthetic 10W-30. i started using lucas oil stabilizer, which quieted it more, and i noticed a slight gain in fuel mileage /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
anyway, full synthetic is the [censored] /forums/images/graemlins/waytogo.gif
anyway, full synthetic is the [censored] /forums/images/graemlins/waytogo.gif
inscape
Registered Member
I put 10-30 synthetic blend in my k5. I don't know how many miles are on the engine but it's burning it. The oil pressure is better though, should I put 15w-50 in it? and how long do you think my engine will last until I need to replace it?
gonecheenin
1/2 ton status
Well Canmore, the way i can tell that it maintains oil pressure better is by the fact that the light no longer comes on at hot idle, as i stated above in my original post that you quoted parts of. Perhaps you should reread it? Also, i did not mention the fact that i did the same thing with a freshly overhauled 350ci in a Blazer, while breaking the engine in on conventional 10w40 (synthetic is so slippery that pro's will tell you to NEVER break in a engine on synthetic, that says something for it right there to me) i saw hot idle oil pressure's in the 7-15 psi range, after it was broke in i changed to Mobil 1 15w50 based on my experiance with the GF's truck and the hot idle oil pressure went to 20-30 psi (high volume/high pressure Melling pump )
As for the cooler part, you are correct, i have no temp gauge and in fact my basis for the synthetic running cooler is in a rear axle and not in a engine, however i would certianly think that it would carry over to some degree (the diff cover on my 14bff in my 74' k20 with 4:11 gears and 36" TSL radials was too hot to touch after driving for 45 min's straight on the turnpike at 70 mph with conventional 75w90 valvoline in it, now with synthetic 75w90 amsoil in it you can hold your hand on the diff cover after exactly the same conditions, still hot but definitly tolerable)
i have also placed a qt of 15w50 mobil and a qt of pennzoil 10w40 out in the snow over night (approx. 0-15 degrees) the next morning i picked them up and shook them, then poured them out, the 10w40 conv. was like friggin' STP oil treatment it was so thick, the mobil however poured and shook just like it did at 80 degrees. Synthetic, being manmade, just doesn't react to temp. changes on either end of the spectrum like natural oils do.
One last pesional experiance;
My boss at NAPA once was gonna junk a S-10 p/u because the 4.3l was so worn out and had such bad bearing clearances (but it didn't knock yet) that the oil pressure dropped low enough to allow the oil pressure switch to kick the fuel pump off.
Guess what?
Yep, 15w50 mobil 1 synthetic, ran that truck till the sticker ran out and it NEVER shut off again
scientific, no
Do i honestly beleive in it, yes
and i feel that even if i'm wrong, it will be no worse for any metal part then any good conventional oil.
therefore, i got nothing to lose but a few extra dollars
I don't really care who runs it or who doesn't, that choice is yours, I however will, just thought i would share my experiance's with it /forums/images/graemlins/waytogo.gif
As for the cooler part, you are correct, i have no temp gauge and in fact my basis for the synthetic running cooler is in a rear axle and not in a engine, however i would certianly think that it would carry over to some degree (the diff cover on my 14bff in my 74' k20 with 4:11 gears and 36" TSL radials was too hot to touch after driving for 45 min's straight on the turnpike at 70 mph with conventional 75w90 valvoline in it, now with synthetic 75w90 amsoil in it you can hold your hand on the diff cover after exactly the same conditions, still hot but definitly tolerable)
i have also placed a qt of 15w50 mobil and a qt of pennzoil 10w40 out in the snow over night (approx. 0-15 degrees) the next morning i picked them up and shook them, then poured them out, the 10w40 conv. was like friggin' STP oil treatment it was so thick, the mobil however poured and shook just like it did at 80 degrees. Synthetic, being manmade, just doesn't react to temp. changes on either end of the spectrum like natural oils do.
One last pesional experiance;
My boss at NAPA once was gonna junk a S-10 p/u because the 4.3l was so worn out and had such bad bearing clearances (but it didn't knock yet) that the oil pressure dropped low enough to allow the oil pressure switch to kick the fuel pump off.
Guess what?
Yep, 15w50 mobil 1 synthetic, ran that truck till the sticker ran out and it NEVER shut off again
scientific, no
Do i honestly beleive in it, yes
and i feel that even if i'm wrong, it will be no worse for any metal part then any good conventional oil.
therefore, i got nothing to lose but a few extra dollars
I don't really care who runs it or who doesn't, that choice is yours, I however will, just thought i would share my experiance's with it /forums/images/graemlins/waytogo.gif
Can Can
Pusher Man
[ QUOTE ]
Well Canmore, the way i can tell that it maintains oil pressure better is by the fact that the light no longer comes on at hot idle, as i stated above in my original post that you quoted parts of. Perhaps you should reread it?
[/ QUOTE ]
What? Did you get out of bed on the wrong side this morning, son? No need to be an asshat with your reply!!! /forums/images/graemlins/deal.gif And besides, the fact that the light no longer came on doesn't prove to me that your oil pressure was restored to anything more than enough to keep the sensor from firing.
Anyhow, if you would kindly re-read MY reply, you'd notice that the gist of my message was to try and get responses that were based on fact, not gut feelings. The danger of those kinds of statements is that others read them and start spewing stories like "A guy I knew.........blah blah blah".
That is all.......
Well Canmore, the way i can tell that it maintains oil pressure better is by the fact that the light no longer comes on at hot idle, as i stated above in my original post that you quoted parts of. Perhaps you should reread it?
[/ QUOTE ]
What? Did you get out of bed on the wrong side this morning, son? No need to be an asshat with your reply!!! /forums/images/graemlins/deal.gif And besides, the fact that the light no longer came on doesn't prove to me that your oil pressure was restored to anything more than enough to keep the sensor from firing.
Anyhow, if you would kindly re-read MY reply, you'd notice that the gist of my message was to try and get responses that were based on fact, not gut feelings. The danger of those kinds of statements is that others read them and start spewing stories like "A guy I knew.........blah blah blah".
That is all.......
Pookster
1/2 ton status
I thank you all for your inputs! Lets not have a war here, Im just trying to preserve our k5's for as long as possible.
so did you notice the changes of 5w to 15w to 20w running in his posts?
ah yeah 20w is gonna be a tad thicker then 5w
as for cold viscosity, that is going to affect the motor for how long? maybe 5 minutes after startup in a normal climate, a northern one perhaps a bit longer.
you need to match the oil to the application rather then jumping from 5w sewing machine oil to heavy 20w50 at a whim
maybe run the 20 in the heat of the summer and 5w synthetic in the extreme cold of winter
synthetics have there place, transmission and difs IMO
ah yeah 20w is gonna be a tad thicker then 5w
as for cold viscosity, that is going to affect the motor for how long? maybe 5 minutes after startup in a normal climate, a northern one perhaps a bit longer.
you need to match the oil to the application rather then jumping from 5w sewing machine oil to heavy 20w50 at a whim
maybe run the 20 in the heat of the summer and 5w synthetic in the extreme cold of winter
synthetics have there place, transmission and difs IMO
FWP
CRS
Not sure if synthetic will help at 130K, but you more than likely will see leaks, where there weren't any before /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif.
84_Chevy_K10
Banned
[ QUOTE ]
synthetics have there place, transmission and difs
[/ QUOTE ]
Agreed with one exception.
If you're going to switch a new engine to synthetic and use bypass filtration/oil analysis to increase your drain intervals, synthetic is worth it.
Otherwise, dead dinosour juice works just fine.
The majority of road driven vehicles cannot benefit from synthetic oil as much as you think.
There is no question that they are a superior lubricant, expecially at extreme temperatures, but the majority will never see any real benefit at all.
Mobil 1 is one of the poorest performing synthetics on the market. It's good, but compared to other synthetics, it's really not all that great.
synthetics have there place, transmission and difs
[/ QUOTE ]
Agreed with one exception.
If you're going to switch a new engine to synthetic and use bypass filtration/oil analysis to increase your drain intervals, synthetic is worth it.
Otherwise, dead dinosour juice works just fine.
The majority of road driven vehicles cannot benefit from synthetic oil as much as you think.
There is no question that they are a superior lubricant, expecially at extreme temperatures, but the majority will never see any real benefit at all.
Mobil 1 is one of the poorest performing synthetics on the market. It's good, but compared to other synthetics, it's really not all that great.
There was a really good article in a SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers) journal a while back about synthetics. A university out in Wisonsin I think did some comparisons under extreme conditions. I think the point of the article is that at high heat(summer driving) and very cold (winter starting) the synthetic was much better. But under normal conditions there was no advantage. The opinon I formed from the article was that synthetic was the way to go not taking into account the price difference.
-Chris
-Chris
gonecheenin
1/2 ton status
Well, i was not trying to be anymore of a "Asshat" then i felt you were being by starting off your reply with "Not trying to start a fight here brother, but" I felt you had perhaps gotten up on the wrong side of the bed before i did.
However, as you said, i'm not trying to cause a fight, i'm just giving my opinion as the gentleman requested. The oil pressure light no longer coming on does indicate for a FACT that the oil pressure is no longer dropping as low as it once was, and i never once said that it was where it should be. The worn out engine that i was using as a example will only see correct oil pressure readings after a overhaul, the fact that the HOT oil pressure had changed enough to stop the oil light from coming on is all i was looking at.
Also, Mr. MJ, i never had a 5w anything in my post, anyone who runs anything thinner then 10w-30 in winter and 10w-40 in summer in an old chevy small block is a fool in my opinion. What i said was that i went from 20w-50 which was WAY to thick to run in winter even though when the wornout 351M engine was hot it required something that thick because of it's high bearing clearences, to 15w50 synthetic for all seasons since the low pouring temp allowed it to start up fine even in below freezing temp's where the conventional 20w-50 would not
(and before you notice that the first number changed and you start on another "look how he doesn't know anything" post, the closest weight to 20w50 that you can get in Mobil 1 is
15w-50 and if you look at castrol synthetic in their opinion synthetic is so versatile that they cover the entire range with a 5w50)
Also as Sick quad said, the benifiting difference's are during a extreme Hot or Cold condition, i've never noticed a difference in the middle or under what would be considered "Normal" conditions
I'm not trying to say you can't run a conventional oil, i'm just saying that i feel and have had my own experiance's that tell me that there is a definite advantage to running synthetics and i feel it is worth the few extra bucks
And i leave you with this, the Dodge Viper's V-10 engine REQUIRES synthetic oils for warranty coverage
However, as you said, i'm not trying to cause a fight, i'm just giving my opinion as the gentleman requested. The oil pressure light no longer coming on does indicate for a FACT that the oil pressure is no longer dropping as low as it once was, and i never once said that it was where it should be. The worn out engine that i was using as a example will only see correct oil pressure readings after a overhaul, the fact that the HOT oil pressure had changed enough to stop the oil light from coming on is all i was looking at.
Also, Mr. MJ, i never had a 5w anything in my post, anyone who runs anything thinner then 10w-30 in winter and 10w-40 in summer in an old chevy small block is a fool in my opinion. What i said was that i went from 20w-50 which was WAY to thick to run in winter even though when the wornout 351M engine was hot it required something that thick because of it's high bearing clearences, to 15w50 synthetic for all seasons since the low pouring temp allowed it to start up fine even in below freezing temp's where the conventional 20w-50 would not
(and before you notice that the first number changed and you start on another "look how he doesn't know anything" post, the closest weight to 20w50 that you can get in Mobil 1 is
15w-50 and if you look at castrol synthetic in their opinion synthetic is so versatile that they cover the entire range with a 5w50)
Also as Sick quad said, the benifiting difference's are during a extreme Hot or Cold condition, i've never noticed a difference in the middle or under what would be considered "Normal" conditions
I'm not trying to say you can't run a conventional oil, i'm just saying that i feel and have had my own experiance's that tell me that there is a definite advantage to running synthetics and i feel it is worth the few extra bucks
And i leave you with this, the Dodge Viper's V-10 engine REQUIRES synthetic oils for warranty coverage
