Changing from external coil to internal HEI? Catastrophic failure!!!!!

[Fordum]

I have got to slow down on my reading.
I entirely missed that it was a jet.
Been assuming it was an outdrive. That was why I suggested the muff.

The hose trick is the best. Occasionally its easier to get to the pump end than the thru hull. If so, a short piece of hole that size can be clamped onto the pump and the hose hooked to that.

In the future, if you want to just run it a little to check things out and don't want to go to that much trouble, look into an outside hookup.

 

[folkenheath]

hey Ryoken (etc), quick couple questions.

Can you guess what kind of idle timing and idle rpm this thing should be at?

Also, how can I work on it while on the trailer? Meaning, running the motor with the garden hose attached some how. My Seadoo is easy, but I don't see how I can with the boat.

Thanks man

I have had a jet drive big block berkely boat for years, in my boat, there is no water pump, because the jet IS a big bump. It should just have a port coming out of the jet where water is supplied to the engine. But, you have to be careful, because in a jet, water is the only thing that lubricates the wear ring and impeller as well. I have started my boat with a garden hose supplying water with an adaptor spliced between the engine and jet right outside that port. However, water can flow freely out the jet and/or through the engine, so you really don't know how much is going where. Because of this, I do not run it long like that at all, never do. Maybe 20 - 30 seconds and that's it.

Does your boat have an engine cover?

EDIT: I see ryoken is on top of it, he will have more experience with it than I do, I have only worked on about 4 jet boats, not 4 million or anything.

 

[ryoken]

I have had a jet drive big block berkely boat for years, in my boat, there is no water pump, because the jet IS a big bump. It should just have a port coming out of the jet where water is supplied to the engine. But, you have to be careful, because in a jet, water is the only thing that lubricates the wear ring and impeller as well. I have started my boat with a garden hose supplying water with an adaptor spliced between the engine and jet right outside that port. However, water can flow freely out the jet and/or through the engine, so you really don't know how much is going where. Because of this, I do not run it long like that at all, never do. Maybe 20 - 30 seconds and that's it.

Does your boat have an engine cover?

EDIT: I see ryoken is on top of it, he will have more experience with it than I do, I have only worked on about 4 jet boats, not 4 million or anything.

nope, you'd have more experience with a berkely, I've never worked on one... I can build a Hamilton or Ultra jet with my eyes closed... Ultra's what the military uses.. but I've never worked on a berkely.....

and tho I'm not surprised at the berkely using the jet for a pump, i've never seen it.. all the hamiltons and ultras i've ever worked on, where as described, seacock fed to an engine driven pump... probably because they are larger jets...


is this a mid engine ski boat? or stern drive?

 

[K85 Octane]

I will get some pictures as soon as I can.

I can only describe it as a jet boat. Very low in the water, big pump sticking out of the back, the engine is all the way in the rear with a covered "hood". The driver is left side, middle of boat, with a steering wheel, foot throttle, and hand "gear" lever mounted to the left side. Open bow

 

[ryoken]

ok, it's a stern drive.. yay, pics!

 

[folkenheath]

nope, you'd have more experience with a berkely, I've never worked on one... I can build a Hamilton or Ultra jet with my eyes closed... Ultra's what the military uses.. but I've never worked on a berkely.....

and tho I'm not surprised at the berkely using the jet for a pump, i've never seen it.. all the hamiltons and ultras i've ever worked on, where as described, seacock fed to an engine driven pump... probably because they are larger jets...

Well I am sure it's the only marine item that I have worked on more of, because that is basically all I have worked on, berkely jet drive. I've only changed the bellows or something of 1 single I/O and that's it. Don't even remember what it was, was a Volvo big block Chevy or something abnormal if that makes any sense.

I will get some pictures as soon as I can.

I can only describe it as a jet boat. Very low in the water, big pump sticking out of the back, the engine is all the way in the rear with a covered "hood". The driver is left side, middle of boat, with a steering wheel, foot throttle, and hand "gear" lever mounted to the left side. Open bow

Same as mine. big block, berkely jet drive with the driver on the left side and an aluminum gas pedal. Mine is a "sleekcraft". They make great boats, big block, inexpensive, stupid simple to work on, and cheap to rebuild the jet too. I like skiing behind mine, the wake is small because the v is pretty shallow.

 

[ryoken]

yup, volvo marine package.. I was working on a sb one today... i'll take merc any day...

 

[K85 Octane]

I have failed at getting some pictures. There will be more tomorrow

PS> yes, it's a purple boat and trailer, not fond of it but can't paint it right now. Who cares

 

[folkenheath]

Damn that's bigger than I expected, a triple axle trailer! I didn't know chaparral made jet boats, or is that just the bimini cover? It looks nice though, and who cares if it's purple, it's a big block jet boat, it could be hot pink and baby blue and it would still be manly.

 

[K85 Octane]

ahahahaha

and the trailer is set up for a double deck, I just don't have the second deck. There's no suspension either so it's funny to watch it roll out of driveways etc.

The cover is just a cover, it's a Commander boat. I hope to have it out this Friday, I still need to finish up a relay for the electric fuel pump and coil. The coil wire is tiny and the fuel pump only works when I bypass it to the battery.

I got some more pictures but I'm waiting for my brother to get them off his Ipod touch.

 

[come.get.some]

Just a quick and probably simple question that I'm not sure about.

I tossed the old distributor and coil that were in my boat. I'm swapping in a Streetfire HEI. The old coil has a positive and negative post. I'm sure the positive is for the "coil positive" But what is the negative for? Is this where my tachometer goes, or some kind of ground? With everything ripped out, I'm only left with these two wires.

Thanks

the HEI has three terminals in the back (B+, ground and C-) and two in the front (BATT and TACH). so all you have to do is provide 12 volts to the Batt terminal with the key on as well as while cranking and that will get the distributor working.

 

[K85 Octane]

pictures not sure how helpful they are, I'd still like to run the engine while on the trailer, but for now I'm taking the boat out in the next few days, hopefully. Once it's cleaned up and in the water, I'll get some video and pics

 

[folkenheath]

Nice boat! Hook your vacuum advance to the small port under the front fuel bowl, it will idle better and run more efficient at part throttle. Just make sure when you set total timing you leave it unhooked.

Also, it's good to see that the jet bowl access port (the white cover with the two wing nuts on on the top of the jet just behind the back of the hull) is outside the hull. I've seen several boats where that access port is inside the hull, and then you are SOL if you get a rock or stick caught in the impeller, because if you open that when it's inside the boat, you just put a 4" hole in your boat! But if it's outside the boat, you can pop that cover off and reach down in there and remove whatever is in there most likely. Just make sure whoever is doing it has the boat key! And don't lose the wing nuts either or you are SOL anyway.

It's got a Place diverter too, those work great.

 

[K85 Octane]

Thanks man
What's a Place Diverter?

I'll look into getting the vacuum line hooked up, currently there is no nipple on the carb, anywhere haha, so that would need to be addressed before I can get vacuum. Trying to find time to finish off a new coil wire and electric pump relay. Once that's done, I can take it out hopefully Friday for a tuning trip.

 

[folkenheath]

In this picture, look to the right next to the front carb stud nut, there should be a nipple there right under the fuel bowl that has manifold vacuum.

A Place diverter is the thing at rear of the jet, it allows you to tilt the jet output up and down, kind of like a trim on an I/O boat. Yours looks to be hydraulically actuated (probably with an electric switch/motor), but you can also get cable/lever actuated controls for them. It allows you to aim the jet slightly output downward for skiing/tubing, etc. Also, if it's rough water, downward will keep the nose from bouncing while underway. Straight back will be the fastest, unless you are making a LOT of power, then upward will keep the nose up and less of the boat in the water, and also create the famous rooster tail 75 yards long.

Why do you need a new coil wire, isn't that an internal coil HEI? You just hook up 12V to the B+ terminal on the outside of the dizzy. (make sure it also has 12V DURING cranking). The other terminal is for a tach output. But beware, like Ryoken said, certain car parts don't belong on boats, it may not be safe.

 

[Blue85]

Thanks man
What's a Place Diverter?

I'll look into getting the vacuum line hooked up, currently there is no nipple on the carb, anywhere haha,

You could always tie it to manifold vacuum.

 

[K85 Octane]

I'm going to use the coil wire to trigger a couple relays. The coil wire is tiny, but has 12v keyed on. I'd like to up the size of the coil wire going to the coil, so I'm running a relay to the battery and triggering it with the old coil wire. At the same time, I'm also going to use the old coil wire to trigger a relay for the fuel pump. I figure both relays (plus one AUX relay) can be powered by the old coil wire easily. The accessories after the relays all have their own draw off the battery with larger wire. The ground from the relays will go straight to the battery (-).

Does this sound Kosher?

The trim (something I've always called it) is ran off what looks like air, or at least plastic tubing I've seen for air suspensions etc. The steering wheel has the buttons mounted to it, but no gauge to show it's current angle. (that would be nice) And yes, I had a friend on a Seadoo faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar behind the boat I nailed with the jet. I know it's powerful, so I only barely got him considering he was a mile back. I'd never do it any closer, it can throw you from the bike and hurt a lot, not to mention a possible ticket from The Man.

I will double check for vacuum fittings. I was fairly sure I already looked for one and was surprised not to see one, but being on a boat I didn't think it would be of use anyway.

 

[folkenheath]

I'm going to use the coil wire to trigger a couple relays. The coil wire is tiny, but has 12v keyed on. I'd like to up the size of the coil wire going to the coil, so I'm running a relay to the battery and triggering it with the old coil wire. At the same time, I'm also going to use the old coil wire to trigger a relay for the fuel pump. I figure both relays (plus one AUX relay) can be powered by the old coil wire easily. The accessories after the relays all have their own draw off the battery with larger wire. The ground from the relays will go straight to the battery (-).

Does this sound Kosher?

The trim (something I've always called it) is ran off what looks like air, or at least plastic tubing I've seen for air suspensions etc. The steering wheel has the buttons mounted to it, but no gauge to show it's current angle. (that would be nice) And yes, I had a friend on a Seadoo faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar behind the boat I nailed with the jet. I know it's powerful, so I only barely got him considering he was a mile back. I'd never do it any closer, it can throw you from the bike and hurt a lot, not to mention a possible ticket from The Man.

I will double check for vacuum fittings. I was fairly sure I already looked for one and was surprised not to see one, but being on a boat I didn't think it would be of use anyway.

Back when I was about 19 we got some pictures skiing under the jet rooster just to say we did it. (My dad had a wedge on his 2 piece bowl for a while) It would hurt just getting the little mist that comes off the jet, let alone the actual jet.

As for the relays, that will work fine, I don't know if there are any special rules for boat relays though.

Those trim buttons probably wire to a little hydraulic/electric motor assembly back by the engine, I've built an engine for a jet boat that had a control like that. Just trace the hoses off the cylinder and see where they go, you'll find it.

That carb has been messed with, the ported vacuum on the side of the metering block has a screw in it, and someone put teflon tape on the IF fittings. So it wouldn't surprise me if the one under the bowl was mangled too. I'd rather have advance on full manifold vacuum anyway though. So if they are missing, just put a T in that vacuum line going to the PCV valve.

 

[K85 Octane]

Thanks guy

I've seen the motor for the trim, and you're right, it just barely hidden by the motor in the pictures. I'll find a T fitting and put the vacuum advance in. Thanks again

 

[K85 Octane]

I do have one vacuum fitting on the carb, right in the front like you said. I can't believe I missed that. However, I only brought enough hose with me to tap into the PCV line, which I did after getting the motor running today.

Went from GREAT day with improved performance to CATASTROPHIC FAILURE....

Story:

Launched around 11am. Tied boat to the side of the dock, where it wouldn't be in the way. Broke out timing light and 14m wrench. Got motor to fire and timed motor at ~10* adv. Set the carb's idle and played with idle mixture screws. Unhooked from dock and set out.

Sped down the lake and got to about 45 according to speedo, felt sluggish like before. Played with timing again and loosened the dual accelerator pumps up for less fuel when stomping on it. Ran better.

Pulled over and cut the PCV line, installed T fitting and put it to dizzy. Played with carb idle settings again. Set out and felt MUCH better, quicker and faster. Hit about 55 in slightly rough water. Before, even on water like glass, it would only get up to about 45. With this carb and dizzy, I'm sure it will hit 60 no problem. Which isn't that fast, but I can tell there are many other things to address before its right.

Was cruising the lake, careful "The Man" doesn't pull me over for speeding (35mph) and just having some fun. Out of nowhere, while doing about 45, the engine stops and the boat is dead in the water. Opening the hood reveals lots of smoke and oil everywhere. I don't know the extent of the internal damage, but I know the engine ran out of oil and seized. It will not turn over. I had great oil pressure all day, but without hunting the problem down, it seems the remote mount oil filter hose gave out and sprayed oil everywhere. Within seconds I had a big block boat anchor.

I know the crank is wasted for sure and I'm praying that's all it is. I got a quote of $1k to pull the motor and put it back in. I will be fixing the engine.

Wonderful