Continuation of the injector pulse signal issue question

[4xcrazy]

I'm not with the truck currently, my dad is tinkering with it a bit with some ideas I gave him to try out.. He calls me back and asks if the coil was new, well, it's an after market one a friend gave me, but he says so far, that if he unplugs one of the plugs on the coil, and plugs it back in, so far it has restarted every time.

He just sent me a crappy pic of it and I forgot that these coils have two plugs on them.

Still too early for me here, and I haven't been able to mess with this thing in almost two years now,,, question.

If one of those plugs loses some sort of connection, will the signal to the ecm stop the injector pulse, but still maintain spark supply to the plugs. I ask this because when it DOES die off, I can always spurt a bit of ether down the intake and it will attempt to fire up but never take until I mess with wiring somewhere at or near the distributor.

Two plugs, one he says has a plug at the end of a wire that I always knew didn't go to anything.

Here's the pic he sent me, not the best of phones, he doesn't normally do pictures on the phone.



It would be great if we can finally pinpoint this problem, I'd hop on a plane by next weekend and get back there to get my truck home with me.

 

[4xcrazy]

Well, maybe it doesn't have anything to do with it, now he can't recreate the problem, it still just dies randomly.

He did say just awhile ago, he went to put the air cleaner lid back on, apparently bumped something and it died again.

 

[Burbdood 74]

If that's an MSD coil, do yourself a favor and chuck that POS as far as you can in the direction of a dump and put a factory coil on there. It might solve your problems.

 

[4xcrazy]

Back at that plug again, the black one on the coil, says he can wiggle the plug itself and it will either cause some stumbling or flat out stall the engine.

Not messing with the wire, but the actual plug, so maybe bad connections inside the coil with the terminals or something. I find it odd that a general auto parts store, like Autozone would also sell and stock those coil connector plugs. Seems like those wouldn't be that big of a seller and would be more of a dealer item, unless there are common problems with them.

He's gonna change out the coil and swap out the connector with one from a couple of good harnesses I took back there earlier and see what happens.

 

[4xcrazy]

I don't remember what it was honestly, it has a red wrapper on it, as he says.

it's gonna get a new one regardless.

 

[eagle mark]

The extra white wire is for the tachometer.

Any of the wires to coil or from/to ECM from the EST being faulty or loose connection can cause no spark, which will cause no fuel pulse.

 

[4xcrazy]

After a short bit of research, I believe it is a MSD Streetfire coil.

I remember the streetfire name after I looked them up. I didn't buy it, it was given to me by a friend, don't remember why though, maybe this is why. But it hadn't given any grief the whole time it was in Phoenix.

Eitherway, feeling pretty good that is where the issue may be, it's pretty consistant now with recreating some sort of engine stumble or stall by tinkering with that plug. Guessing bad internal connections in the coil, but if it still does it he's going to splice a new connector on it too.

 

[4xcrazy]

The extra white wire is for the tachometer.

Any of the wires to coil or from/to ECM from the EST being faulty or loose connection can cause no spark, which will cause no fuel pulse.

Confused on this really, because as stated before, usually when the engine would die out, I could spray ether down the intake and it would attempt to fire, so there was spark, just no fuel being supplied for continued running.

 

[eagle mark]

Your dad obviously found something back there and just removing an air cleaner or shaking the motor from starting could be enough for whatever the bad connection is.

If it's just weak spark then either will fire when gas won't.

EDIT: Maybe these tests will help? More then once I have seen a coil run when warm and not cold, but it does fail one of the tests.

 

[4xcrazy]

no work done on it for the next several days. :-/

 

[dyeager535]

Just a thought with the air cleaner statement (if there are multiple issues) is check the injector leads. Apparently pretty common for those to get pinched/cracked as they get brittle and crunched with the air cleaner, wouldn't hurt to just remove the connector off the injectors and look at those wires very closely. I'd probably even run a continuity check on each one of the wires if the insulation is crusty, while flexing the wire.

 

[4xcrazy]

Yes, they were checked pretty good by me, several times and by him because he too noticed the slight crimping on the wires. They are still good though, he pretty well determined it is at that coil wire, as stated before he could mess with it and cause it to either stumble or flat out die... although still not absolute 100%, as at this stage with research on this truck, I won't believe it until it is absolutely fixed and running like it should be, I don't trust it any longer...

Being that it is an aftermarket coil, I'm starting to wonder now if that is the reason it was GIVEN to me and told it worked fine. Either way, it's getting a factory coil put back on it.

 

[ktmoutfront]

The wires from the coil to the distributor were the ones that killed my BB13 trip and frustrated me for 3 weeks. Swaped them out and everything has been great. Was intermittent. Only died going up hill. Once it died going up, pulled to the side, rolled it back wards into a ditch so it was pointed down hill. Fired right up, drove and it died. Back in again and it started. Backed the truck up the hill. Then turned around and drove home.

I could have burned it to the ground.

 

[4xcrazy]

Up until just a few days ago, everything I have been told was that only certain components control injector pulse signal, I replaced control module a couple of times, and just said screw it and put a brand new distributor (not reman'd) in it.

Other sensors were replaced when the engine went in as new, so I basically didn't know there was also a signal type of wire from the coil, I figured it just sent power to the coil. So I was ready to replace the only other two items I thought it could be, which was the wiring harness, or the chip in the computer module.

We'll see what happens now with this new information, I just may have my truck back here with me by the end of this year. Then I can go explore some Washington trails with the locals and get to meet them as well .

 

[4xcrazy]

Well, pops changed out the coil, removed and verified it was in fact an MSD Streetfire unit. He also replaced the connector plug that was suspect of being part of the problem, and so far, almost a week later after daily checks, first am start up and through out the day, it fires up and stays running the whole time.

He lets it idle for quite some time, to warm the engine up, which takes a LONG time for this thing in that cold climate.

Doesn't bother me, I'd rather have it idling than sitting going to waste. This was one of the biggest issues I had with leaving it there, this engine and trans both were swapped out shortly before the trip back there from Phoenix a few years back, I don't even think I was able to do a full 500 mile break-in before we had to hit the road, did the break-in oil change a bit early on it. They both literally have MAYBE 3000 miles on them.

He's going to get it licensed again and run it up and down the street for awhile soon to give it road bumping tests and eventually drive it to and from work a few times to give it some road time to make absolute sure that was the problem.

But so far, it appears this was it. He also says he can't recreate any engine stumbling or stalling at all any longer by messing with those wires, also says it seems to idle much smoother.

I really hope this was it and hope this may help others in their search for possible issues similar to this as well.

 

[ktmoutfront]

Which plug did he change?

 

[4xcrazy]

kind of a crappy pic, he doesn't have the high dollar smart phone a lot of us do.

the one with the tach wire, not sure where the other goes. Thought it was the main power supply..

 

[eagle mark]

Hard to tell but the bigger pink one is to fused power and the smaller one is power to EST module in distributor.

Either one being faulty will be spark and fuel issues. The injectos need a DRP (Distributor Reference Pulse) to fire.

 

[ktmoutfront]

Mine was the other one. I still carry a spare all the time.

 

[4xcrazy]

Well, he registered and got insurance on it yesterday, driving it around a bit here and there. He has been tinkering with it almost daily with running it, letting it idle for long periods of time, driving it through and around the back yard, nothing has happened yet and it stays running the whole time.

Some crap happened here lately though which is going to cause my planned trip back there later this year to be cancelled, kind of sucks, but it is what it is and ya move on and figure something else out I guess, which I think we did.

The parents are planning on coming out sometime early next year, so I figure that'll give him enough time to tinker with things on it, drive it around to ensure it's going to work right and consistent. The plan is for his to rent a tow dolly and just drive my Burb out here, towing his Aveo behind it.

Part of the planned trip I was going back there for was to get my truck, but also to fix a few small things on mothers truck, and also get his car running due to a bad timing belt.

Plans changed

anyways, so far, it's still running, and apparently running better all the time with the new, fresh fuel being run through it, it sat for quite some time before being able to stay running.

I'm still hoping that was all it was, with the way things were going I was losing all trust in it and would have been VERY leary driving it back from Indiana to here.

I am kind of annoyed that about $35 in parts has basically cost me my transportation for the past two years along with the cost of recovery when it left me stranded in St. Louis in 2011.

Gas costs for two trucks, because I was pulling my little trailer, dad drove his brothers 2500 Chevy, mom drove her 4.3 powered pick-up, trailer rental cost and I offered to repay them lost wages for the two days they ended up taking off to come get me. One day of recovery, one day of mental recovery because it was a slow, overnight pull back home. So in all about $800 in total for everything I am having to pay them back on. Glad they are great parents though and just take what I can send them, when I can send them.

Anyhoo, it's still running.