cross over steering oppitions

[Indy4x4Fab]

ok now i know there r to different styles of cross over steer. i have a 1979 k20 frame that i have put a 1988 crew cab on top of as well as i put the matching 6.2 na in the 79 frame(the 79 frame was in much better shap over all). i currently have a gm 10 bolt under the front end but next year i plan to put a dana 60 under it. so i really dont want to replace the 10 bolt nuckles with d44 raised passenger nuckle. i have heard roomers of a jeep style cross over steering but cant fine any part numbers or pichures of this setup. anther snag is that the 1979 4x4 steering box has different threads then the 88 2wd box i have. so i would like to use the matching two wheel steering box if posible so i dont have any custum hoses ether. any help her guys? by the way im running a 6'' rough county lift up front.

 

[Hogback Fabrication]

Assuming the pump and steering column are from the '88, you need an '80-87 2WD box.

As for running crossover to the tie rod, don't bother. Just wait until you go to crossover.

 

[Indy4x4Fab]

yes the pump and steering column are from the '88 and it was a U.S. AIR FORCE 1 ton single rear wheel crew cab 2wd, thats where basicly i have just changed cabs and plus a little modifing on the body mounts, and engines. so the only thing thats left 79 is the axles, frame, a th400 freshly rebuilt for the 6.2, the np203, and the 79 front clip.

the main problem is that the 1979 box is a different thread pitch then the 88 box. and just because i get the d60 next year doesnt mean it wont need to be over hauled before it goes under there and i really dont want to wait 2 more years to drive my truck.

and the U.S. AIR FORCE part came from car fax report.

 

[Hogback Fabrication]

The '88 box uses o-ring, the 79 should use flare fittings, the lines/threads/etc are different. You need an '80-87 2WD box.

You can't drive the truck without crossover? Running the draglink to the tie rod isn't better than stock steering, I'd put the stock steering on with a raised steering arm and drive it.

 

[Indy4x4Fab]

yes all u say is true. I KNOW THIS ALREADY. i dont care if the half a$$ cross over jeep style steering is the same stringth as stock steering. i just need the part nubers to put the dang thing to gether the way i want it put to gether.

 

[NorCal_Chris]

Assuming the pump and steering column are from the '88, you need an '80-87 2WD box.

As for running crossover to the tie rod, don't bother. Just wait until you go to crossover.

I disagree.


my inverted t steering jeep whatever is WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
better than stock. is it ideal? no.

is it worth 500 for xover on a 44/10b if a 60 is in the near future? No.

Even before i had 52's up front my stock setup severely limited me. There were a few spots i was unable to go through because my wheels wouldnt turn.


Now i wouldnt pay for a tierod x over setup... but if you can fab you can get one setup for under 100.


look at the last few pages on my build thread for part numbers for my setup

 

[Hogback Fabrication]

yes all u say is true. I KNOW THIS ALREADY. i dont care if the half a$$ cross over jeep style steering is the same stringth as stock steering. i just need the part nubers to put the dang thing to gether the way i want it put to gether.

Apologies, didn't mean to offend.

Unfortunately I don't know of anyone that sells a kit like that.

 

[Indy4x4Fab]

im sorry to been a heel of a last couple days and my tempers on a short fuse. so no harm no fowl.

 

[ryoken]

he tried to help.. you jumped in his face for no reason....

 

[CherryK5]

he tried to help.. you jumped in his face for no reason....

I have to agree its frustrating when you get a bunch of "it wont work" and "it isnt any better" when jeep has been using it for a longggggg time. So it must work at least well enough that its worth a shot. especially considering the coin you save. You'll be out some time and a little money.

 

[owenst7]

Just make a strong tie rod, weld tabs to it like we all do for our hydro assist, and run a heim there at the end of the draglink.

Good luck getting a drag link to clear the leaf spring when you mount it near the vertical center of the knuckle. Just don't end up on scary steering.

 

[dirtygoat]

Have any of you checked out the hydro assist on older ford trucks???

My neighbor has one in his yard and I stared at it for a bit when I built my Blazer... I ended up going full hydro, but the steering on that ford had my wheels turning...

 

[CherryK5]

Have any of you checked out the hydro assist on older ford trucks???

My neighbor has one in his yard and I stared at it for a bit when I built my Blazer... I ended up going full hydro, but the steering on that ford had my wheels turning...

Why?

 

[Hogback Fabrication]

I have to agree its frustrating when you get a bunch of "it wont work" and "it isnt any better" when jeep has been using it for a longggggg time. So it must work at least well enough that its worth a shot. especially considering the coin you save. You'll be out some time and a little money.

The stock Jeep/Ford style steering is far from good, those guys upgrade to steering off of the top of the knuckle too. GM and Dodge used the push/pull steering for decades (Ford did too for a while), it works just fine on a stock truck or on a truck that doesn't get wheeled hard or one that doesn't have lots of lift.

When you run a draglink from the pitman arm to the tie rod, the draglink has to be short to clear the passenger side spring (Jeeps either used the leaf springs under the axle or links/coils and Ford used a super wide spring pad spacing or link/coils to avoid this). Shorter draglink = still more affected by suspensions travel.

If the draglink isn't short, it has to be bent at extreme angles. This is where the scary steering stuff that everyone talks about comes in, put any serious pressure on it (i.e. really use it in a trail situation) and that draglink will collapse.

Last, and definitely not least important, is that running a draglink from the pitman arm to the tie rod means a much more steep angle on the draglink. That equals bump steer and poor street manners. The stock Ford/Jeep linkage is fairly flat on a stock truck, lift them and they have the same downfalls that a Chevy push/pull steering system does.


There is more to it than length of draglink, angle etc because it also depends on what arc the suspension travels in, but that's the gist of it.

 

[CherryK5]

Well in theory the draglink to the tie rod setup will be less affected by flex than the stock push/pull setup since you have effectively doubled its length. So even though it isn't ideal, its an improvement

 

[CherryK5]

Triangulate the draglink, it'll be fine

Or some gussets, who knows.

 

[Hogback Fabrication]

Well in theory the draglink to the tie rod setup will be less affected by flex than the stock push/pull setup since you have effectively doubled its length. So even though it isn't ideal, its an improvement

It's longer and hence will, yes, be less affected by suspension travel as far as steering travel goes.

The downfalls are tons of bumpsteer, potential single shear connection issues and if it zig zags under the spring it's begging to fold over. Not sure if you're joking about gussets, but put any real stress on a steeply bent draglink can make it bend/fail pretty easily. Steep is relative but on a dralink it isn't too much.

 

[Indy4x4Fab]

well after spending the night looking thew a girl friends quadratec catalog, i have come to see and find out that trying to use a jeep style steering may not work. but on the reverse side of it it looks like i might be able to make a very cheep simple cross over steering for around 250 using my stock gm10b tie rod ends and lower drag link. if i revers the poision of the two tie rod ends (put passenger side on drivers side and vise versa) that puts my drives side tie rod in just the right spot, because it has a tapered hole in it for the steering stabilizer. then i can grab a set of dodge tie rod ends and lower drag link. put a couple gentle 45* or there about bends in it and it should all bolt to gether. the tie rod ends for a 1986 dodge ram charger are small enough that with a small amount of tapered reaming, the dodge tie rod end would bolt right in to the the steering stabilizer hole in the hole. now i figure sense the dodge tie rod ends so much smaller i may end up eating a couple on the trail i figure at 16 dollars a tie rod end its cheep enough that i could probly carry a couple extras. but knowing for a fact that my wife has wheeled her truck a couple times and the stock tie rod ends haven't loosened up any yet sense i replaced them three years ago, i'm thinking that i may have a fighting chance here to make a very in enxspensive cross over steering. going to have to wait a couple weeks to get all the parts gathered up to try this but i think it should work. will post pichures of my findings as i try this.

 

[NorCal_Chris]

did you even go to my build thread and look?

 

[NorCal_Chris]

spoon inc.

so here is the parts list.

Stock 80s blazer tie rod with both ends on it.
eg.
ES2233LM

and EX2234R

you take the ES2233LM and have the hole that used to be for the steering stabilizer reamed for a TRE.

then you need a lh thread tie rod end to replace it since this will be your new draglink.
EX2234L works for this or you could use a drag link end.

Now for a pittman arm i got one off of a xj and had it reamed for a TRE since the stock hole is too small. The xj arm is simular to superlift 1104. and has 4 flats so it can be indexed for push pull or x over setups.

I took my stock 80s tierod to the shop and bent it up. One right after the threads on the pittman arm side, then 18inches down back to parallell.


Overall cost.
all junkyard finds
Pittman arm $5
2wd box $10
stock 80s tierod with both Tie rod ends $10
cost for WFO to ream pittman and EX2234L TRE $30
Total= $55 bucks

The stock 80s tierod had to be shortened i think around 6 inches. Beveled both sides on the cut and used a peice of 4inch long 3/4 solid in the center of it then burned it in.