CK5
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Crossover for idiots
- Thread starter CyberSniper
- Start date
Hossbaby50
3/4 ton status
I don't really like hysteer because I find it kind of an answer for a question that wasn't asked. Its cool for sure but really necessary? I am probably going to start a huge debate with this but oh well. My thoughts are build a BEEF tierod and run lowsteer is fine. It keeps some stress where is was designed to be put. People argue that hysteer keeps you from bashing the tierod on rocks. The alternative to that is bashing you axle on said rocks. /forums/images/graemlins/dunno.gif I would personally rather bash on something that is replacable instead of something that isn't.
I run a 3/8" tierod on my truck. Running the 1/2 ton front I have been told by most that I will brake the knuckles if I actually manage to bend that tierod. I find a bent tierod and broken knuckles to be a better alternative to a bent axle tube. I carry spare knuckles so I can drive home still if I did manage to bust a knuckle up. On a D60 where bending a tube is alot less likely then you might not be able to back up that reasoning. You can back up the reasoning that D60's with hysteer are prone to breaking the knuckles from stress though. Low Steer wins again in my book unless you can afford Dedenbear's.
As for hysteer on a 1/2 ton. I wouldn't worry about it unless you are running hydro assist. 2 local guys here in AZ that I know of run hysteer on 1/2 ton's with 35's. No problems. They wheel the piss out of there trucks in the rocks too. TheRobZilla runs 35's and hysteer. He doesn't baby anything either. His truck is probably double the 3000lb mark you are shooting for too.
Harley
I run a 3/8" tierod on my truck. Running the 1/2 ton front I have been told by most that I will brake the knuckles if I actually manage to bend that tierod. I find a bent tierod and broken knuckles to be a better alternative to a bent axle tube. I carry spare knuckles so I can drive home still if I did manage to bust a knuckle up. On a D60 where bending a tube is alot less likely then you might not be able to back up that reasoning. You can back up the reasoning that D60's with hysteer are prone to breaking the knuckles from stress though. Low Steer wins again in my book unless you can afford Dedenbear's.
As for hysteer on a 1/2 ton. I wouldn't worry about it unless you are running hydro assist. 2 local guys here in AZ that I know of run hysteer on 1/2 ton's with 35's. No problems. They wheel the piss out of there trucks in the rocks too. TheRobZilla runs 35's and hysteer. He doesn't baby anything either. His truck is probably double the 3000lb mark you are shooting for too.
Harley
az-k5
1/2 ton status
x-over with hi-steer cerainly all of the stress on a single pivot point. It will wear out ball joints faster than you can believe. If you are not toasting the ball joints than you are probably not wheeling hard enough to really need hi-steer. A standard mount rock rod will work fine as long as you don't just drive by brail. I have caught my rod on a few rocks but it only scratched it. If it wasn't there to warn me I would have dead stopped myself on the axle tube. Look at the newer breed of trail buggies. They have gone back to low steer due to increasing upper pivot failure.
I'm trying to be realistic. The vehicle will weigh around 3,000lbs by my guessing (it only weighed 4080 according to title) and it'll gain a truck cab and narrowed front. The bed will be small and reduced to angle iron and either wood or "expanded metal" grating. I think I can hit the 3,000lb mark. I can get to 3700lbs on a longbox truck so the K5 fully loaded should be down to 3,000lbs without me in it. It should be even easier to hit if I can scrap the TH350/NP203 for a 700R4/NP208.
There will be no hydro assist.
Toyota parts are more girly than Chevy parts and they survive 38s.
I am not doing rockcrawling. I don't plan on going bigger than 38" rubber.
Keep in mind that most of you guys are steering a rig that weighs what mine will with a Jeep strapped on its back. Most of you guys are trying to move around in the rocks in the 5,000lb+ neighborhood. Remember, the front of the truck is actually going to be lighter than stock. It'll gain a narrowed front, batteries moved to bed, and no winch in the front.
The "weak" link on stock 10 bolt steering seems to be the stock rod location on the passenger knuckle. Flat tops have all that beef in there so I suspect putting the tie rod up high won't hurt anything there as far as strength. Then I don't think the crossover part is any harder on the passenger knuckle than a stock driver knuckle with push-pull sees.
Now we're to balljoints. The driver's side upper balljoint already gets tortured by push-pull steering and with a raised steering arm it's even worse. Now we're essentially moving it to the passenger knuckle. Then there is the histeer part that also loads the top balljoint more but only in the essence that both balljoints are now getting tortured instead of one.
I bent my stock tie rod (80s tube type) yesterday towards the passenger side of the differential. Bent it right into my differential cover. I don't know how a "rock rod" would survive that unless it's one of those fancy-pants rods that spring back into shape. I didn't do it on a rock either. I did it on a stump. I didn't even hit it hard enough to feel like I hit something. I thought I just got stuck on my front differential. I was idling in the mud getting off the trail so a Toyota could get by. I've never seen a 3/8" thick axle tube get bent or dented that didn't see a VERY hard impact.
Since with your guys' help I now know I can buy thread inserts and then can weld up my own links that's what I'll be doing. I don't know how that can be any more "beefy" than stock since it's still DOM mild steel. Probably still bend just like my stock one did.
Got any pictures of bent/broken/ruined histeer/crossover stuff on a light vehicle?
There will be no hydro assist.
Toyota parts are more girly than Chevy parts and they survive 38s.
I am not doing rockcrawling. I don't plan on going bigger than 38" rubber.
Keep in mind that most of you guys are steering a rig that weighs what mine will with a Jeep strapped on its back. Most of you guys are trying to move around in the rocks in the 5,000lb+ neighborhood. Remember, the front of the truck is actually going to be lighter than stock. It'll gain a narrowed front, batteries moved to bed, and no winch in the front.
The "weak" link on stock 10 bolt steering seems to be the stock rod location on the passenger knuckle. Flat tops have all that beef in there so I suspect putting the tie rod up high won't hurt anything there as far as strength. Then I don't think the crossover part is any harder on the passenger knuckle than a stock driver knuckle with push-pull sees.
Now we're to balljoints. The driver's side upper balljoint already gets tortured by push-pull steering and with a raised steering arm it's even worse. Now we're essentially moving it to the passenger knuckle. Then there is the histeer part that also loads the top balljoint more but only in the essence that both balljoints are now getting tortured instead of one.
I bent my stock tie rod (80s tube type) yesterday towards the passenger side of the differential. Bent it right into my differential cover. I don't know how a "rock rod" would survive that unless it's one of those fancy-pants rods that spring back into shape. I didn't do it on a rock either. I did it on a stump. I didn't even hit it hard enough to feel like I hit something. I thought I just got stuck on my front differential. I was idling in the mud getting off the trail so a Toyota could get by. I've never seen a 3/8" thick axle tube get bent or dented that didn't see a VERY hard impact.
Since with your guys' help I now know I can buy thread inserts and then can weld up my own links that's what I'll be doing. I don't know how that can be any more "beefy" than stock since it's still DOM mild steel. Probably still bend just like my stock one did.
Got any pictures of bent/broken/ruined histeer/crossover stuff on a light vehicle?
55Willy
3/4 ton status
I have $250 into my histeer on my D44.
thats a 2wd box, ford arm, all 4 tre's, shackerbilt arms and stud kit and then one sky drag link and one shane74 tie rod. I also have a muddytazz prepped knuckle.
I'm having sky drill and taper one more hole into my arm to switch the tie rod and drag link so that they don't hit.
-Jeremy
thats a 2wd box, ford arm, all 4 tre's, shackerbilt arms and stud kit and then one sky drag link and one shane74 tie rod. I also have a muddytazz prepped knuckle.
I'm having sky drill and taper one more hole into my arm to switch the tie rod and drag link so that they don't hit.
-Jeremy
So I take it that they hit when used with 52" springs? Is your draglink the straight variety?
Which TREs are you using?
GM's ES2234R and ES2233L (has hole in it for steering damper) or Dodge's ES2010L which is shorter and doesn't have the hole?
Which TREs are you using?
GM's ES2234R and ES2233L (has hole in it for steering damper) or Dodge's ES2010L which is shorter and doesn't have the hole?
55Willy
3/4 ton status
with the 57" up front I'm 5" forward.
Mines also gonna be so FUBAR'd that I have to use a stock ford arm, non dropped arm and probably have to knotch the frame to clear the nut cuase with a dropped arm and flexxed it would hit the springs. /forums/images/graemlins/yikes.gif /forums/images/graemlins/doah.gif
Mine will be a bent draglink. the sky-link runs the big 1" ends(ford and gm) and my shane-rod is the 7/8" (2234R/2010L).
Mines also gonna be so FUBAR'd that I have to use a stock ford arm, non dropped arm and probably have to knotch the frame to clear the nut cuase with a dropped arm and flexxed it would hit the springs. /forums/images/graemlins/yikes.gif /forums/images/graemlins/doah.gif
Mine will be a bent draglink. the sky-link runs the big 1" ends(ford and gm) and my shane-rod is the 7/8" (2234R/2010L).
OK, what are you using on the other end of the 1"-18 rod?
Do they make a short left-hand thread to match up with a ES2011R?
Hopefully then if I use 52" springs I shouldn't have the binding problem you've got, right?
Do they make a short left-hand thread to match up with a ES2011R?
Hopefully then if I use 52" springs I shouldn't have the binding problem you've got, right?
55Willy
3/4 ton status
I'm not sure on the ends, I got it 2nd hand when Sky made Jeff the wrong one so I bought it from Jeff to cut to my length.
I think sandman with his 52's is sitting 3" or so forward and he couldn't run histeer.
I think sandman with his 52's is sitting 3" or so forward and he couldn't run histeer.
Using LHT inserts and TRE's only makes sense if the tie rod is straight. If it has bends, you have to disconnect one side anyway, so why not make it all RHT? Maybe it goes without saying, but I thought I'd mention it just in case.
