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Dad's 'Mad, The no longer hibernating 1957 Nomad.

Bent77 said:
Couple things:

Double check your spline count in the TKX. Mine is 26

Then you’ll have to do some checking. The counter shaft size is a give away

www.motortrend.com

Guide to Muncie M20, M21, and M22 Four-Speed Transmissions

The Muncie Miracle: Getting to know Chevy's most legendary four-speed transmission.
www.motortrend.com www.motortrend.com

Any bets? I’d guess a 20
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I’d guess a m20 also. I’ll have to crawl under the car and check it. Just going off of memory from what Dad told me the hardtop had a 2.20 close ratio box and the Nomad didn’t have the 2.20 low gear.

I need to confirm a couple of variables too while I’m at it. One I know the tach is off for one thing. I have not validated the speedo accuracy. Working the numbers as I have them may be skewing my results for fuel economy as well as rpm at cruise speed.

I know I’m off 200-300 rpm at idle. But what I don’t know if the error grows with rpm or it’s just off by that flat 200-300 Rpm at any point on the scale. Reason I bring this up is I re-ran my numbers through the gear calculator. Here’s what I got. :
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So at 3000 rpm you the car should be going 66mph. Which isn’t great but it’s a whole lot more doable than what I think I’ve been seeing on the tach at that speed. That is depending on I’m right on the rear axle ratio and the the speedo is accurate.

I don’t remember dad ever complaining that the speedometer was off at all. And knowing his ocd level if it was off he would have made it right. Either by changing the driven gear on the trans or putting one of those ratio adapters inline on the speedo cable. He was a stickler for accuracy.

What I do remember him telling me was despite the different transmissions and gear ratios in both 57’s the final ratio is first gear was surprisingly close. So the hardtop has 5.38 in the axle x 2.20 low gear for a total of 11.836:1. The nomad if it does have 3.55 in the axle with a 2.56 low gear would be 9.088:1 which is still fairly steep in its own right. But the Nomad did better on the highway with the lower numerical gear set obviously. So I’m reasonably confident it’s a 2.56 wide ratio box with 3.55 gears. 3.55 would have been the standard ratio for a 283/3-speed manual that the Nomad originally came with.

I’ll have to jack the car up and spin the wheel while I count driveshaft rotations. While I’m there I can look at the trans to ID it.

Next time I take it out I’ll validate the speedo with gps.
 
I had an m21 in my firebird, and that first gear will be pretty limp w/ a 3.08 and a 327, not known for low end. If you have a real shot at getting GV on there I'd give that a serious look. I have heard that there's an Achilles heel on them - may not be a problem on a lighter car, but on trucks, letting off where the drive torque is working backwards through them is tough on them. Ask GV about that.
 
JoshHefnerX said:
I had an m21 in my firebird, and that first gear will be pretty limp w/ a 3.08 and a 327, not known for low end. If you have a real shot at getting GV on there I'd give that a serious look. I have heard that there's an Achilles heel on them - may not be a problem on a lighter car, but on trucks, letting off where the drive torque is working backwards through them is tough on them. Ask GV about that.
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Yeah I've run the numbers on the 3.08 gearing. I will say the 327 is pretty ballsy. Sure it won't accelerate the same with 3.08's but I remind myself it's not a race car.

I need to validate the gears first and confirm what ratio it is. The disc brake upgrade will be the main upgrade this winter as the car needs to stop better for sure. Driving it faster without disc's is probably gonna end badly.

Ideally, the GV is the main fix, but if the car needs to go on a big road trip before it's done, the 3.08 pumpkin will get tossed in.
 
Got the car out for a show today. GPS confirmed the Speedo is exactly 5 mph fast. Though I think the gearing may be deeper than I thought as the math don’t work out now with 3.55’s and the actual speed. That’s working with the assumption the tach is 300 rpm fast anywhere on the scale. I still need to validate the gear ratio and the tach error if I want to be sure.
 
JoshHefnerX said:
I had an m21 in my firebird, and that first gear will be pretty limp w/ a 3.08 and a 327, not known for low end. If you have a real shot at getting GV on there I'd give that a serious look. I have heard that there's an Achilles heel on them - may not be a problem on a lighter car, but on trucks, letting off where the drive torque is working backwards through them is tough on them. Ask GV about that.
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I talked with a man who had one in his crewcab K30 with a big block, SM465 and 205. He found out about the shortened life span of his GV unit because he used it in OD and 3rd going down steep grades while towing his large camper. I believe that it wasn't expensive to send it in for a rebuild, BUT that was probably 15 years ago.
In a Nomad, I wouldn't be worried, personally.
 
Honestly if I put the GV unit in I’m it sure how often I’d be splitting gears with it. I’d probably just engage it in fourth as a true OD and shut it off when I slow down or go to downshift.

The fact that GV units are a popular choice to the drag and drive crowd also lets me know the meager 300+ hp 327 generates is not going to break one any time soon.

I took the car to a great show yesterday and did some of my homework going over and coming back. GPS confirmed the Speedo is off by exactly 5mph fast everywhere. So there’s a big error factor to all my mileage and tach readings.

Next up was validating the error with the tach. Hooking the dwell meter back up when I got home proved the error increases with rpm. If the meter is holding at 1000, the tach is showing 1400. 1500 on the meter has the tach showing 2100. 2000 on the meter is 2700 on the tach. My meter only goes up to 2000 rpm but is saw enough based on those data points.

Knowing the tach is off, I went to validate the gear ratio. Knowing that now that I know true speed and accurate ratio I could solve for the rpm at speed without the tach. So the rear got jacked up and supported. Clicked the shifter out of gear and started counting. I spun the left rear tire watching if the other spun in the same direction, opposite or not at all. Knowing if it spun the same direction it likely had a posi. I don’t remember it having one but easy to figure out. When spun the right tire didn’t move. This is the confusing part as one revolution of the tire barely 1 1/2 turns on the yoke. I realized being open and not spinning both tires in the same direction the carrier is being driven by the side gears and it would take two full tire revolutions to get the carrier to make one full turn.

Two full tire revolutions showed just over 3 1/2 turns at the yoke. Which confirms my suspicion that it’s a 3.55:1 gear set. The math puts 3000 rpm in forth at 66 mph. 2500 rpm is 55mph. Which is a damn sight better than what the tach is showing when I’m at 55mph. At that speed it’s displaying 3400rpm. So it’s off by a lot! The tach isn’t going away but I may try some different batteries that are closer to the original 1.35v per cell to bring it back or like others suggested set up a small voltage regulator to feed it a true 2.70v off of the cars 12v system.

But the main point of the exercise was to get an accurate take on speed vs rpm which will drive some choices down the road. The rpm at 55 is livable, slow ground speed but livable. 3000 at 65 is a little buzzy but damn sight better than the 3900 the tach is. Showing at that actual speed.

At least I’ve eliminated the variables and have some accurate numbers to work with for now.
 
Speedo off by exactly +5 everywhere is odd, and not at all linear with ratio changes. Like the needle got moved

How far off is the odometer?
 
Bent77 said:
Speedo off by exactly +5 everywhere is odd, and not at all linear with ratio changes. Like the needle got moved

How far off is the odometer?
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Honestly didn’t watch the odometer. But I think the tires are a touch shorter than 70’s tires I took off.
 
centexk5 said:
Is it a gear driven speedo? Maybe the wrong gear on it.
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Yeah, they lacked vss in 57. Just messing with you. I’m certain knowing the level of ocd my dad had on things being accurate he would have that dialed in to the point it was dead nuts on at 60. The old tires I pulled off were GR78/14. Most conversion charts online cross that to a modern 225/70r14 or a 215/75r14. I looked to see what the old tire size worked out to in diameter and I can’t find a chart. But looking at Coker they sell a G78-14 and it has a listed diameter of 27.10”. The 225/70r14 works out to 26.40”. So if my thoughts are right and the old tire were indeed over 1/2” taller that would be a reason the Speedo is fast.
 
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ZooMad75 said:
Well, the Nomad just keeps racking up miles. A couple more shows, a little further from home. Both of which have been with @Capt Ron with his '33. I met up with him at his place and cruise over together. We did manage have a little impromptu race at a light on west Colfax. Knowing the '33 is capable of a 12 sec slip at Bandimere I realized I had Zero chance in beating him, but what the hell right? I snapped the throttle to get the 327 to bark and get his attention at the light. He looked over at me and smirked. The green lights up and clutch pedals released in both cars. I'd say the Nomad hung with him in first, but that LS3 just pulls! He granny shifted second and I stayed in it, catching him a little and then he picked it up hard again and was gone in a flash. That car pulls. I caught him a little ways up after he got out of it.

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I didn't take any pics at that show, just hung out with Ron, his brother and youngest son. Good times.

Yesterday would be the furthest it's driven. Met up with Ron at his place to cruise together. The show was up in Northglenn. Going by way of Ron's place would keep the Nomad off of the freeway for a good chunk of the run.
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We did have to run some highway to get there though. It was a pretty morning. The smoke from CA makes for amazing sunrises.
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It was a good size show. A little ford biased as it was at a Ford dealer, but there was still some variety. I think I've earned my New Balance shoes from all the car shows I've attended. Its funny you start seeing a lot of the same cars out to these larger ones.

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I stopped and added fuel before getting to Ron's house. Fuel economy between two prior tanks is downright awful. Either I'm driving like an idiot (probable), gearing is too aggressive or both. I'm seeing single digit numbers for MPG. Like on the highway section yesterday trying to catch Ron at 70 mph the tach was pushing 3600 rpm. I just don't get how my Dad could swing 17mpg out of this car back in the day. Yes, the speed limit was down to 55mph. Plus my Dad was a pretty conservative driver. I just need to slow down and keep my size 15 clod hopper in check and see if I can squeeze some better mileage out of it. It's pretty sad my 7,000 pound house on wheels gets way better mileage with so much more displacement, bigger tire and deeper gearing. OD is a big factor on the Blazer which the Nomad lacks.

So I've got a couple of options to make the car more highway capable. One., I've got a 3.08 pumpkin I can drop in the rear end pretty quickly and drop that down a lot from the 3.55's that are in there. Two, gear vendors OD. Bill has one that Larry and I pulled from a suburban for cheap at a junkyard. Before anybody dismisses this option I do not want to switch out the Muncie for a newer 5 speed. I don't want to loose the hurst shifted 4-speed as it is soo good as is besides the highway rpm.

The Gear vendors lets me keep the muncie and the 3.55's out back. Gear Vendors has adapters for Muncie's. All I need to do is buy the adapter, coupler and wiring. I've researched it and the gear vendors fits on '57's with muncies with no need to modify the floor pan to make it fit. I need to do a little more research.
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I vote gv
 
Local car so at the local Eagles lodge.

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Ran in to my Dad’s ‘57 buddy.
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There is a bucket load of optional and accessory items.
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Some other tri-fives. 2dr handyman 210 with Bel Air trim
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Another handyman.
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This Nomad is another member of the Mile High Nomad club. This car used to have a 302 gmc 6 cylinder. It was changed out for a 502 crate and TREMEC 5-speed in the 2000’s. The member that built it passed, his wife still owns it. Though she does not drive it. I think her granddaughter takes it out for her.
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Pretty cool t-bucket with a mercruiser 4 banger (aka Nova 4 cyl)


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Cool ‘55 with a 409 engine.
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So my Dad’s buddy with the ‘57 invited me to a hang out spot he and a few other guys hit up on Sunday at a local Dariy Queen. Just a handful of cars with the old farts with their chairs circled up to shoot the crap.


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Yes I told him his right stop lamp was out. I think it’s a loose ground as the stop lamp works when he has the left blinker on.
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I always like when the fins line up.
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Pretty good day goofing off in the Nomad. I did fill it up on the way home and after adjusting for the mileage error, I’m in the 13’s now for mpg.
 
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Rob, I just learned there was a 57 available without the big split trim on the quarters? A buddy swears not all 57’s came with that trim panel on them.
A base model or what is that?
 
76zimmer said:
Rob, I just learned there was a 57 available without the big split trim on the quarters? A buddy swears not all 57’s came with that trim panel on them.
A base model or what is that?
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I thought that was the Belair.
The others were plain Jane.
I know very little about this year so take my words with a grain of salt
 
76zimmer said:
:haha:Rob, I just learned there was a 57 available without the big split trim on the quarters? A buddy swears not all 57’s came with that trim panel on them.
A base model or what is that?
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So in ‘57 as well as the 55’s and 56’s there were three trim levels. 150 series, base. 210 series mid level and then the Bel Air which was top of the line. 150’s have trim that is more like a ‘55 in that it’s only on the quarter and door area. 210’s match the Bel Air without the aluminum insert in the corner for the main distinction. There are other details that separate a Bel Air from the others. For the V-8 cars, all got the large V’s on the hood and trunk (or gate on a nomad/wagon) however only the Bel Air cars had them anodized in gold. Same for the Chevrolet script on the hood and trunk or gate along with the fake louvers on the front fenders and the grille mesh. 210 and 150 cars have silver grilles and trim. One other giveaway is the trim capping the top of the tail fins. Bel air cars have much longer trim capping the fin, including wagons. The 210/150 have a short fin cap that is 12” long.

On sedans there is additional trim that surrounds the windows on Bel Air and 210’s that 150 sedans lack as well. Probably some of the rarest ‘57 models are the 210 hardtops. Both in 2dr and 4dr variants. They follow all the same trim as the regular 210’s but the belt line moulding at the top of the doors is thinner than the Bel Air version. Add to that many 210 hard tops got converted to Bel Air status with the swapping of gold trim and inserts on the outside. But most don’t go as far as the top caps and belt line moldings.

The other major differences is the interior. They each had their own fabrics and patterns as well as trim/no trim on the dash.

If anybody has watched Mike Finnegan’s YouTube channel may remember the yard of 57’s in Texas they found and Newbern bought the 2dr hard top. It had Bel Air inserts but watch closely and you’ll see the skinny belt line molding on the doors.

So the grey/silver 2 dr wagon in my previous post is an obvious fake as the only 2dr wagon in the Bel Air series was the Nomad. The other 2dr wagons on the 150/210 lineups are sedan/post style. They did do a Bel Air 4 door wagon with the shared sedan style doors.

One of the rarest wagons though is the sedan delivery built with windows instead of panels. Often called “window deliveries” they share all of the sedan delivery characteristics with a single one piece lift gate unlike the regular handyman and 4dr wagons two piece lift glass and tailgate. They also had the bucket seats and unlike the 2dr handyman wagons they lacked a rear seat and the middle windows did not open. These special deliveries were usually ordered by the government and even some of them had a panel on the left and windows on the right. In my lifetime I’ve only ever come across one. Tried to buy it and the yard that had it knew they had a rare one and said it wasn’t for sale.

This concludes my 50000 foot level of ‘57 trim levels.
 
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