dallas auto show...gm still makes me sad sometimes

[fireplug]

I disagree, most people don't know what Moab even is. Much less interested in actually driving anything off more than a gravel driveway. The few people that would be half interested in wheeling.... are just looky-loos. Meaning, they may talk about "I wonder what it could do offroad" but never think about it again nor ever actually hit a trail of some sort.



Once again, I disagree. I'm not into the 4wheeling thing much, but am I HUGE snowmobiler. We get hassled just as bad, if not worse than 4 wheelers when it comes to the greenies and closing down wilderness for two reasons.

1. Most snowmobiles are 2 stroke and this just pisses off the greenies.

2. When you talk about wilderness and back country.... no one can get to where we go on snowmobiles. No 4wheeler, dirt bike, or 4x4 can get even close to the places sleds can reach in the snow months. Only a pro hiker or helicopter could get to some of these places during the summer.
This really pisses off the greenies, regardless to the fact that our tracks melt away with the spring warmth and leave an untouched summer wilderness.....

My point is it's only gotten bad for us in the last 10 years, as snowmobiling popularity has multiplied like rabbits. The more people doing something, the more noticeable and the more of an uprise against what said people are doing because there are more people making an impact.

I say keep as many people out of the sport as you can anyway. What the greenies don't know doesn't hurt them.

Same with mountain biking. If everybody on the trail had to take a course on responsible, low impact, wheeling, then maybe. Until then, the more traffic on the trail, the more idiots. One idiot outshines twenty responsible trail users.

 

[stoney126]

and 20-30k isnt even close to top of the line.. many of the newer trucks push mid to high 50's fully optioned

Thats true, i bought my 04 used and it was 24000.

 

[fireplug]

also, i know most people don't drive from the lot to moab, but my k5 was brand new once. where are people going to get good old 4x4s in 10 or 20 years if nobody made any? don't say jeep. not to be pessimistic, but 40-50 years is a lot to ask of a 4x4 or any vehicle. mine is 25 years old, and i have too much sense to expect another 25 from it with real use.

I don't know about that, there are endless sources for sheet metal, the 350 is likely the most venerable and still mass produced motor, the sheer numbers produced equate to a timeless survivability. I restored my 40 plus year old VW and had every part available including NOS parts.

Truly, with the way things are going I think we are driving THE (offroad) classics of the future. Few earlier vehicles had the combination of capability and everyday usability, and few if any (as this thread mentions) of the more recent vehicles have the capability or cost effectiveness, or ease of maintenance that ours have. The biggest threat to our rigs is the future fuel prices!

 

[rjfguitar]

so because gm isnt making what people want is leading them to possibly overtaking f150 this year? they already sell more full size pickups(counting platform) but ford has a better selling name.. i have to disagree. gm is making what people want. i bet you more than 50% of people who buy dodges and fords dont even know the difference between sfa and ifs

i hope gm never hires any designers from dodge...every new model that comes out keeps getting uglier and uglier

Yep, completely agree.

I can't figure out why this is so hard for some guys to figure out. 99% of the population are NOT gear heads that actually cares what is underneith the truck. Just because you want an SFA, or crawl underneith the truck that is a potential purchase to see what model transfer case it has, doesn't mean that ANY of the next 100 guys on the lot will do the same.

As stated above, few people even know the difference between SFA or IFS, and even less care. If it rides nice and handles well it will sell well to 99% of the consumers that are more interested in cup holders than suspension design.

I can see that, a few others can, but some guys just can't see past that if they are interested in drivetrain/suspension/offroading, than the next guy likely does too.....

This all comes up in every thread about late model GM stuff, continually people have a frustrated attitude and can't figure out why GM won't bring back SFA's and why their products just get more and more road friendly.

I can tell you why..... because you are .5% of the population that actually wants to go 4 wheeling and wants all that stuff, and GM couldn't give a rip about you because you are a tiny spec on the market place. 99.5% of the consumers do NOT have the mentality of CK5, Pirate, etc...

 

[roadnotca]

We're Derds!

 

[mrdrinksalil]

My $0.02.....

For the american auto market these days it is ONLY about market share and profit... THATS IT. GM holds strong in the truck market filling the void for trucks that ride nice on the road and have slightly more refined interiors. Period. They sell to a different customer than us ck5ers. The american auto makers are suffereing HUGE losses compaired to 30 years ago. Michigan (detroit) is the fastest declining state in poplulation in the country due to the downsizing.

The money involved in developing a NEW model is huge as is a large risk if trying to get into a new market. Jeep (wrangler) has the offroad market wrapped around its finger. GM did a good job with the H3 to break into that market, but who knows if they will push harder. Its all a game of numbers... I work for a MAJOR tractor corporation and it works the same for us... $$$$

 

[SkysTheLimit]

You guys are taking my statements the wrong way. I completely agree that 1 out of 1000 guys will actually look under the truck and now what they're looking at / for. What I'm saying is that GMs recent offerings lack substance. They're bland have lower drivetrain ratings and that's what people are looking at. Even if someone doesn't know or care about IFS vs SFA, they do notice and care (if even for braggin rights) about the difference between 280hp and 380hp. They also notice that the new GMs are monkey ass ugly.

I've never liked Dodge and will never own another daimler chrysler product but I will be the first to admit that the dodge vehicles as a whole are some of the sharpest cars on the road.

 

[K5Greek]

You guys are taking my statements the wrong way. I completely agree that 1 out of 1000 guys will actually look under the truck and now what they're looking at / for. What I'm saying is that GMs recent offerings lack substance. They're bland have lower drivetrain ratings and that's what people are looking at. Even if someone doesn't know or care about IFS vs SFA, they do notice and care (if even for braggin rights) about the difference between 280hp and 380hp. They also notice that the new GMs are monkey ass ugly.

I've never liked Dodge and will never own another daimler chrysler product but I will be the first to admit that the dodge vehicles as a whole are some of the sharpest cars on the road.

looks are subjective..as for engines.. i think gm could use a power boost but htey arnt horrible. gm (again) is pleasing its customers by offering the most fuel efficient trucks..

 

[wazzabie]

The last real GM trucks were in 91. These where the 1 tons. The IFS till 1998 are a good 2nd place. Any thing since then just isn't a truck any more. just my 2 cents Also 60's trucks are cool but the 70's are the best of the bunch for work trucks.

 

[vortec]

One idiot outshines twenty responsible trail users

i agree 100%. i know that in business, the rule is that a satisfied client tells 1 person, but an unsatisfied one tells 10. an offroad example is my friend's offroad stories. he likes to tell two stories about my k5; the story of me busting my passenger side mirror on a tree. dang jeep trail was so tight that his wrangler was a snug fit. nobody heres about him winching up or backing out of hillclimbs that i just made.

99.5% of the consumers do NOT have the mentality of CK5, Pirate, etc...

i think we can all be glad that not everyone has the mentality of pirate. ck5 brings some maturity with the knowledge. it's really nice to not have to dig through 20 flame replies to get to some usable info. . on pirate, they rip on someone for being a newbie. well, we were all newbies once.

 

[gmc4cw]

Regardless of whether or not someone would drive a new truck from the lot to the trails, GM isn't making what people want and that combined with horrific overhead costs is why they are in the spot they're in.

As little as 6 months ago, I would have NEVER thought of buying an import truck but I gotta say, those new Tundras are pretty bad a$$. They're building what people want. 380+ hp/400+ ft lb in stock trim is pretty darn impressive in my book.

I would bet a paycheck if GM put out a 1/2 ton truck with a diesel in it again and hired the body designers from Dodge, they'd be hard pressed to meet demand.

you are way off base. GM has 23% of the market share. that means 23% of all cars sold are GM. thats the biggest share right now. So obviously they are making what people want, just not you.

And geuss what? GM is going to put a diesel in their 1/2 ton trucks. But thank god they don't hire any designers from Dodge, cause those trucks just keep geting uglier. Later this year the Hummer H3 will be offered with a 5.3 liter. so they are going the right direction where they need to. I like the nice ride of my IFS 2000.

 

[grimjaw]

What if ...GM does buy Chrysler?

General Motors is in talks to buy DaimlerChrysler AG's struggling Chrysler Group in its entirety, according to several reports.

 

[89mik5]

what about completely boxed in frame I think that is a good step forward. Also making sure that a new rig that i am going to use to tow my toys to play with gets good gas milage when i am going to and from work in it is a plus. When the truck goes green and has a built in generator that I will be able to use to work on stuff at the play site, that also will be nice. Lets face it the k5 rocks and if you are a true crafsman you did alot to make yours bad to the bone. Those things with a little engineering can also be accomplished on a newer rig but if i spend that money on a newer rig i won't want to go beat the doors off of it right? mabey after another 20 years of towing it then it will be time to tear er down and build it bad but in 20 years who knows what will be out there. So my point is why complain when you can go enjoy your k5 now!!!