urbex
1/2 ton status
**** it...never mind...unfollowing.
Last edited:
CK5
Register an account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members.
delete.
- Thread starter urbex
- Start date
why not use a relay and switch its ground like the other switches do ?
and yes product info anymore SUCKS
and yes product info anymore SUCKS
urbex
1/2 ton status
Because I have two coolant temp switches in this circuit, a manual/automatic toggle switch, and two indicator lamps. One of which indicates the manual fan switch turned off with ignition on. Without getting into the full circuit (which probably isn't going to make a lick of sense to anyone not familiar with electronic design anyways), the long story short is that switching power through the temp switches is going to be FAR simpler than switching ground with my current preferred set up. Switching ground is going to involve more than one relay, and likely additional toggle switches.
oooo.... kkkk..... 
was just a idea not knowing your setup .
was just a idea not knowing your setup .urbex
1/2 ton status
I didn't want to get too bogged down in irrelevant details in the first post...what I have set up is a temp switch in the trans cooler return line, along with a temp switch in the radiator cold side tank, both wired in parallel to the front radiator fan relay. This way, either the engine coolant or trans fluid getting too hot will trigger the fan to come on.
Inside, I mounted a panel with a double throw toggle switch - ON/OFF/ON style, and two LEDs. The switch controls the fan to be in 1 of 3 modes - automatic mode, turning on/off based on the on/off status of either temp switch. Manual on, which is just what it sounds like - forces the fan to be on regardless of temp switch status. And then manual Off, which for off road use when crossing deep water to prevent the fan from becoming a propeller and chewing up my expensive radiator. Not likely to happen, but it only takes once to make you want to put a switch in. My once was 20 years ago, on a solo trip, long before we all carried cell phones..and I got to walk 15 miles to get help.
I also added the two indicator lamps. Amber lamp to indicate manual on, and a red lamp to indicate manual off when the ignition is on. This way I have a visual reminder to turn the fan back on, but isn't lit any time the ignition is off. This is all wired through a single DPDT switch, and I'm using both sides to do it. Part of that "light on when switch off" is what resulted in having power coming off the switch rather than a ground.
I could flip power into a ground using additional relays, but that adds additional points of failure into the system. My backup plan is to move to a microprocessor to control all this, but then we get WAY into needless complication territory, lol.
Inside, I mounted a panel with a double throw toggle switch - ON/OFF/ON style, and two LEDs. The switch controls the fan to be in 1 of 3 modes - automatic mode, turning on/off based on the on/off status of either temp switch. Manual on, which is just what it sounds like - forces the fan to be on regardless of temp switch status. And then manual Off, which for off road use when crossing deep water to prevent the fan from becoming a propeller and chewing up my expensive radiator. Not likely to happen, but it only takes once to make you want to put a switch in. My once was 20 years ago, on a solo trip, long before we all carried cell phones..and I got to walk 15 miles to get help.
I also added the two indicator lamps. Amber lamp to indicate manual on, and a red lamp to indicate manual off when the ignition is on. This way I have a visual reminder to turn the fan back on, but isn't lit any time the ignition is off. This is all wired through a single DPDT switch, and I'm using both sides to do it. Part of that "light on when switch off" is what resulted in having power coming off the switch rather than a ground.
I could flip power into a ground using additional relays, but that adds additional points of failure into the system. My backup plan is to move to a microprocessor to control all this, but then we get WAY into needless complication territory, lol.
When I first started reading this, I thought I had a solution. Actually, I do, but it seems to be more than you are looking for.
Most automotive temp switches are going to be within a fairly broad range. Most of the time its not cost effective for them to make them "tighter", and the system they need to control usually has a fairly broad "good" range.
If you want more accuracy, you need to move out of automotive and into general electronic controls. PTC or thermocouple temp sensors and controls are very accurate, repeatable, and can be set to whatever temp and dead band you want. Plus, would give you a readout of the actual temp you are measuring.
I recently bought a four channel K type thermocouple system for about $35. I'm going to install it on my tractor to monitor some items.
It doesn't have control capability, but I don't need that. I just want to be able to monitor four temps in real time.
Right now there are lots of cheap units out there. Some of them might be too cheap to trust your cooling system to. But since you have manual on available, you could add a single overtemp switch that would warn of a control failure.
Just a few seconds of checking found these. Degree C only, but it would be hard to beat the cost....
Or this one. For some reason, even though they make really cheap units, I have had great luck with Drok.
The sensor leads seem too short, but since they are NTC, I suppose you could lengthen them. Might cause a slight offset in the reading, but you could easily compensate for it.
If those won't work, there are lots of others out there. Thermocouples would give you a very wide range and can be extended with the correct wire.
Most automotive temp switches are going to be within a fairly broad range. Most of the time its not cost effective for them to make them "tighter", and the system they need to control usually has a fairly broad "good" range.
If you want more accuracy, you need to move out of automotive and into general electronic controls. PTC or thermocouple temp sensors and controls are very accurate, repeatable, and can be set to whatever temp and dead band you want. Plus, would give you a readout of the actual temp you are measuring.
I recently bought a four channel K type thermocouple system for about $35. I'm going to install it on my tractor to monitor some items.
It doesn't have control capability, but I don't need that. I just want to be able to monitor four temps in real time.
Right now there are lots of cheap units out there. Some of them might be too cheap to trust your cooling system to. But since you have manual on available, you could add a single overtemp switch that would warn of a control failure.
Just a few seconds of checking found these. Degree C only, but it would be hard to beat the cost....
Or this one. For some reason, even though they make really cheap units, I have had great luck with Drok.
The sensor leads seem too short, but since they are NTC, I suppose you could lengthen them. Might cause a slight offset in the reading, but you could easily compensate for it.
If those won't work, there are lots of others out there. Thermocouples would give you a very wide range and can be extended with the correct wire.
Stewart Warner if it's not published e mail them they will answer sometimes same day, if not the next.
urbex
1/2 ton status
This is specifically why I didn't ask "how do I make this work?", nor did I get into the details of what I was doing in the first post - I knew people would latch on to the wrong details, and most people are just going to respond like sweet - "why not just do the normal way?", lol.
No, thermocouples aren't going to work at all, as I'm not attempting to monitor the temps. I specifically stated I need a switch because I need a switch for this, not a sensor/sender. I'm attempting to keep the KISS principle in play here, and do it with simple switches and relays. I don't care about 5-10 degrees one way or the other, beyond just not having the fan continue to run after the thermostat in the engine closes. Typical automotive grades parts are plenty good enough to cycle a cooling fan.
If I have to, I can flip a negative signal from a 1 terminal switch to positive using multiple relays, but that's adding additional points of failure. I can do this with a microprocessor just to handle both positive and negative power input signals from different sources, and then use an output to control a single relay. But that's extreme overkill to replace just one switch in the radiator.
I KNOW switches like this have been made for OEM markets. I KNOW I've pulled switches like this out of cars in the past. But I've been through so many cars in my lifetime that I don't remember which ones these switches came out of, and I definitely don't remember make/break points anymore either, lol. But if I had access to the same kinds of parts catalogs I had 20 years ago, I could quickly find the part I need based on make/break, terminal arrangement, and thread size.
rampage
3/4 ton status
I’m not really able to follow what needs to be done since I’m kinda tired, but instead of an overkill μprocessor it seems like you could use some sort of logic gates (AND/NAND/OR/NOR/XOR etc) which would feed into transistors to activate the relays. Just a thought.
I understood completely that you needed a switch. All those links have switches in them, which can be set to the range you want.
The display and temp readout is just an add on.
Not sure where to find the specs on automotive switches, but Klixon makes simple mechanical temp switches in whatever range you want, and are pretty darn accurate and reliable. Most folks know them as thermal overloads, but they make switches too.
I can't find my Klixon catalog right now, but I will keep lookking. I think they make screw in as well as the disk type.
OK, hang on a minute, I'm going down a rabbit hole. I found something, not sure what. Give me a couple of minutes and I may have some links that you can use.......
The display and temp readout is just an add on.
Not sure where to find the specs on automotive switches, but Klixon makes simple mechanical temp switches in whatever range you want, and are pretty darn accurate and reliable. Most folks know them as thermal overloads, but they make switches too.
I can't find my Klixon catalog right now, but I will keep lookking. I think they make screw in as well as the disk type.
OK, hang on a minute, I'm going down a rabbit hole. I found something, not sure what. Give me a couple of minutes and I may have some links that you can use.......
OK, you mentioned standard. I found something, but my internet connection is flaky tonight, and I'm not sure it has what you need.
First, there is this: https://www.smpbuyersguide.com/standard/BookshelfView/#
These seem to be all the catalogs Standard has for all their products. Not sure they will help, but there is a lot of parts in there.
Then there is this: https://ecatalog.smpcorp.com/STD/#/vehicles
Just for fun, I put in 1972 chevy c-10 8cy 5.7 and Temperature Sender w/ Light
That brought up a TS-49 which looks like you are looking for. But no specs. I crossed it with one of the catalogs, but could not find specs there either.
Ebay has several of them for sale, don't see any specs. But you might send them an email.
While looking around, I ran across this on Amazon, not sure how.
At least it gives specs........
I've been up about 30 hours, and things are getting blurry. I gone.....
First, there is this: https://www.smpbuyersguide.com/standard/BookshelfView/#
These seem to be all the catalogs Standard has for all their products. Not sure they will help, but there is a lot of parts in there.
Then there is this: https://ecatalog.smpcorp.com/STD/#/vehicles
Just for fun, I put in 1972 chevy c-10 8cy 5.7 and Temperature Sender w/ Light
That brought up a TS-49 which looks like you are looking for. But no specs. I crossed it with one of the catalogs, but could not find specs there either.
Ebay has several of them for sale, don't see any specs. But you might send them an email.
While looking around, I ran across this on Amazon, not sure how.
At least it gives specs........
I've been up about 30 hours, and things are getting blurry. I gone.....
You know, that is interesting. I was up to around 1 in the morning trying to find something he could use. Actually found a part number that fit a 70's truck that looked like what he was looking for.
Went back online this morning and found the specs for it, and had a line on the type catalog he was wanting.
Came here to post it, and discovered that he did not like our help so he took his ball and went home.
In a little over 13 years on this forum, that is as close as anyone has ever come to ticking me off. And that includes a guy who advised me to shoot myself.
I have deleted the links to the switch specs, and the catalog. I certainly have no use for them, and it looks like he does not want them.
Anyway, I'm going outside. It has finally stopped raining, and I shot a 4 foot rattlesnake in my back yard that tried to strike me and I never even saw him.
So, I probably need to mow the grass a little shorter now that I can, and I have a piece of property I need to map with a drone.
Busy Busy Busy.........
J.
Went back online this morning and found the specs for it, and had a line on the type catalog he was wanting.
Came here to post it, and discovered that he did not like our help so he took his ball and went home.
In a little over 13 years on this forum, that is as close as anyone has ever come to ticking me off. And that includes a guy who advised me to shoot myself.
I have deleted the links to the switch specs, and the catalog. I certainly have no use for them, and it looks like he does not want them.
Anyway, I'm going outside. It has finally stopped raining, and I shot a 4 foot rattlesnake in my back yard that tried to strike me and I never even saw him.
So, I probably need to mow the grass a little shorter now that I can, and I have a piece of property I need to map with a drone.
Busy Busy Busy.........
J.
