Where I hit the trails - yes. How are you going to air up your tires after a 4WD outing?
CK5
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Detroits bad for the front?
- Thread starter K5dreamer
- Start date
Where I hit the trails - yes. How are you going to air up your tires after a 4WD outing?
i have done some hard core wheelin in my old 1ton.
had 38" swapmper tsl brand new with detroit rear open front.
i will say this. yes locked is great BUT when in snow/loose stuff like sand n gravel or on road drivin in crap you first and formost want open diffs. i would rather spin a tire first than have my rig slide sideways as thay tend to go when there locked and you apply power and thay try and move.
when i had more than 1-2" of snow on the ground i HAD to lock in the 4wd to get anywere. as the rear locker made the truck just wana spin around in a circle. everytime i hit the gas it went right . i let off the gas right back to stright.
when i had the gov-loc in there before same everything on the truck that thing was a whole diffrent animal in the snow. nice and easy went just fine. need traction tap the throttle for little wheel spin and click she would lock in just fine and away i go. then when done she went back to open.
and just as soon as i swaped in the detroit it went to no fun to drive on the street unless in 4wd if in the snow.
the best all around info i have read on this over the years from others and stuff like i just typed here is this
i now have my current project truck STUBBY http://coloradok5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=245582 ya its on hold for now for many reasons. BUT i picked full selectable front and rear. i went arb's as most everyone liked them in the 60's and 14ff's . now i have open/open or open/locked or locked/locked or locked/open tons of options. to me this is the best way to go in my mind for what i want to do with my rig.
now most of my plans for STUBBY are 98% like what you want to use your rig for. and since i went arb's and i know i will be drivin it hard off road and being full locked at times . plus 38-40 tires and lots of stress on the driveline from things like 3 stick doubbler for front digg's then i went spicer hubs with the inner gear broched out to 35 spline. then yukon shafts with nittro joints. ya i also got dedenbear/reid racing knuckles so i could get a beefy steering setup. then i can also use the 5th stud hole on the ord crossover and high steer setup that will have hydro assist on it. you dont need to get this crazy tho. i had the cash and said screw it now or never.
bla bla bla i could go on and on. but i hope you get my points i made. if this thing will see any street time and you want true safe reliable handling in snow/heavy rain/and other crap i would go selectable in the front for a minimum.
and dont forget. you said you pickup people and take them to the hospital or fire/ems places if the weather is bad. do you realy wana be drivin in your rig and hit somthin and be locked all 4 and have the rig suddenly go sideways like its on glass from loss of tire grip to the road and then all 4 lose it cause its locked. ? i have had that happen it will pucker your sphincter right up fast as you can blink a eye.
had 38" swapmper tsl brand new with detroit rear open front.
i will say this. yes locked is great BUT when in snow/loose stuff like sand n gravel or on road drivin in crap you first and formost want open diffs. i would rather spin a tire first than have my rig slide sideways as thay tend to go when there locked and you apply power and thay try and move.
when i had more than 1-2" of snow on the ground i HAD to lock in the 4wd to get anywere. as the rear locker made the truck just wana spin around in a circle. everytime i hit the gas it went right . i let off the gas right back to stright.
when i had the gov-loc in there before same everything on the truck that thing was a whole diffrent animal in the snow. nice and easy went just fine. need traction tap the throttle for little wheel spin and click she would lock in just fine and away i go. then when done she went back to open.
and just as soon as i swaped in the detroit it went to no fun to drive on the street unless in 4wd if in the snow.
the best all around info i have read on this over the years from others and stuff like i just typed here is this
i now have my current project truck STUBBY http://coloradok5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=245582 ya its on hold for now for many reasons. BUT i picked full selectable front and rear. i went arb's as most everyone liked them in the 60's and 14ff's . now i have open/open or open/locked or locked/locked or locked/open tons of options. to me this is the best way to go in my mind for what i want to do with my rig.
now most of my plans for STUBBY are 98% like what you want to use your rig for. and since i went arb's and i know i will be drivin it hard off road and being full locked at times . plus 38-40 tires and lots of stress on the driveline from things like 3 stick doubbler for front digg's then i went spicer hubs with the inner gear broched out to 35 spline. then yukon shafts with nittro joints. ya i also got dedenbear/reid racing knuckles so i could get a beefy steering setup. then i can also use the 5th stud hole on the ord crossover and high steer setup that will have hydro assist on it. you dont need to get this crazy tho. i had the cash and said screw it now or never.
bla bla bla i could go on and on. but i hope you get my points i made. if this thing will see any street time and you want true safe reliable handling in snow/heavy rain/and other crap i would go selectable in the front for a minimum.
and dont forget. you said you pickup people and take them to the hospital or fire/ems places if the weather is bad. do you realy wana be drivin in your rig and hit somthin and be locked all 4 and have the rig suddenly go sideways like its on glass from loss of tire grip to the road and then all 4 lose it cause its locked. ? i have had that happen it will pucker your sphincter right up fast as you can blink a eye.
scottsdale86
1/2 ton status
I don't think what the OP is doing will really require a lot of airing up and down.
K5dreamer
1/2 ton status
hmm... lots of food for thought. time to do some internet searching on options. i hadnt really thought about an onboard compressor and ARB's, i dunno, i think of the three methods of selcting, mechanical, electrical, and air, i like the air method the least. dont really have anything to base that on, just seems more fragile, and prone to failure.
K5dreamer
1/2 ton status
bingo. cant say as ive ever needed to air down yet. may come up someday, but not anytime soon. so its not a priority.
over the road semi's have been runnin air locking diff's and drivelines for years.
and dont get the little arb thing. go york compressor. thats what i am doin.
at 800rpm 35" tire from 5psi to 35 psi in under 60 sec. run full on air tools . feed BIG air horns. and feed arb air lockers. 
and dont get the little arb thing. go york compressor. thats what i am doin.
at 800rpm 35" tire from 5psi to 35 psi in under 60 sec. run full on air tools . feed BIG air horns. and feed arb air lockers. What kind of trails do you run where you don't need to air down?
Lowered tire pressure is your first 'traction device'...
K5dreamer
1/2 ton status
scottsdale86
1/2 ton status
I don't know how it is in the OP's neck of the woods but here i run fire trails, calico, big bear etc. i rarely if ever need to air down. But then again i don't do any hard trails. Just washed out fire trails and driving to my favorite shooting or camping spot.
gotblazers
1/2 ton status
mostly trails, creek crossings, very mild rocks, some mud in george washington national forest. never got stuck once. didnt see the need to air down if i wasnt getting stuck.
My motto is if you aint gettin stuck or breakin **** then you aint tryin hard enough. Airing down has given me the traction i need to get out of several near roll overs and made obstacles of all kinds so much easier. Even if you arent doing it for the performance side of things it makes the truck ride sooooooo much nicer. If your tires are fairly new and on an undamaged rim you should be good to go in the 15-20 psi range which is where i usually live offroad since i dont have onboard air.
K5dreamer
1/2 ton status
well, yeah, to be honest i never have pushed myself too hard. Im kinda the only real truck guy in my group of friends. i know a few guys with jeeps that go out, but im almost always wheeling by myself. no winch, no real recovery gear, so i never get myself into too tight a spot, where im either gonna get stuck, or hurt on my own.
wasnt until recently that i found out there are a few ck5 memebers in my area, and of course now my truck isnt driveable lol.
wasnt until recently that i found out there are a few ck5 memebers in my area, and of course now my truck isnt driveable lol.
scottsdale86
1/2 ton status
I don't know about breaking stuff but i can have fun just wheeling for hours on end going to places most other vehicles cant. I don't rock crawl, or mud or even jump my truck. hats not what it was designed for nor my intended purpose. A clean rig that is capable off road and has a nice lift but look close to stock is my deal. With a mortgage, bills, a wife and kid i cant afford to be breaking stuff all the time. I wish i was 21 again then i could do that stuff but i just cant do it. Then again if i had a purpose built rig that would be cool too but i just cant justify that. I need a DD that can still up the mountain off highway if need be.
I run open diffs, 2wd all the time on ice. Just yesterday I passed a stuck blazer, 2 jeeps, a ford expoder and an ambulance who had all slid off of the road in the same area.
They looked at me funny as I drove by in my 93 Astro van.
Studded tires are your friend.
They looked at me funny as I drove by in my 93 Astro van.
Studded tires are your friend.
First off detroits front and rear on icy roads are not dangerous as I have read on the internet. You must know how to drive your rig and if your first time on ice is with detroits in 4 wd is on a busy road it may be dangerous. I have driven lock rite equipped rigs on icey roads (lock rites front and rear) detroit equipped rigs front and rear and a combo of both. If you know how the rig is going to act they are awesome but it takes some awareness to do this.
If given a choice between detroits, loc rites, or some type of selectable I would always go selectable. Always.
A fully locked up rig will cause you to slide sideways on any type of an incline on icy roads. So if the road is crowned (alot in Idaho are) and you start to spin you will rapidly go to the lower part of the road. Driving with lockers on ice is just different.
If you don't drive on snow often I would just try to afford selectable. I much prefer an open diff on icy roads.
BTW airing down tires should be done every time you are off road unless you are on a hard packed road. It reduces the impact of your vehicle on the ground by decreasing ground pressure.
If given a choice between detroits, loc rites, or some type of selectable I would always go selectable. Always.
A fully locked up rig will cause you to slide sideways on any type of an incline on icy roads. So if the road is crowned (alot in Idaho are) and you start to spin you will rapidly go to the lower part of the road. Driving with lockers on ice is just different.
If you don't drive on snow often I would just try to afford selectable. I much prefer an open diff on icy roads.
BTW airing down tires should be done every time you are off road unless you are on a hard packed road. It reduces the impact of your vehicle on the ground by decreasing ground pressure.
Get this man to a hospital.... He's got a bad case of upgrade fever!
Seriously, re-read everything jms has told you. His personal experiences are really close to what you claim to be going for.
Secondly, if you've never aired down to wheel, you don't need a front locker......Detroit or otherwise. When you put a 38" tire on that truck you are going to gain a TON of traction and clearance, even without lockers. I wheeled for several years with a rear Detroit, 38s and and open front diff. Went to Moab twice with that setup too.
I think it's safe to say that you are planning upgrades that are way beyond the intended use and terrain of your truck. Those new big tires are going to make you a hero on the trails, and if you ever try airing down you won't believe what is possible even with a couple open diffs!
Road manners will be a lot better with two open diffs as well. Make small changes and spend some time observing the results. You'll end up with a better truck and probably spend less money overall.
ya thats right. i went almost anyplace i pointed my old truck with open/detroit with 38 tsl tires.
I haven't told him anything.When people on this board say they want maybe a detroit locker in the front, they've pretty much made up their mind.
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JeffsJeep04
1/2 ton status
I've gotta agree with wheelinzuk. I used to DD an 89 wrangler on 33's with lockrights front and rear. Even with the much shorter wheelbase and 5 speed, it was very manageable. I'll be locking up the rear of my k5 shortly and with the weight, wheelbase, and auto, I don't expect any drama.
I will say though, ideally I'd swap in an axle with a good G80. Best DD solution for the money IMHO. I'd love a selectable locker, but money is very tight right now. A good G80 is very non-invasive and just seems to provide traction when needed and get out of the way when not.
When the wrangler came off of full time DD use, I put it on 36's with a spool in the back and a lockright up front. The spool was actually better in that application because with the light weight tire wear wasn't an issue and it was much more predictable. No lane changes on gear shifts. In 4wd, I'd have to feather the throttle in turns to keep the front end unlocked or it would push straight ahead. I ended up putting a 2low kit in the transfer case so I could take advantage of the low gearing but only engage the front axle when I needed it. With the 36 iroks and the rear spool, 4wd was rarely needed on the trail. I'm gonna agree with the others...hold off on the front locker.
I will say though, ideally I'd swap in an axle with a good G80. Best DD solution for the money IMHO. I'd love a selectable locker, but money is very tight right now. A good G80 is very non-invasive and just seems to provide traction when needed and get out of the way when not.
When the wrangler came off of full time DD use, I put it on 36's with a spool in the back and a lockright up front. The spool was actually better in that application because with the light weight tire wear wasn't an issue and it was much more predictable. No lane changes on gear shifts. In 4wd, I'd have to feather the throttle in turns to keep the front end unlocked or it would push straight ahead. I ended up putting a 2low kit in the transfer case so I could take advantage of the low gearing but only engage the front axle when I needed it. With the 36 iroks and the rear spool, 4wd was rarely needed on the trail. I'm gonna agree with the others...hold off on the front locker.
K5dreamer
1/2 ton status
i do have upgrade fever out the wazzooo lol.
but thats why i come here, for advice, and to get called out when im being retarded. as it stands, both axles are currently open. and in all reality, thats probably how they will go into the truck. But im doing research for the future. I have the G80 in my M1009, and love the traction the auto locker has, but to my knowledge dont think there is such an animal for the D70HD. If im gonna have an auto locker in the rear, id prefer it be the one least likely to fail and be the most worry free. i dont have an onboard air compressor, so installing the ARB's to me seems like a hassle. the detroit would be a simple bolt in proposition.
so contrary to popular behavior, yall have talked me out of doing anything to the front axle for now. open it is. hell, saves me a few hundo's, im ok with that. so i guess that answers my question that started the thread.
but thats why i come here, for advice, and to get called out when im being retarded. as it stands, both axles are currently open. and in all reality, thats probably how they will go into the truck. But im doing research for the future. I have the G80 in my M1009, and love the traction the auto locker has, but to my knowledge dont think there is such an animal for the D70HD. If im gonna have an auto locker in the rear, id prefer it be the one least likely to fail and be the most worry free. i dont have an onboard air compressor, so installing the ARB's to me seems like a hassle. the detroit would be a simple bolt in proposition.
so contrary to popular behavior, yall have talked me out of doing anything to the front axle for now. open it is. hell, saves me a few hundo's, im ok with that. so i guess that answers my question that started the thread.
