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diesel,gas,alcohol,veg oil, or paint thinner?

blazin_blazer

blazin_blazer

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what was the old military engine i've heard about that would run on anything liquid and combustable w/ thin enuff viscosity that fuel pump would pump it and flow thru carb, even mixed together,didn't matter, so gi's, if had 2, could run what they could find is what i understood.
what was special that allowed this motor to do this?
iirc diesel ignites at 14.7:1 comp ratio, but w/sparkplugs i assume it would lightoff at lower ratio.
was it just a real low compression motor or was there more to it than that? what was it called and who made it so i can research it, this sounds very intreging?
 
Hercules LDT-465. I think that is what you are looking for.

I want to say that there are no spark plugs. I don't recall any. The diesel, kerosene, jet fuel would fowl them up. I would guess that gasoline would be ignited by compression as well.
 
thats what i thought about the plugs also with diesel and oils, but i figured jet fuel/gas would ignite way to soon b4 tdc if engine fired on compression and try to turn engine backwards, want to learn more, would be nice to pull up to cheapest pump, no matter what it was!
 
jet fuel is a mixture of kerosine and diesel, I don't think precombustion would be a problem there. I could see it being a problem with gasoline, but it does work. There are two problems with running gasoline though. One is temperature since it burns hotter, the other is the lack of lube for injectors. I've only ran gas in one once and didn't have a problem. It just idled high and ran a little warmer. Now, the injectors might be quality enough to run w/o the extra lube of diesel, but I would think the metals would get tempered to running with lube. I dunno, not a metallurgist.

You can buy a duece and check it out. http://www.govliquidation.com (Legit site. When DRMO was open on Tinker I could check the site, then go to DRMO and find the stuff.)

Personally I'd be happy with a propane setup that still allowed me to run gasoline.
 
Pick me up a duece too while you are at it!

Yup I think the LDT-465 is the engine you are thinking of. I have seen the manufacturer listed as White, Continental, and Hercules. Must have been one of those WWII things where everybody was building everything.

I was in a factory outside Chicago yesterday that was used to make bombers in WWII. The guy told me that the floor is 7 feet of concrete with a basement underneath for a bomb shelter.
 
The Military had (has?) multifuel engines but not one you can run gas or diesel in like you suggest.

BTW, you forgot to mention coal:haha::haha:
 
BKinzey said:
The Military had (has?) multifuel engines but not one you can run gas or diesel in like you suggest.
Click to expand...

The duece is made to run on diesel, jet fuel, gasoline, and any mixture thereof. Not only have I done it, it says it right next to the steering column.

But it is working on being a 'had'. The new rigs aren't multi-fuel. Or at least it's not being advertised.
 
My dad had a 1952 military jeep it said multi feul on the gas cap. That being said I dont think they realy wanted a guy to run straight diesel in the gas engines or visa-versa. I think it was more like a couple gallons of mixed fuels, to get ya home.

I can tell you top speed was 50mph on gasoline. Top speed with 50/50 gas and methanol was around 80mph.
 
I seen a multi fuel tag on an H1 when I use to work for a place that built rescue vehicles. Not sure what fuels that meant. Looked like a 6.5 diesel to me.??
 
Cowboy_80 said:
The duece is made to run on diesel, jet fuel, gasoline, and any mixture thereof. Not only have I done it, it says it right next to the steering column.

But it is working on being a 'had'. The new rigs aren't multi-fuel. Or at least it's not being advertised.
Click to expand...


Now you're claiming you've done it?

I doubt it, unless you ruined the engine. Follow his post. He says buy what he wants (what's cheapest) at the pump. That means this engine needs to run on a full tank of diesel and a full tank of gas. Not 30 gallons of diesel with a gallon of gas mixed in. This engine also has to fit in a domestic light truck. So take any multifuel engine, sure, we can even pretend any deuce & a half engine would actually fit. Use any 10+ gallon tank and fill with diesel. Now hit the road and when the tank gets less than a gallon in it fill it with gasoline and hit the road again. If you make it that far. I'd be surprised if you get out of the gas station's parking lot.

Better hope your diesel/gas engine has electric fuel pumps. If they are mechanical turning the key off won't work. It will run, scream one might say, at a high RPM until something breaks or melts.
 
the engine i'm talking about was in the jeep not the deuce, and iirc it had like 6.5:1 compression....saw 1, once in cj2a....guy told me the low compression allowed it 2 run on anything the gi's could find...gas,diesel,alky,veg oil,kerosine
 
More than you wanted to know


Spherical (Hypercycle) Chamber
The spherical (hypercycle) combustion chamber (fig. 5-5) is designed principally for use in the multifuel diesel engine. The chamber consists of a basic open type chamber with a spherical shaped relief in the top of the piston head. The chamber works in conjunction with a strategically positioned injector and an intake port that produces a swirling effect, as it enters the chamber. Operation of the chamber is as follows:
  1. As the air enters the combustion chamber, the shape of the intake port (fig. 5-5) introduces a swirling effect to it.
  2. During the compression stroke, the swirling motion of the air continues as the temperature in the chamber increases (fig. 5-5).
  3. As the fuel is injected, approximately 95 percent of it is deposited on the head of the piston and the remainder mixes with the air in the spherical combustion chamber (fig. 5-5).
  4. As combustion begins, the main portion of the fuel is swept off the piston head by the high-velocity swirl that was created by the intake and the compression strokes.
  5. As the fuel is swept off of the head, it burns through the power stroke, maintaining even combustion and eliminating detonation (fig. 5-5).
 
[email protected] wrote:

David:
There are a lot of myths floating around regarding the Multifuel engine. I
will try to help you.
In the late 1950's the decision was made to adapt the G742 series vehicles
(as well as many other tactical vehicles) to run on diesel or gasoline or
various other fuels. Fitting the Continental LDS-427 turbosupercharged,
multifuel engine did this. This engine built under license from M.A.N.
(Maschinenfabrik Augsburg-Nurnberg) uses the Hypercycle combustion process.
Into the top of the piston of this engine is machined a spherical combustion
chamber. During operation the injector sprays 95% of its charge onto the wall
of this chamber in the form of a thin film. The remaining 5% is atomized.
The compression stroke, which generates temperatures in the 900-1000 degree
range, ignites this atomized charge, and the main portion of the charge is
gradually vaporized by an air swirl created during the intake and compression
strokes. Since the air swirl removes only the top surface of the fuel
sprayed on the walls of this combustion chamber during the power stroke
combustion is even and there is no detonation knock.

Unfortunately, the LDS-427 was not entirely successful, and this led to the
development of the LD-465 series of engines. Whereas the LDS-427 was turbo-supercharged, the LD-465 was a naturally aspirated engine. If you ever
convoy behind someone driving a truck with one of these engines it is a
memorable experience, as there is a voluminous cloud of black smoke at
virtually all speeds. It is this smoke cloud that led to the development of
the LDT-465-1.

While the LDS-465 version of this engine was from the beginning
turbosupercharged (as well as other internal changes) for additional power
and used in 5-ton trucks, the turbosupercharger on the LDT was applied to
reduce this exhaust plume. The LDT-465 produces only 4 horsepower more than
the LD-465, but the power comes on quicker, and the exhaust plume is not as
pronounced.

At this point I will mention that I have seen it said in various books and
articles that the LDS-427 were multifuel engines, but the LDT-465 series were
not multifuel engines. I have not been able to find any information to
support these statements. The nameplate on the engines say "Multifuel," both
series were produced under the M.A.N. license, the Technical Manuals all say
"multifuel," and the block, head, and piston designs are essentially the
same. Therefore I believe both the LDS-427 and LDT-465 series to be
Multifuel engines.

The injection pumps on all of these engines except the early LDS-427 were
originally equipped with a fuel density compensator, which varies the fuel
delivery rate as fuels are changed or mixed. As built, no adjustments are
changes are necessary to change fuels, and mixing of various fuels is
permissible.

In recent years, the fuel density compensators have been bypassed, and they
are now tagged "diesel fuel only," but instructions are included to reconnect
the compensator.

In practical terms, it is generally considered unwise to operate these
engines on gasoline, and under no circumstances is av-gas permitted.

I have burned diesel, kerosene, and Jet A in my trucks at various times, and
can note no difference in engine or vehicle performance.

Hope this helps,
David Doyle
 
That is a lot of information, and more than I ever knew. I always did wonder how they made it multi-fuel, but never looked it up.
 
BKinzey said:
Now you're claiming you've done it?

I doubt it, unless you ruined the engine. Follow his post. He says buy what he wants (what's cheapest) at the pump. That means this engine needs to run on a full tank of diesel and a full tank of gas. Not 30 gallons of diesel with a gallon of gas mixed in. This engine also has to fit in a domestic light truck. So take any multifuel engine, sure, we can even pretend any deuce & a half engine would actually fit. Use any 10+ gallon tank and fill with diesel. Now hit the road and when the tank gets less than a gallon in it fill it with gasoline and hit the road again. If you make it that far. I'd be surprised if you get out of the gas station's parking lot.

Better hope your diesel/gas engine has electric fuel pumps. If they are mechanical turning the key off won't work. It will run, scream one might say, at a high RPM until something breaks or melts.
Click to expand...


Does this make you feel better about multi-fuel engines?
http://www.tpub.com/content/maintenance_procedures/TM-9-2815-210-34-2-1/TM-9-2815-210-34-2-10029.htm

I mean really, just because you've never done it, or heard of it, why be so mad that someone else has? I don't appreciate you calling my integrity into question. Questioning what someone else has told me, fine. Don't question me. Obviously I'm not the only person in the world that knows about this since someone else posed the question about it. Whatever, I'm done.

Back to topic. Here is another multi-fuel engine I found interesting. I doubt you could get your hands on one though. Google "CR2A turbine engine".
 
ty metro..lot of good info!

gas doesnt lube injectors?...wonder if a qt. of oil in tank when u run gas would suffice?

i think i'm going to research the propane/gas engine some more..any good links to that?
 
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