speedyvision917
1/2 ton status
Duramax just cause i hate ford and gas is more expensive /forums/images/graemlins/waytogo.gif
CK5
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Duramax??? Power stroke??? or Chevy 6.0???
- Thread starter dawson444
- Start date
therobzilla
1/2 ton status
I gotta say, I looked at a bunch of tow trucks when I was looking for a tow rig, what I found was the CTD was the setup.
With regular PM, these trucks will go lot's of miles. It's nothing for a CTD to run out to about 400K. The Cummins is the setup for towing. I bought mine with 127K on it and it's like new, tows my gooseneck trailer with camper on the gooseneck trailer and blazer like it's not back there. Gets great mileage too. A few select BOMBS and it's a towing monster.
I bought mine for 16K used and got a smoking deal.
CUMMINS ALL THE WAY FOR TOWING.
Good luck with your decision.
Rob
With regular PM, these trucks will go lot's of miles. It's nothing for a CTD to run out to about 400K. The Cummins is the setup for towing. I bought mine with 127K on it and it's like new, tows my gooseneck trailer with camper on the gooseneck trailer and blazer like it's not back there. Gets great mileage too. A few select BOMBS and it's a towing monster.
I bought mine for 16K used and got a smoking deal.
CUMMINS ALL THE WAY FOR TOWING.
Good luck with your decision.
Rob
I have a '02 2500HD with DMax/Alli and I love it so far.
It has great power stock, with a much flatter, broader torque curve than a Cummins or International. It also has by far the cheapest power upgrades dollar-for-dollar of any diesel option available and the only decent auto available (other than perhaps the new and unproven Ford which is having growing pains from what I've heard). I was very interested in the Cummins when I got mine, but I wanted a real crew cab, not the diminutive Dodge offering. I'm very glad I made the choice I did…
It has great power stock, with a much flatter, broader torque curve than a Cummins or International. It also has by far the cheapest power upgrades dollar-for-dollar of any diesel option available and the only decent auto available (other than perhaps the new and unproven Ford which is having growing pains from what I've heard). I was very interested in the Cummins when I got mine, but I wanted a real crew cab, not the diminutive Dodge offering. I'm very glad I made the choice I did…
zcarczar
1/2 ton status
Duramax.
[ QUOTE ]
FWIW, the `04 and up dodge 4x4 CTD's come with 14 bolts front and rear /forums/images/graemlins/eek.gif
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They are definitely not the same "14-bolts" that are commonly talked about on this board. The front is a 9.25" diff and the rear is an 11.5" diff made by American Axle (AAM). About the only thing the front and rear axles have in common to each other, and the "old" 14-bolt is that they have 14 bolts holding on the cover.........
FWIW, the `04 and up dodge 4x4 CTD's come with 14 bolts front and rear /forums/images/graemlins/eek.gif
[/ QUOTE ]
They are definitely not the same "14-bolts" that are commonly talked about on this board. The front is a 9.25" diff and the rear is an 11.5" diff made by American Axle (AAM). About the only thing the front and rear axles have in common to each other, and the "old" 14-bolt is that they have 14 bolts holding on the cover.........
BlueBlazer
1/2 ton status
- Joined
- Feb 15, 2001
- Posts
- 1,940
- Reaction score
- 1
[ QUOTE ]
It has great power stock, with a much flatter, broader torque curve than a Cummins or International
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Cat's on highway engines dont rev over 2300, that doesnt mean they cant pull without a broad torque curve with little usable rpm.
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It also has by far the cheapest power upgrades dollar-for-dollar of any diesel
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I think this is a moot point when you consider the initial cost of a Chevy with a Dmax is almost $5000 more (researched the MSRPs on both Dodge and Chevy websites). That much money can give you a helluva lot of power. Just throwin that out there in case the original poster is considering a Dodge over a Chevy.
It has great power stock, with a much flatter, broader torque curve than a Cummins or International
[/ QUOTE ]
Cat's on highway engines dont rev over 2300, that doesnt mean they cant pull without a broad torque curve with little usable rpm.
[ QUOTE ]
It also has by far the cheapest power upgrades dollar-for-dollar of any diesel
[/ QUOTE ]
I think this is a moot point when you consider the initial cost of a Chevy with a Dmax is almost $5000 more (researched the MSRPs on both Dodge and Chevy websites). That much money can give you a helluva lot of power. Just throwin that out there in case the original poster is considering a Dodge over a Chevy.
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It also has by far the cheapest power upgrades dollar-for-dollar of any diesel option available
[/ QUOTE ]
I disagree, there are ny far more cummins upgrades out there than the PS and Dmax. Much more power can be made with the cummins too if the pocket book is deep enough. I've noticed that most of the programmers and exhaust systems run about the same amount of money for eash engine anyway, maybe a little higher for the PS motors. /forums/images/graemlins/thinking.gif
It also has by far the cheapest power upgrades dollar-for-dollar of any diesel option available
[/ QUOTE ]
I disagree, there are ny far more cummins upgrades out there than the PS and Dmax. Much more power can be made with the cummins too if the pocket book is deep enough. I've noticed that most of the programmers and exhaust systems run about the same amount of money for eash engine anyway, maybe a little higher for the PS motors. /forums/images/graemlins/thinking.gif
I am a Chevy/GM man at heart but I am not so loyal as to be a fool. If I were going Auto I would definitely get the GM offering (Allison), the Ford auto has diminuative hard parts when compared to the Allison (Off-Road magazine did a comparison September 2004) and the Dodge auto is very similar to the Ford with less towing/hauling abilities. If I were looking to go stick I would take either the Dodge or the Chevy. There is no debating that the Cummins can be made to spank the Duramax or new Ford offering. I have driven many CTD's both stock and non-stock and they are great towing vehicles (before the auto trannies launch), and with a stick they are pretty much unstoppable. The one thing I did not like about the Dodge's besides the auto trannies were the front axles (4WD), even with light duty plowing they seem to not stand up as well as the Ford front axles or even the IFS setups in the 2500HD's and 3500 GM's. And I know some like the Dodge interior, but a quad cab GM has alot more appeal to me.... Alot depends on what you want, what you want to do with it, and how much coin you are willing to part with. Remember a ounce of prevention now is worth a pound of cure down the road.....
Whatever you get, as long as YOU like it, it's all that matters. Good Luck /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
Whatever you get, as long as YOU like it, it's all that matters. Good Luck /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
You're 100% correct that there are more Cummins toys out there, but keep in mind that there have been four generations of the 5.9L in 15 years, so not all addons work on all the engines.
That aside, the programmers and exhaust systems do all cost about the same. But there are different power gains for each, and the Dmax generally has the highest. This excludes tuners like Banks. I'm thinking more along the lines of Van Aaken and TST - the real powerhouse tuners.
In fact, it wasn't a chevy guy that pointed this out to me. Somebody on the TDR forum made the case. It is cheapest to upgrade a Dmax than any other light-truck diesel right now.
That aside, the programmers and exhaust systems do all cost about the same. But there are different power gains for each, and the Dmax generally has the highest. This excludes tuners like Banks. I'm thinking more along the lines of Van Aaken and TST - the real powerhouse tuners.
In fact, it wasn't a chevy guy that pointed this out to me. Somebody on the TDR forum made the case. It is cheapest to upgrade a Dmax than any other light-truck diesel right now.
Nonesuch
1/2 ton status
I know this but I just had to stir the pot a little. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif /forums/images/graemlins/histerical.gif
Another recommendation is to get some seat time in each truck while driving empty. If you are like most people then 90% of the time the truck will be empty. When it comes to the Dodge trucks with the CTD I've spent quite a bit of seat time in just about every generation and model combination they have had, it tows heavy loads really good but I didn't like driving them empty. For the CTD's with auto trans they all felt pretty slow when empty, with the exception of the latest H.O. models with the 48RE trans (most of the previous models with autos all had de-tuned motors). The 6-speed manual is a nice trans, but again I didn't like it for empty daily driving.....with the relatively narrow rpm range of the engine you just spent a lot of time rowing through the gears.
[ QUOTE ]
Cat's on highway engines dont rev over 2300, that doesnt mean they cant pull without a broad torque curve with little usable rpm.
[/ QUOTE ]
That's certainly true. But it does mean you need more gears, gear splitters, and generally spend more time "working" the truck to get it to do the work required. The CTD is much the same. You need at least 6 gears (forget an auto) to keep it in the torque curve and you'll spend more time and effort trying to get what you want from it. With the DMax in an auto or manual, it's just point and shoot.
[ QUOTE ]
I think this is a moot point when you consider the initial cost of a Chevy with a Dmax is almost $5000 more (researched the MSRPs on both Dodge and Chevy websites). That much money can give you a helluva lot of power. Just throwin that out there in case the original poster is considering a Dodge over a Chevy.
[/ QUOTE ]
And
[ QUOTE ]
I disagree, there are ny far more cummins upgrades out there than the PS and Dmax. Much more power can be made with the cummins too if the pocket book is deep enough. I've noticed that most of the programmers and exhaust systems run about the same amount of money for eash engine anyway, maybe a little higher for the PS motors.
[/ QUOTE ]
Hmmm, that depends. If you look at loaded and with Allison premium, yeah, the GM is quite a bit more expensive. But IIRC, the stripped versions are much more even in price. So if power is the only goal, I think the DMax still wins for the up to 500 rwhp and 900 ft/lb crowd. And if you want the better ride and drive of the GM anyway, or like me, you got the GM employee price, then the cheaper/easier DMax power is very much worth considering on it's own. And the DMax can make an honest dyno'ed 500 rwhp and 900 ft/lbs with less than $1000 in upgrades, the others can't even come close in the price range. We're not talking exhaust and intakes either, these things provide very little significant performance increase on their own, they are simply enablers that let you get the power elsewhere. Things like Turbos and/or injectors are required to get there on the others where the DMax can get there with much better drivability with nothing but a chip. Also, the GM upgrades to get to that point can be removed in 5 minutes to help deal with asshat dealers who would void the paint warranty for a power adder. Try that with a turbo and injector/pump upgrade. But if you've got deep pockets, both the (older) PowerStroke and CTD will eclipse the DMax in brute power, though often at the expense of drivability. This ultimate power is more a function of "time in market" than engine though and the DMax will be catching up there as well with the new turbo packages and injectors only now beginning to come to market. The computer alone is worth so much power (simply removing the detune) that it was not worthwhile until now to invest the effort in other things.
Cat's on highway engines dont rev over 2300, that doesnt mean they cant pull without a broad torque curve with little usable rpm.
[/ QUOTE ]
That's certainly true. But it does mean you need more gears, gear splitters, and generally spend more time "working" the truck to get it to do the work required. The CTD is much the same. You need at least 6 gears (forget an auto) to keep it in the torque curve and you'll spend more time and effort trying to get what you want from it. With the DMax in an auto or manual, it's just point and shoot.
[ QUOTE ]
I think this is a moot point when you consider the initial cost of a Chevy with a Dmax is almost $5000 more (researched the MSRPs on both Dodge and Chevy websites). That much money can give you a helluva lot of power. Just throwin that out there in case the original poster is considering a Dodge over a Chevy.
[/ QUOTE ]
And
[ QUOTE ]
I disagree, there are ny far more cummins upgrades out there than the PS and Dmax. Much more power can be made with the cummins too if the pocket book is deep enough. I've noticed that most of the programmers and exhaust systems run about the same amount of money for eash engine anyway, maybe a little higher for the PS motors.
[/ QUOTE ]
Hmmm, that depends. If you look at loaded and with Allison premium, yeah, the GM is quite a bit more expensive. But IIRC, the stripped versions are much more even in price. So if power is the only goal, I think the DMax still wins for the up to 500 rwhp and 900 ft/lb crowd. And if you want the better ride and drive of the GM anyway, or like me, you got the GM employee price, then the cheaper/easier DMax power is very much worth considering on it's own. And the DMax can make an honest dyno'ed 500 rwhp and 900 ft/lbs with less than $1000 in upgrades, the others can't even come close in the price range. We're not talking exhaust and intakes either, these things provide very little significant performance increase on their own, they are simply enablers that let you get the power elsewhere. Things like Turbos and/or injectors are required to get there on the others where the DMax can get there with much better drivability with nothing but a chip. Also, the GM upgrades to get to that point can be removed in 5 minutes to help deal with asshat dealers who would void the paint warranty for a power adder. Try that with a turbo and injector/pump upgrade. But if you've got deep pockets, both the (older) PowerStroke and CTD will eclipse the DMax in brute power, though often at the expense of drivability. This ultimate power is more a function of "time in market" than engine though and the DMax will be catching up there as well with the new turbo packages and injectors only now beginning to come to market. The computer alone is worth so much power (simply removing the detune) that it was not worthwhile until now to invest the effort in other things.
BlueBlazer
1/2 ton status
- Joined
- Feb 15, 2001
- Posts
- 1,940
- Reaction score
- 1
[ QUOTE ]
You need at least 6 gears (forget an auto) to keep it in the torque curve and you'll spend more time and effort trying to get what you want from it. With the DMax in an auto or manual, it's just point and shoot.
[/ QUOTE ]
I dont agree speaking from personal experience test driving both, and I would much rather row through 6 gears than 3 on my one ton so I can keep the engine where I want it instead of having a huge rpm drop in each gear.
[ QUOTE ]
So if power is the only goal, I think the DMax still wins for the up to 500 rwhp and 900 ft/lb crowd
[/ QUOTE ]
Explain please? When you have an extra $5000 to play with on a Dodge, how is the Chevy still a better bang for the buck?
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though often at the expense of drivability
[/ QUOTE ]
Examples? I have never seen a Dodge with driveability problems because of modifications to the engine. Also, I really can not tell much of a difference in ride between the two, but then again my crew cab is basically a lumber wagon so anything is an improvement /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Dont take this as me trying to start a pissing contest, just trying to make sure that factual information is being given, and I would hope that if you thought something I said was questionable you would question me too /forums/images/graemlins/peace.gif
You need at least 6 gears (forget an auto) to keep it in the torque curve and you'll spend more time and effort trying to get what you want from it. With the DMax in an auto or manual, it's just point and shoot.
[/ QUOTE ]
I dont agree speaking from personal experience test driving both, and I would much rather row through 6 gears than 3 on my one ton so I can keep the engine where I want it instead of having a huge rpm drop in each gear.
[ QUOTE ]
So if power is the only goal, I think the DMax still wins for the up to 500 rwhp and 900 ft/lb crowd
[/ QUOTE ]
Explain please? When you have an extra $5000 to play with on a Dodge, how is the Chevy still a better bang for the buck?
[ QUOTE ]
though often at the expense of drivability
[/ QUOTE ]
Examples? I have never seen a Dodge with driveability problems because of modifications to the engine. Also, I really can not tell much of a difference in ride between the two, but then again my crew cab is basically a lumber wagon so anything is an improvement /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Dont take this as me trying to start a pissing contest, just trying to make sure that factual information is being given, and I would hope that if you thought something I said was questionable you would question me too /forums/images/graemlins/peace.gif
The Edge juice EZ module will bring an 01' HO CTD to roughly 855 ft lbs of torque and roughly 380 HP with a bill of about $870 depending on the supplier od the module. I would like to here how a duramax (2001 rated at 300/520) can make 500/900 with just a programmer under $1000. You have my attention. /forums/images/graemlins/thinking.gif
After more thought about the topic....here is my take on it.
The PS and Dmax are faster out of the box( or with mild upgrades) than the cummins but....
under load i do believe the cummins is a better puller and under extreme hi perfromance mods they are the only motors that can handle the amount of power being made by some of those DHRA guys. I do agree though that like most of us that just want to do a programmer, intake, and exhaust mods...the Dmax will be faster than the cummins unless turbos, injectors, and propane/nitrous are considered because of the simple fact that the cummins bottom end can take more abuse than the Dmax probably could.
The PS and Dmax are faster out of the box( or with mild upgrades) than the cummins but....
under load i do believe the cummins is a better puller and under extreme hi perfromance mods they are the only motors that can handle the amount of power being made by some of those DHRA guys. I do agree though that like most of us that just want to do a programmer, intake, and exhaust mods...the Dmax will be faster than the cummins unless turbos, injectors, and propane/nitrous are considered because of the simple fact that the cummins bottom end can take more abuse than the Dmax probably could.
No problems at all. If I don't make sense, I hope people will readily point out my mistakes…
[ QUOTE ]
I dont agree speaking from personal experience test driving both, and I would much rather row through 6 gears than 3 on my one ton so I can keep the engine where I want it instead of having a huge rpm drop in each gear.
[/ QUOTE ]
3? If your talking of the Alli, it is a 5 speed with 6 possible (it's just missing on the GM version which is basically the same as 2k series 6 speeds). And I agree with keeping the engine where it likes to be, it's just easier when the torque curve looks like a table top from 1.8k up to 3.6k rather than spiking and falling off over a relatively narrow rpm range. From some I've talked to running 6 speeds and bombed CTDs, several have said they wished they could split the gears in certain ranges, but I don't remember the, specifics.
[ QUOTE ]
Explain please? When you have an extra $5000 to play with on a Dodge, how is the Chevy still a better bang for the buck?
[/ QUOTE ]
As I said, if you eliminate the high priced options, like Alli, On-Star, 4x4, Crew Cab, leather, etc., I don't believe the difference is so dramatic. IIRC, GM upgrade option prices tend to be significantly higher than competitors which makes the base model competitive but the loaded models much more expensive. But it's been 2 years since I was comparing. Then I found out I could get the GM plan and the decision was done…
[ QUOTE ]
Examples? I have never seen a Dodge with driveability problems because of modifications to the engine. Also, I really can not tell much of a difference in ride between the two, but then again my crew cab is basically a lumber wagon so anything is an improvement
[/ QUOTE ]
My neighbor and a friend of my dad's both had CTDs that were bombed to different degrees. My neighbor was very mild and seemed to always have trouble with his including repeated (3?) rebuilds on the manual trans (due to the typical known issues and synchros as well). He specifically claimed to have problems with power drop off in certain gear shifts due to the "spiky" nature of the CTD torque curve. He had exhaust and (relatively mild) chip with pump mods (I think?) on a 98 Quad Cab duelly he used to tow his painting business equipment all over the west coast and across the rockies. My dad's friend (who I never met but heard about) also claimed to be unhappy with the CTD towing a large 5th wheel and traided it for a DMax (the reason my dad (who owns and RV dealership) mentioned it to me). Again, the story was the same. He wanted more power to deal with hills and mountains. Got the power, but found it wasn't consistent enough and caused him frustration. He also claimed to like the ride of the DMax (both 4x4s) much better and over all improvements in towing and driveability. But this is 2nd hand at best. The rest is just stuff I've read on the towing boards (including CTD and general diesel oriented, not just DMax focused which would be suspect) or "friend of a friend".
[ QUOTE ]
The Edge juice EZ module will bring an 01' HO CTD to roughly 855 ft lbs of torque and roughly 380 HP with a bill of about $870 depending on the supplier od the module. I would like to here how a duramax (2001 rated at 300/520) can make 500/900 with just a programmer under $1000. You have my attention.
[/ QUOTE ]
This again is not my personal experience, but I believe John Kennedy (Kennedy Diesel) got right at 500 rwhp with the "200 hp" VA box. And the Hot Juice is reported (if I'm not getting this confused) around 465-475 rwhp. Of course if you don't do the exhaust and trans at these levels you will have EGT and trans issues. But that's true of the Cummins at those levels too. But it's been some time since I was reading all that on "The Diesel Place" so I could be off, but I'm pretty sure that VA box was around $800 then and coming down. The Hot Juice can be had, IIRC, for around $675 from a guy selling them below "Edge Price" on Ebay.
[ QUOTE ]
The PS and Dmax are faster out of the box( or with mild upgrades) than the cummins but....
under load i do believe the cummins is a better puller and under extreme hi perfromance mods they are the only motors that can handle the amount of power being made by some of those DHRA guys. I do agree though that like most of us that just want to do a programmer, intake, and exhaust mods...the Dmax will be faster than the cummins unless turbos, injectors, and propane/nitrous are considered because of the simple fact that the cummins bottom end can take more abuse than the Dmax probably could
[/ QUOTE ]
I do agree with most of this. But with the new turbos and injectors (among other things) I doubt the CTD will hold onto it's total dominance in DHRA much longer. I'm sure it will still be a contender, and may still dominate, but not by such a huge margine as now. Last I heard there were D/As dipping into low 12s and below (again IIRC) and that was with drugs but without the latest injectors and turbo (ATS?). No debating the bottom end strength of the 6BT though, I'll readily concede that point. But I've not heard any problems with the DMax bottom end, even turned WAY up, so I think the point is moot. The guy trying to break below 12 did window the block, but he said that was due to over-boost combined with the drugs. I do find it funny that the DMax with those "weak aluminum heads" runs at those levels with no changes but the Cummins guys have to o-ring those big iron heads to get to those levels.
And finally, just in the interest of "full disclosure", I don't claim to be an expert at these things, but I have done quite a bit or reading/research on the various focused forums (Dodge, GM, AND Ford) to develop my current opinions. My memory is not what it once was, and my numbers may not be exact, but it should be close enough for this discussion. If you want the real scoop and to eliminate the errors of my memory, I would recommend that you visit the various focused diesel board and find out what the owners and advocates say about their trucks. You'll hear lots of bad about the "other brand" on each board, but when they talk about their own problems, and "taken with a grain of salt" since they really loath to admit any weaknesses, you can find lots of good and *true* info to base your decision on. It's a trade off either way, and they each have their pro/con arguments. You just need to decide which is best for you. I would never change my decision, even if I had to pay full price, but that's me and based on what I need/want…
[ QUOTE ]
I dont agree speaking from personal experience test driving both, and I would much rather row through 6 gears than 3 on my one ton so I can keep the engine where I want it instead of having a huge rpm drop in each gear.
[/ QUOTE ]
3? If your talking of the Alli, it is a 5 speed with 6 possible (it's just missing on the GM version which is basically the same as 2k series 6 speeds). And I agree with keeping the engine where it likes to be, it's just easier when the torque curve looks like a table top from 1.8k up to 3.6k rather than spiking and falling off over a relatively narrow rpm range. From some I've talked to running 6 speeds and bombed CTDs, several have said they wished they could split the gears in certain ranges, but I don't remember the, specifics.
[ QUOTE ]
Explain please? When you have an extra $5000 to play with on a Dodge, how is the Chevy still a better bang for the buck?
[/ QUOTE ]
As I said, if you eliminate the high priced options, like Alli, On-Star, 4x4, Crew Cab, leather, etc., I don't believe the difference is so dramatic. IIRC, GM upgrade option prices tend to be significantly higher than competitors which makes the base model competitive but the loaded models much more expensive. But it's been 2 years since I was comparing. Then I found out I could get the GM plan and the decision was done…
[ QUOTE ]
Examples? I have never seen a Dodge with driveability problems because of modifications to the engine. Also, I really can not tell much of a difference in ride between the two, but then again my crew cab is basically a lumber wagon so anything is an improvement
[/ QUOTE ]
My neighbor and a friend of my dad's both had CTDs that were bombed to different degrees. My neighbor was very mild and seemed to always have trouble with his including repeated (3?) rebuilds on the manual trans (due to the typical known issues and synchros as well). He specifically claimed to have problems with power drop off in certain gear shifts due to the "spiky" nature of the CTD torque curve. He had exhaust and (relatively mild) chip with pump mods (I think?) on a 98 Quad Cab duelly he used to tow his painting business equipment all over the west coast and across the rockies. My dad's friend (who I never met but heard about) also claimed to be unhappy with the CTD towing a large 5th wheel and traided it for a DMax (the reason my dad (who owns and RV dealership) mentioned it to me). Again, the story was the same. He wanted more power to deal with hills and mountains. Got the power, but found it wasn't consistent enough and caused him frustration. He also claimed to like the ride of the DMax (both 4x4s) much better and over all improvements in towing and driveability. But this is 2nd hand at best. The rest is just stuff I've read on the towing boards (including CTD and general diesel oriented, not just DMax focused which would be suspect) or "friend of a friend".
[ QUOTE ]
The Edge juice EZ module will bring an 01' HO CTD to roughly 855 ft lbs of torque and roughly 380 HP with a bill of about $870 depending on the supplier od the module. I would like to here how a duramax (2001 rated at 300/520) can make 500/900 with just a programmer under $1000. You have my attention.
[/ QUOTE ]
This again is not my personal experience, but I believe John Kennedy (Kennedy Diesel) got right at 500 rwhp with the "200 hp" VA box. And the Hot Juice is reported (if I'm not getting this confused) around 465-475 rwhp. Of course if you don't do the exhaust and trans at these levels you will have EGT and trans issues. But that's true of the Cummins at those levels too. But it's been some time since I was reading all that on "The Diesel Place" so I could be off, but I'm pretty sure that VA box was around $800 then and coming down. The Hot Juice can be had, IIRC, for around $675 from a guy selling them below "Edge Price" on Ebay.
[ QUOTE ]
The PS and Dmax are faster out of the box( or with mild upgrades) than the cummins but....
under load i do believe the cummins is a better puller and under extreme hi perfromance mods they are the only motors that can handle the amount of power being made by some of those DHRA guys. I do agree though that like most of us that just want to do a programmer, intake, and exhaust mods...the Dmax will be faster than the cummins unless turbos, injectors, and propane/nitrous are considered because of the simple fact that the cummins bottom end can take more abuse than the Dmax probably could
[/ QUOTE ]
I do agree with most of this. But with the new turbos and injectors (among other things) I doubt the CTD will hold onto it's total dominance in DHRA much longer. I'm sure it will still be a contender, and may still dominate, but not by such a huge margine as now. Last I heard there were D/As dipping into low 12s and below (again IIRC) and that was with drugs but without the latest injectors and turbo (ATS?). No debating the bottom end strength of the 6BT though, I'll readily concede that point. But I've not heard any problems with the DMax bottom end, even turned WAY up, so I think the point is moot. The guy trying to break below 12 did window the block, but he said that was due to over-boost combined with the drugs. I do find it funny that the DMax with those "weak aluminum heads" runs at those levels with no changes but the Cummins guys have to o-ring those big iron heads to get to those levels.
And finally, just in the interest of "full disclosure", I don't claim to be an expert at these things, but I have done quite a bit or reading/research on the various focused forums (Dodge, GM, AND Ford) to develop my current opinions. My memory is not what it once was, and my numbers may not be exact, but it should be close enough for this discussion. If you want the real scoop and to eliminate the errors of my memory, I would recommend that you visit the various focused diesel board and find out what the owners and advocates say about their trucks. You'll hear lots of bad about the "other brand" on each board, but when they talk about their own problems, and "taken with a grain of salt" since they really loath to admit any weaknesses, you can find lots of good and *true* info to base your decision on. It's a trade off either way, and they each have their pro/con arguments. You just need to decide which is best for you. I would never change my decision, even if I had to pay full price, but that's me and based on what I need/want…
Burt4x4
1 Ton First Gen
I am looking at getting the Chevy/CrewCab/4x4/Duramax/Allison/Longbed/LT
Just need my wife to give me the green light
Just need my wife to give me the green light
[ QUOTE ]
I am looking at getting the Chevy/CrewCab/4x4/Duramax/Allison/Longbed/LT
Just need my wife to give me the green light
[/ QUOTE ]
If you do, I'm coming over to help yoy play with your new toy. /forums/images/graemlins/histerical.gif /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
I am looking at getting the Chevy/CrewCab/4x4/Duramax/Allison/Longbed/LT
Just need my wife to give me the green light
[/ QUOTE ]
If you do, I'm coming over to help yoy play with your new toy. /forums/images/graemlins/histerical.gif /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
BlueBlazer
1/2 ton status
- Joined
- Feb 15, 2001
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- 1,940
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By 3 speeds I was referring to an SM465. I agree with a lot of what you said, but I care about towing and an occasional sled pull, not drag racing, so when a Cummins has 1500 ft lbs of torque thats much more impressive to me than a Dmax with 700 or more HP. Different strokes for different folks I guess.
For me, I like to "hot rod" around a bit, but mostly I'm interested in towing as well. And it's the towing that makes me like the broad, flat torque curve of the DMax more so than the higher (but narrow) peak of the CTD. The fact that it makes gobs of torque at a higher rpm is the reason for the higher hp numbers, but the broad flat torque curve is the key to towing without a gear splitter and 14 forward gears (yeah, an exaggeration from the OTR trucks). But as you said, "different strokes"...
[Edit] In reference to the "1500 ft/lbs", for a comparable investment the DMax would make at least 1000+ ft/lbs across a broader range. I'll take 1000+ ft/lbs from 1800-3600 or so over 1500 ft/lbs from (guessing) 1400-1800 any day for normal light truck tow duties (and daily driver).
[Edit] In reference to the "1500 ft/lbs", for a comparable investment the DMax would make at least 1000+ ft/lbs across a broader range. I'll take 1000+ ft/lbs from 1800-3600 or so over 1500 ft/lbs from (guessing) 1400-1800 any day for normal light truck tow duties (and daily driver).
