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educate me on suspension options, beyond the 52" etc

K30Blazer

K30Blazer

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I am thinking out into the future and what will be phase three of my build. The suspension.

I am happy with my suspension currently as it serves its purpose but as the build progressed and things got serious, I realized that I would eventually need to address the suspension.

I currently have 52" up front and 56" in the rear. 5150 bilstein 14"s all around with ford shock towers up front and DIY4X in boarding in the rear. ORD shackle flip, DIY4X shackles and hanger front and rear.

I plan on a set of ORD custom springs and some better shocks and bump stops when the time permits, but not sure what direction to head in. I understand suspension from years of racing mountain bikes and why you would want bypasses etc, but for the type of trails I am doing, (basically everything) I think they might be overkill.

I have a lot of body roll right now without the sway bar and the truck although arrow straight does require full attention on the road.

What I would like to accomplish is:

super supple over small to medium size (think sand blasting and rough fire roads)
flexy and good articulation
reliable, dependable, rebuildable
big hit protection
able to carry my family of 5, our camping gear for a week
tow a trailer
good road manners (my wife would feel comfortable driving)
increase gas mileage (just kidding, gonna see who reads this far lol)


thanks
 
4wheelinfury said:
I am thinking out into the future and what will be phase three of my build. The suspension.

I am happy with my suspension currently as it serves its purpose but as the build progressed and things got serious, I realized that I would eventually need to address the suspension.

I currently have 52" up front and 56" in the rear. 5150 bilstein 14"s all around with ford shock towers up front and DIY4X in boarding in the rear. ORD shackle flip, DIY4X shackles and hanger front and rear.

I plan on a set of ORD custom springs and some better shocks and bump stops when the time permits, but not sure what direction to head in. I understand suspension from years of racing mountain bikes and why you would want bypasses etc, but for the type of trails I am doing, (basically everything) I think they might be overkill.

I have a lot of body roll right now without the sway bar and the truck although arrow straight does require full attention on the road.

What I would like to accomplish is:

super supple over small to medium size (think sand blasting and rough fire roads)
flexy and good articulation
reliable, dependable, rebuildable
big hit protection
able to carry my family of 5, our camping gear for a week
tow a trailer
good road manners (my wife would feel comfortable driving)
increase gas mileage (just kidding, gonna see who reads this far lol)


thanks
Click to expand...
K5 and a family of 5 sounds full.
And sketchy towing
Built 6.2 burban :saweet:
 
Yes 52s are known to be kinda sketchy in the front.

I think better springs can be had with some sacrifice to flex.

I've wondered if 56s in tbe front would be a better ride?
 
Buy and install the ORD springs if that's your plan. If you still don't like the stability add sway bar(s).
 
82355 said:
Is your wife comfortable driving it right now?

Martin
Click to expand...


Nope. It is a handful. I can drive it just fine but you have to anticipate a lot. ORD springs and bump stops are the first order of business. I have easy inches so will incorporate that into the spring design and prob go up an inch in height for rub etc. I need to understand the benefits and drawbacks to the shock options available to us.

And towing with 5 won't be an issue. My truck with the LS swap prob puts out about 450 with josh tune.
 
I think it depends on what your towing. If youre towing a car trailer with a vehicle on it and 5 people its going to tow like dog shit. Thats not a hp thing its a length and weight thing. Im thinking youre talking about a small camping surplus trailer like the military "short bed" size trailers? That wouldn't be an issue.

I would look into the fox 2.0 series...I think thats what they're called. Basically coilover but no coil. I helped install some and its night and day between a bilstien or comparible.
 
Hey James, So when I had my Camo Blazer I put custom Deaver leaf springs on it front and rear with a shackle flip but left them the stock length 47/52 because it was before the 52 front swap became so popular. Honestly I think the 52'' springs up front are what are hurting you the most, while they might be great for articulation for a stock spring they suck for road manners on a long distance highway driver plus they can cause axle wrap and my Deavers delivered more flex then the shocks could handle in the 47'' length. The 52'' option is really only great if you're only rock crawling and trying to save money on not going custom springs, this is something that I've also heard from ORD when it comes to ordering their custom leaf springs. The rear 56" springs are probably fine except for your inboarded shocks. Any go fast guy will tell you that the shocks need to be more vertical and moved further out to help with stability plus properly valved depending on the angel you set them at. You could keep the 56" length and go with ORD springs.

I think you have two options depending on how much you wanna spend. One is go with custom leaf springs front and rear and a good properly valved shock and then if its still has to much sway look at adding a custom anti rock swaybar.
Two is open up that wallet and build/buy a front coilover setup and never look back! You could probably go coilovers in the back too if you really wanna go big.

Not sure if you ever saw my 2004 Tacoma witch I had after the Blazer but it had a solid front axle with dual rate coilovers and oh my did it handle everything WAY better then the blazer both in the whoops and in the rocks but without the cool factor of an old American vehicle. Thats why I'm back!!!
 
2 schools of thought here.

1. The leaf spring route. Simple, effective, simple.

2. The linked route. Complicated and expensive but overall better in pretty much every way. Except simplicity and cost.

There is one problem though with some of the advice. Tunable shocks don't give a crap what angle they are at. You can increase or decrease valving in a tuneable shock. It might be harder to figure out the tuning with them at a severe angle but you can make the stiffer. A non tuneable shock loses effectiveness as soon as it is angled. The more severe the angle the less effective it is.

Tuning shocks is also a learning curve. I bet 80% of folks out there with revalvable shocks don't have them dailed in.

If you want the best of all worlds well its time for a sway bar. Be it a torsion style or a stock style there is very little that will improve handling ( not ride quality but the actual speed at which you can go around corners) more than a sway bar.

If you think 52s are squishy go find a lifted Cherokee with no swaybar and drive it.

My goals with my Jimmy sound like what your trying to accomplish. It will be a linked front end with coil springs and 63" leafs out back. Eventually. And it will have a swaybar
 
blazinzuk said:
2 schools of thought here.

1. The leaf spring route. Simple, effective, simple.

2. The linked route. Complicated and expensive but overall better in pretty much every way. Except simplicity and cost.

There is one problem though with some of the advice. Tunable shocks don't give a crap what angle they are at. You can increase or decrease valving in a tuneable shock. It might be harder to figure out the tuning with them at a severe angle but you can make the stiffer. A non tuneable shock loses effectiveness as soon as it is angled. The more severe the angle the less effective it is.

Tuning shocks is also a learning curve. I bet 80% of folks out there with revalvable shocks don't have them dailed in.

If you want the best of all worlds well its time for a sway bar. Be it a torsion style or a stock style there is very little that will improve handling ( not ride quality but the actual speed at which you can go around corners) more than a sway bar.

If you think 52s are squishy go find a lifted Cherokee with no swaybar and drive it.

My goals with my Jimmy sound like what your trying to accomplish. It will be a linked front end with coil springs and 63" leafs out back. Eventually. And it will have a swaybar
Click to expand...

True about tuning your shocks correctly I was only trying to give the easy answer when it comes to placement of the shocks. In my book it's gonna be a lot easier to tune the shocks if they are placed further out and more vertical. If you look at where he has his rear shocks now and the angle they are at you can see why the non valvable shocks aren't doing there job correctly. Yeah you could put a set of tunable shocks in the same place but why would you want to go through the headache of trying to get them tuned right in that location.
 
camok5 said:
Yeah you could put a set of tunable shocks in the same place but why would you want to go through the headache of trying to get them tuned right in that location.
Click to expand...

Isn't the only other option to punch them up into the passenger area? That's at odds with the desire to carry family and gear. Unless you just deal with the flex you can get with 12" shocks or so in the factory spot. Or, do like all the Jeeps and let the shock hang below the axle...
 
yea, my rear shock placement isn't ideal right now. In regards to towing, I will be towing a M1101 trailer with camping equip on it. 3k max. Not too worried about it. I don't want to link it, I want to stick with leafs and I will be going with ORD. I guess my question at this point is more about the shock options. Sounds like the Raptor take offs are a good deal and adding some bumpstops seems to be a no brainer. I will be fixing the rear spring location and probably getting rid of the ford shock towers and going with some sort of hoop to get great angles.

Bottom line, this truck is designed to drive me to baja, moab and all areas in between and then run the trails when I get there with all my shite in tow. I know it is a lot to ask for from one vehicle, but I think it is totally possible.
 
It's simple then. Get the springs. Buy the best shocks you can afford. Get air bumps, get a swaybar attach. Enjoy!
 
Mastiff said:
Does someone make sway bars for us, that work with crossover?
Click to expand...

Um no. Gotta do something custom

I have never really looked at it too hard.

I think 52s handle perfectly fine. Yes a bit soft but not unpredictable or anything.

I really think in all this the one thing that gets constantly over looked is the caster change.

I have done the cut and rotate on a couple rigs. It's makes a big difference. I think to really make a best of all worlds truck the front axle pinion angle and caster needs addressing. But that is a time consuming process and can be very scary ( it's not that hard to do) cause you can screw it up.
 
There's also those torsion bear thingies that jeeps and ultra 4 guys use. That's really the way to go but will more than likely require some fabbing up.
 
You have the same ambition for your truck as i have on mine.

Links and 63's on the rear air bumps on all 4 corners is my plan! I hope to pull 14 inches of travel to match the front.
 
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