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Exhaust manifold bolts - and how to reinstall Power steering pump pulley

dhcomp

dhcomp

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Ok, so my blazer had a broken exhaust manifold bolt. Hence the ticking i've been hearing for the last 100k :doah:

So i think maybe i'll replace it, go to pull another bolt to check size, and it breaks :mad:.

It was the bolt, not stud, so i couldn't really have put pbblaster on it. I've been soaking everything i can get to for a few days.

At this point, i figure i want to fix this problem, but need to remove the manifolds, and commit to the project, cause i could possibly break every bolt :(

My plan is to center drill the broken ones w/ the manifold on as a guide (with a raised point bit, or whatever they are called) to make sure i hit the center when i try to extract them. Besides being patient, and soaking the broken's with pbblaster, and other suggestions? I was told to go tighter just a little before trying to remove the bolts. Should i replace the bolts with grade 8, or 5? Any reason to not go grade 8? Should the 2 studs on each side be replaced if they don't break? If so, should i replace with studs(will kragen have them?), or is it ok to just replace with bolts?

Thanks for all the help guys, plan to tear into this this weekend.....cross your fingers i don't break too many bolts.
 
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I'm assuming the bolts (hopefully) didn't break off flush with the head mating surface?

If not, my choice would be to remove the manifold, and either weld a nut to the remaining stud to turn it out, or try vise grips. Welding has the added benefit of super-heating the bolt, which MAY help break the bond between the bolt and head.

Drilling would be my last resort. You have to be really careful with manifolds, the bolt holes don't usually line up as they age, very real possibility the drill would be off.

I really don't have much faith in the extractors, they seem to break off just as frequently, if not moreso, than they work. At least from what people on here seem to experience with them.
 
The 2 that are already broken are more or less flush with the mating surface.

How else would you try to get them out besides extractors? I'm going to soak the **** out of everything with PB blaster once i get the manifolds off.

Would it be worth it to cut the bolt heads off rather than risk breaking them at the surface? If i did that, i woudl then be able to soak the hell out of them with PB, and then try to remove them as a stud with a stud puller or vice grips or whatever. Maybe welded nuts. Does that make sense at all? Think its a bad idea?
 
Tough call. :)

Lots of work if they WOULD just turn out, but also a lot of work if they break off flush.

I'd like to hear from some other folks. Wonder if it's possible to weld a nut on even though they are flush, through the center of the nut?

Not only do the "internal" extractors seem to break off, I think the design itself is somewhat flawed. For a bolt that is already stuck, an extractor is going to force the bolt to expand even more, which I doubt helps removal. I bet the extractors are real handy for bolts that aren't frozen in place.

Like I said, others I'm sure have dealt with this, I'd wait to hear from them. I've been lucky, only broken exhaust bolts I've had to deal with are the manifold to exhaust pipe, and those are pretty easy with an oxy-acetylene torch to remove.
 
My 2 broken bolts and leaking manifolds aren't sounding too bad when i think wtf i'm going to do when i break more of them. I've got to commit to this project, or it's not worth doing.
 
I hear ya. I'm surprised I haven't run into the same issue, the few GM motors I've torn down, never had a manifold to head bolt break. Perhaps its just a matter of time and I've just been lucky.

I know you aren't the only one that's dealt with this, there has to be a "right" way that's worked for someone before and is foolproof!
 
Yah, thats what i am thinking. Maybe i just tried a bad one, but im guessing it won't be the only one to break.
 
I know it sounds like a lot of work, but by the time you mess with trying to drill and use an ez out on several, if not all of the bolts, it may be easier to pull the head. just something to ponder.
 
hm, that is something to ponder. I've never gotten that envolved on a motor though, would prefer to do it first on not my DD, but i guess my other truck is driveable (but expensive), so i can drive that. But Really good point, hadn't thought of that.

And really, if i pulled the head, what more would be envolved? Replace the head gasket, retorque the heads? Maybe drain the oil or coolant first? I'd really like to not drain the coolant if possible....maybe just change the oil after to get rid of any coolant that got in there.

Anyone else have comments on this?
 
I have done a few manifolds at our exhaust shop. Just today I pulled a manifold off and one bolt was broken prior to us working on it. It was also flush with the head.

If it was my truck I would take a wrench to those bolts. If they break loose thats great, if they snap oh well. You won't get anything fixed sitting there and staring at the motor all day. Most of the time the bolts are rusted inside the manifolds, not the head, especially if they are old and the manifold is warped. Pull the manifold off and see how much bolt is sticking out. Sometimes you can spin them out if the bolts aren't bottomed out otherwise more action is needed.

One tool I have come to love. At auto zone they have some bolt extractors made by Irwin. Try them if you don't have a welder. THey are actually cheap too and work awesome. I never would have believed it. They tighten on the bolt the harder you turn them. If they are broken flush with the head try welding a nut that is smaller then the bolt, like a 5/16. While the nut is red hot break it loose. It may take a couple tries. Thats what we did today. Also the bolts are 3/8, you need at least a grade 5 bolt, anything less will break off when tightening it down to compress the new gaskets if you use them, which I would on an old manifold. Hope this helps.
 
Head swaps can get pricey. Money no object? If not, go for it! Great excuse, right? :)

Seriously, you could probably get replacement heads done up for around $400, head gaskets for 40+, new valve cover gaskets, intake gaskets, thats about it, right?
 
dyeager535 said:
Head swaps can get pricey. Money no object? If not, go for it! Great excuse, right? :)

Seriously, you could probably get replacement heads done up for around $400, head gaskets for 40+, new valve cover gaskets, intake gaskets, thats about it, right?
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you don't need to replace the heads, just take it off to make it more easy to remove the broken bolts! You could have the head off in about an hour.
 
Yah, no one suggested replacing the heads, just removing them to drill out the broken bolts on the bench. My first post was stupid though, i now remember i have to remove the intake manifold, etc first before i can remove the heads. Never have gotten that far into a motor before, which makes me nervous on this truck. But like was said, looking at them isnt' going to make them come out.....so i guess i better start into it!
 
I find the spiral extractrors break easy. The tapered square ones are a lot tougher, and don't exert that much outward pressure if they're sharp and or new.

The welding a nut onto the end of the broken bolt so rarely works I never bother anymore. Worse yet, by having the stuck bolt really hot you've expanded it making it more stuck. Try and spin it out when it's still red and it just twists off the welded nut. heating the head around the stuck bolt is risky too, as the cast iron does not do well with localized heating. There is a good chance of cracking the head doing that.

For a 3/8" bolt I'd grind the remains flush if there isn't enough to grab onto anyways, center punch it as best you can and drill a 1/4" hole down the center of the stuck bolt. Then tap in a new and or sharp tapered square extractor and spin it out. Don't forget, there is no more torque on the broken bolt, and the inside of the threads on the head aren't rusty and scaly like the manifold itself. I think you'll find they actually spin out pretty easy with the manifold removed.

Rene
 
After grinding/filing the remaining bolt shank to a flat surface, and centerpunch, sometimes a lefthand twist drill bit will bring it out.
I've tried this technique a couple of times, and it did not work. Had to resort to "Easy-out"s, which by the way, saved my whole "G**D***" rear axle.:wink1:
 
I'm also considering cutting a slot and trying a flat head screwdriver. Much less likely to break off in the bolt vs. a "no so" easy out
 
Ok, so i sack'd up, and started.

Really scared to break bolts, i started on the passenger side. Put my 9/16's on the first bolt, and started tapping it with a hammer, tight, loose, tight, loose, etc. Then i put the ratchet on there, and went easy. Somehow, i managed to not break anymore of those bolts! Some of the manifold to y pipe bolts broke, but i experienced that on my burb recently, so i expected it. Was able to remove the one i broke with a 1/4 bit and easy out. The studs came out of the rest, so i just need to break the nuts loose and reinstall the studs.

Stupid drivers side, i had to remove the Power steering pump and crap first. Pulley required the special puller, and damn, i thought it was gonna break before that thing let loose. Removed pulley, removed bracket, removed brace, removed manifold. No more broken bolts here either.

So at that point, i had 2 broken's from before, front Passenger, rear driver. I gave up the original idea of center drilling the bolts wiht the manifolds on there, cause teh bolt is 3/8 and the hole is practially 1/2", so no way that would help me hit center.

I tried to punch the center of the bolt, which went fine, but then i couldnt' get a drill in there. Just not enough clearance. So i decided to try the dremmel, since the bolt was broken flush, and i cut a slot. After lots of PB, i was able to back that broken out with a flat head screw driver.

The remaining one, back drivers side, is going to be a PAIN. I can barely get a tap handle in there, let alone a drill. It is broken off about 1/8" INSIDE the head. I'm really temped to just leave it, install everything with gaskets (there weren't any factory, were there supposed to be?) and hope it doesn't leak....but i really don't want to half ass it. Only real option is to get a right angle drill in a day or 2, and try and do the easy out thing. If it gets f'd up, i'll probably just leave it.

Now, besides that, i need to figure out how to get the Power steering pulley back on. From what i've read, they give you soem sort of tool that threads down the shaft when you buy a new pump....cept i don't need to replace my pump. Is the center of the shaft threaded? Could i find a way to press the pulley back on with a washer and the correct bolt? It was a REALLY tight press fit.

Thanks for all the help guys!
 
dhcomp said:
Ok, so i sack'd up, and started.

Really scared to break bolts, i started on the passenger side. Put my 9/16's on the first bolt, and started tapping it with a hammer, tight, loose, tight, loose, etc. Then i put the ratchet on there, and went easy. Somehow, i managed to not break anymore of those bolts! Some of the manifold to y pipe bolts broke, but i experienced that on my burb recently, so i expected it. Was able to remove the one i broke with a 1/4 bit and easy out. The studs came out of the rest, so i just need to break the nuts loose and reinstall the studs.

Stupid drivers side, i had to remove the Power steering pump and crap first. Pulley required the special puller, and damn, i thought it was gonna break before that thing let loose. Removed pulley, removed bracket, removed brace, removed manifold. No more broken bolts here either.

So at that point, i had 2 broken's from before, front Passenger, rear driver. I gave up the original idea of center drilling the bolts wiht the manifolds on there, cause teh bolt is 3/8 and the hole is practially 1/2", so no way that would help me hit center.

I tried to punch the center of the bolt, which went fine, but then i couldnt' get a drill in there. Just not enough clearance. So i decided to try the dremmel, since the bolt was broken flush, and i cut a slot. After lots of PB, i was able to back that broken out with a flat head screw driver.

The remaining one, back drivers side, is going to be a PAIN. I can barely get a tap handle in there, let alone a drill. It is broken off about 1/8" INSIDE the head. I'm really temped to just leave it, install everything with gaskets (there weren't any factory, were there supposed to be?) and hope it doesn't leak....but i really don't want to half ass it. Only real option is to get a right angle drill in a day or 2, and try and do the easy out thing. If it gets f'd up, i'll probably just leave it.

Now, besides that, i need to figure out how to get the Power steering pulley back on. From what i've read, they give you soem sort of tool that threads down the shaft when you buy a new pump....cept i don't need to replace my pump. Is the center of the shaft threaded? Could i find a way to press the pulley back on with a washer and the correct bolt? It was a REALLY tight press fit.

Thanks for all the help guys!
Click to expand...
I think you can rent a puller/installer from AutoZone. No, do not try to "press" it on. You'll crush to resevoir.
 
ok im missing something here....after going out and looking at my truck im trying to figure out why you took the pulley off the power steering pump in the first place and didnt just unbolt it from the head
 
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