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F.A.S.T. - Fuel Air Spark Technology EFI/TBI systems??

Greg72

Greg72

@MIGHTASWELLK5
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Anyone here using one, or know more about these setups?

www.fuelairspark.com


I saw an article in the latest SuperChevy (Aug 2007) that reminded me about this company....and to be honest, some of the screenshots of the software were amazing. LOTS of adjustability and tunability....I'm just not sure if it's everything it appears to be.

Obviously, they do a lot of stuff with the newer "computer controlled" motors and build products to retrofit them into earlier non-computer cars.

What I'm most interested in is the TBI system they offer, and how it might compare to a Holley Commander system? It looks like the F.A.S.T. stuff is more of a piecemeal solution (buy a throttle body, buy a controller, buy a fuel pump, etc) so the costs may end up being a lot more than the ~$1500 or so for the Holley system.


Discuss, Debate, Deliberate....



:usaflag:
 
There is much discussion on the F.A.S.T. card on the bike forum I am on. Not sure if it has changed, but the the F.A.S.T. card used to be able to only add fuel, not subtract it.

This being said, unless a motor is running lean across the board it is not of much use if you have to lean out places of the fuel curve.

A few individuals swear it is the cats meow, but only a few.

I know nothing of the Holley system is it like the power commander?

I run a Power Commander and Wide Band commander on my bike, which data logs my A/F in real time, which in turn gets downloaded to a P.C. and then can be tuned for a optimal A/F mixture and then loaded back onto the bike. The major flaw is that it is only adjusted for the current conditions at the time, altitude, humidity etc., will effect the settings from one day to another.

There is a company called Bazzaz that came out with a system that automatically adjusts for you. (this is slightly different then what one would think a O2 sensor does) these systems are super fast in their readings and adjustments.

I admit that I am far from an expert, but I am familiar with my system and how mine works. I had no desire to go with the TIF.
 
The systems do a LOT.... take a quick look at the web link.

Features are similar to the Holley Commander system I'm also considering...but the menus and some of the "add ons" look a lot nicer than the Holley stuff. From what I've been able to find on pricing, the F.A.S.T. looks like it will be substantially more expensive to put together than the Commander system... :thinking:
 
Greg, call Dave's Engine Machine if you want to know all about that system. He has a friend who tunes nothing but the F.A.S.T system. You're right about the cost though, IIRC it is about 5K when you're all done.
 
Big91RustyBucket said:
Look's very intersting to me. I wonder what you would spend on everything for it.

It look's like just the computer and stuff is $2,196 Ouch.
Click to expand...


Where did you find prices? All I can find on the website (and downloadable catalog) is the part numbers... :dunno:
 
Holley Commander is junk compared to FAST and Accel DFI Gen7. I never liked tuning the Commander. It lacked some features the others have and it has no wide band o2 ability like the other two. I purchased a new Gen7 for $1000 from another board and it came with harness and sensors. They sell nice 8 injector throttle bodies for $600 that would fit on any $200 manifold. Or you can just add the injector bungs to most manifolds on the market these days and just get standard 1000cfm throttle body for about $500. Unfortunately the aftermarket EFI stuff is not cheap like the stock EFI systems.

If you want to talk to a shop thats done many of these systems, talk to Jay or Justin at The Carbuertor Shop (they do EFI too).
http://www.thecarburetorshop.net/
They can fill you on more details. This is where I get my dyno tuning done and Jay helped me dial in the Commander from the last 496.
 
I just thought I would mention that I did my Megasquirt TPI with wideband for hundreds of dollars, not thousands. EVERYTHING is tuneable. The low cost is what first got me interested, but now I can't imagine installing a system that wouldn't let me change anything I wanted at will.
 
I guess I need to read up on the newer EFI stuff. I didn't know Holley has a wide band option now. Still don't care for the Holley interface compared to the ones I've seen.

I've seen the MegaSquirt stuff but never known of anyone that runs one yet. Does it have a wide band option? Do you still have to build them or do they have pre-built units?
 
Another lower cost option would appear to be the EBL that Southerspeed is running. He'll let us know. :)

Assuming this is a large motor with big fuel demands, EBL will probably do everything you need it to do.

It will run 4 injectors (well, probably 8 depending on how you wire it up) so if available, you could run a 4 injector Throttle Body, using pretty much stock GM stuff otherwise.
 
Shawn said:
I guess I need to read up on the newer EFI stuff. I didn't know Holley has a wide band option now. Still don't care for the Holley interface compared to the ones I've seen.

I've seen the MegaSquirt stuff but never known of anyone that runs one yet. Does it have a wide band option? Do you still have to build them or do they have pre-built units?
Click to expand...

Mega Squirt does have prebuilt units for sale and they can do wide band as well.
Someone on another forum did one of these and said it was the easiest thing he'd done in a while. But he's electronics tech....
George
 
I have several friends that run the FAST system. I also have a freind that works there. Comp Cams owns FAST & they are here in Memphis. From what I have seen there is no engine you can;t run w/ the FAST ECM. If your engine makes no vacuum, you can run it in Alpha N mode, & it calculates fuel off the throttle postion sensor. Iy will work w/ any firing order. It does a lot of cool stuff. I would recommend calling the tech line at FAST. After hearing them talk about it, I think you would be sold.

It would cost big bucks though, due to having to piece it together. $2100 is about right on the price.

I would say if you wanted to run a tbi the FAST would be a waste, I think it is better set up to run a non batch fire 8 injectore type system.

I have been dreaming of welding injectore bungs into my caddy intake & running a fast system too.
 
boz42 said:
I have several friends that run the FAST system. I also have a freind that works there. Comp Cams owns FAST & they are here in Memphis. From what I have seen there is no engine you can;t run w/ the FAST ECM. If your engine makes no vacuum, you can run it in Alpha N mode, & it calculates fuel off the throttle postion sensor. Iy will work w/ any firing order. It does a lot of cool stuff. I would recommend calling the tech line at FAST. After hearing them talk about it, I think you would be sold.

It would cost big bucks though, due to having to piece it together. $2100 is about right on the price.

I would say if you wanted to run a tbi the FAST would be a waste, I think it is better set up to run a non batch fire 8 injectore type system.

I have been dreaming of welding injectore bungs into my caddy intake & running a fast system too.
Click to expand...

yeah it is 2196 plus all the other stuff. that jsut get's you the computer pretty much .
 
boz42 said:
I have several friends that run the FAST system. I also have a freind that works there. Comp Cams owns FAST & they are here in Memphis. From what I have seen there is no engine you can;t run w/ the FAST ECM. If your engine makes no vacuum, you can run it in Alpha N mode, & it calculates fuel off the throttle postion sensor. Iy will work w/ any firing order. It does a lot of cool stuff. I would recommend calling the tech line at FAST. After hearing them talk about it, I think you would be sold.

It would cost big bucks though, due to having to piece it together. $2100 is about right on the price.

I would say if you wanted to run a tbi the FAST would be a waste, I think it is better set up to run a non batch fire 8 injectore type system.

I have been dreaming of welding injectore bungs into my caddy intake & running a fast system too.
Click to expand...


Called the Tech Line at F.A.S.T. today....

The guy I spoke to said around $4800 for a complete system. Maybe a few hundred cheaper if I shop it around with the various dealers.

I'm only interested in a TBI setup from an aesthetics perspective. I refuse to have modern fuel rails on what will otherwise look like a vintage Chevy BBC in the engine bay. I can disguise the 502 to "look" like a 396... and a TBI system looks close enough to a simple 4-barrel carb that most people wouldn't even notice.....

The F.A.S.T. system seems to really have a lot of nice features, like the ability to completely jettison the normal dizzy, and allow their system to control the spark and ignition timing completely....VERY slick.

$4800 is a big chunk of change, however. And that represents about 20 different part numbers (by their own admission) so the complexity of the entire system is probably going to be significant. Once I complete the physical installation, the software doesn't scare me a bit....that's kind of my "thing" so to speak. It will just be a matter of knowing what my targets should be, and then spending some quality time with a laptop to get all my transitions and other sensors smoothed-out and dialed in properly.

Damn, why does the sexiest stuff always have to be so expensive? :thinking:



:usaflag:
 
Big91RustyBucket said:
So when you plan to pull the trigger?
Click to expand...

I was pretty disappointed with the particular "tech guy" I got on the phone today.... he was able to throw out the $4800 price easily, but couldn't (or wouldn't) provide part numbers for the items that I'd need to buy to put that system together.... almost like he was on commission and didn't want me to order it from someone else??? :dunno:

For that kind of money, you can bet that I'm going to have a thorough understanding of what I'm getting.....what parts are involved, and what benefit each part is providing. I will pick-and-choose the options based on my particular needs/desires....not just buy a package from some guy who spent 2 minutes on a phone call sizing me up. He suggested that I buy their $35 DVD to learn more about their products and EFI systems......huh? Pay YOU to learn about products that you want ME to buy?? Seems a little backwards doesn't it? :D

I don't suppose you have a "direct" contact there? Someone who is a bit more concerned about helping me figure out what I really need....??

If I need to spend $4800 to get what I want, I'll do that..... I think most people around here know that about me. I'm willing to pay good money for quality parts...but I need to really understand what I'm buying.

The Holley Commander is a $2000 solution.....F.A.S.T. is more than twice that price. I'd like someone "in the know" to give me the pitch on what I'm really getting for all that extra scratch....


:usaflag:
 
4X4HIGH said:
Well you know Greg, the cheap hookers aren't sexy. :haha:
Click to expand...

Even a hooker at (only) $2000 should be sexy......at $4800, well....I don't even KNOW what should be involved.

:D
 
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