Greg, i might be able to get you a GOOD contact name to talk with or maybe even what components you would be getting for your money. I'll see what i can do tomorrow.
CK5
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F.A.S.T. - Fuel Air Spark Technology EFI/TBI systems??
- Thread starter Greg72
- Start date
4X4HIGH said:
Thanks bro! Add that to my "tab" of favors I already owe you.....
Greg72 said:I don't suppose you have a "direct" contact there? Someone who is a bit more concerned about helping me figure out what I really need....??
My friend at FAST does not do sales. He is also out of town this week. He is the guy that helped me on the fabrication on my K5. He is more into the tuning & research side of it. I know he has personnally installed & tuned many FAST systems on several different makes. When he gets back in town, next week I can ask him if he would mind speaking to you. I don't know if he would prefer e-mail or the phone as he stays pretty busy. He is very knowledgable on the topoc. I will warn you though, he is bias towards FAST, & he will make you want one.
PM me next week if you would like to talk to him & I will ask him if it is alright. I would like to see someone here run one, so I can here a totally unbias opinion.
boz42 said:
For anywhere near $4800, if ANY customer wasn't 100% satisfied they should be out of business!
They obviously think highly enough of their system to charge that much.
Hmm. That sounds like Megasquirt, except that the computer costs $134-$410, depending on options and whether or not it is pre-assembled/tested. You can configure it to work with whatever sensors you want and almost any ignition system you want (Ford EDIS and GM HEI are the most popular). Get your tach from the dizzy or from a crank sensor - whatever you want. Change it all later if you want.boz42 said:
You will have to tune it no matter what, but some of that is automatic now. Autotune tweaks the fuel table while you drive (laptop required) or Automatic Mixture Correction slowly changes the fuel table, all internal to the ECU.
Big91RustyBucket
1/2 ton status
How hard is megasquirt to tune , and what is total cost involved in it ?
The EBL is certainly a good cheap consideration but with a big motor you're going to need a tricked up TB or run 2 TBs on a modded dual 4bbl manifold. Have a look at www.dynamicefi.com or see some of my posts in the Injection section. There's also loads of info at www.thirdgen.org under the DIY prom board in the 'tuning with EBL' thread.dyeager535 said:Another lower cost option would appear to be the EBL that Southerspeed is running. He'll let us know.
Assuming this is a large motor with big fuel demands, EBL will probably do everything you need it to do.
It will run 4 injectors (well, probably 8 depending on how you wire it up) so if available, you could run a 4 injector Throttle Body, using pretty much stock GM stuff otherwise.
Yeah, I saw the mention of dual throttle bodies on the website, twin two barrel TBI's could be pretty cool looking on an olde rmotor, reminiscient of the older multi-carb setups. (THAT would get expensive I suspect)
Used TBs on an Edelbrock dual quad with adapters. Other than the manifold I would've thought it was all pretty reasonable?dyeager535 said:
I was thinking along the lines of some fancy throttle bodies. Intake and the throttle bodies would be the expense in that, if you went used, you are right, shouldn't be that expensive.
Dual small block throttle bodies I would *think* would be enough for quite a large motor.
Dual small block throttle bodies I would *think* would be enough for quite a large motor.
What about running a more conventional 4-barrel throttle body?
Something like the ones on this link:
http://www.compperformancegroupstores.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=FS&Category_Code=LSX-TB
The 4150 supposedly flows up to 1350CFM
The 4500 supposedly flows up to 2000CFM
As long as you could put big enough injectors on it, that seems like more than enough flow potential for the 502. I think initially I only really was expecting to need maybe 900 - 950CFM, if even that much.
Something like the ones on this link:
http://www.compperformancegroupstores.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=FS&Category_Code=LSX-TB
The 4150 supposedly flows up to 1350CFM
The 4500 supposedly flows up to 2000CFM
As long as you could put big enough injectors on it, that seems like more than enough flow potential for the 502. I think initially I only really was expecting to need maybe 900 - 950CFM, if even that much.
$730 seems a lot but it looks very puuurty! Wonder if it would bolt up to a square bore manifold??Greg72 said:What about running a more conventional 4-barrel throttle body?
Something like the ones on this link:
http://www.compperformancegroupstores.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=FS&Category_Code=LSX-TB
The 4150 supposedly flows up to 1350CFM
The 4500 supposedly flows up to 2000CFM
As long as you could put big enough injectors on it, that seems like more than enough flow potential for the 502. I think initially I only really was expecting to need maybe 900 - 950CFM, if even that much.
Just looked again, they're not TBI are they? Look like port injection type unless you need to buy an injector housing too??
Guess you'd need one of these as well then!! Getting expensive that way!
The "total cost" can be almost anything. You have to decide what kind of setup you want and whatever you can get these parts for that's your cost. It's DIY. The cost-effective way is to use a factory FI setup from the junkyard. Then rework the harness to mate to the MS controller. Maybe you need a fuel pump, lines, tank. Add in a wideband O2 for easier tuning and better operation.
You can't buy a bolt-on MS kit in the mail with intake manifold, injectors, sensors, etc. But factory parts are easier to replace anyway.
You can't buy a bolt-on MS kit in the mail with intake manifold, injectors, sensors, etc. But factory parts are easier to replace anyway.
SS,
Yeah my bad.....those two throttle bodies don't have any injectors, just air. Don't want to run the fuel rails for aesthetic reasons.
Blue85,
I am looking into the MegaSquirt systems and the EBL systems too... believe me, I'm trying NOT to spend $4800 on a fuel delivery system!!!! As a last resort, I can always still go back to the Holley Commander system that I'd originally considered.... it's pricier than the DIY stuff, but makes my life simpler by giving me a pre-engineered solution. At around $1600 it's easier to handle than the F.A.S.T. stuff also...
So many options....
Yeah my bad.....those two throttle bodies don't have any injectors, just air. Don't want to run the fuel rails for aesthetic reasons.
Blue85,
I am looking into the MegaSquirt systems and the EBL systems too... believe me, I'm trying NOT to spend $4800 on a fuel delivery system!!!! As a last resort, I can always still go back to the Holley Commander system that I'd originally considered.... it's pricier than the DIY stuff, but makes my life simpler by giving me a pre-engineered solution. At around $1600 it's easier to handle than the F.A.S.T. stuff also...
So many options....
I've said it many times before, but at the risk of boring everyone, the user friendliness of EBL is going to be hard to match in such a tuneable system.Greg72 said:SS,
Yeah my bad.....those two throttle bodies don't have any injectors, just air. Don't want to run the fuel rails for aesthetic reasons.
Blue85,
I am looking into the MegaSquirt systems and the EBL systems too... believe me, I'm trying NOT to spend $4800 on a fuel delivery system!!!! As a last resort, I can always still go back to the Holley Commander system that I'd originally considered.... it's pricier than the DIY stuff, but makes my life simpler by giving me a pre-engineered solution. At around $1600 it's easier to handle than the F.A.S.T. stuff also...
So many options....
For basic fueling you literally just drive (and if you have an emulator) load the new 'learnt' fuel tables. Do that a few times (50+mile drives), sit down with a beer and 'smooth' the table out a bit and your fueling is pretty much taken care of. Obviously there are numerous other tuneable functions that with a hot motor will need tweaking but it's all pretty straight forward, and cheap!
And no...I'm not on their payroll...I just like their system!
OK "drive" implies that the system is close to being tuned to begin with. For standard engines, it's fine to use pre-made tables as a starting point. What if you build a "non-standard" engine for racing or something? Do they sit down with software to calculate everything and send you the starting file? How do they "automatically" tune the timing?southernspeed said:For basic fueling you literally just drive (and if you have an emulator) load the new 'learnt' fuel tables.
It comes with a basic 3rd gen Camaro map. You put it into learn mode and run the engine. Keep it alive on the throttle for a minute or two. Now load that 'learnt' table into your emulator. It'll now run good enough to idle, then you can start covering other areas of the fuel map. Obviously, if your motor is so wild it won't even run long enough to get a learn you'll have to just open the fuel table and raise the numbers a little and try again, all very easy to do. It comes with a basic and conservative spark table and adder tables. Once you start getting a handle on the fuel table and it's running good with good BLMs across the board you can start messing with the spark tables. I barely touched my spark tables though. You can also use the EBL for nitros triggering, idle bump for OBA or welder, shift light, even an AE warning light to try for some fuel economy!Blue85 said:
Blue85 said:
HAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!!!!
Yer my boy Blue! You made me laugh.
$4800 includes neither the vehicle, nor the engine....those are thousands of dollars each on their own.
I really need to switch to heroin so that I can start spending less on my hobbies...
