Not a Fitech-Now a Sniper 2 and boat anchor

[Hosalabad]

Alright here goes:

Truck details 1974 K5, some kind of emissions crippled EFI 305 with a carb swapped on. It had the old exhaust JBbooger welded up to manifolds that had O2 sensors. Quadrajet 1920 spread bore carb and intake.

I picked up the base system and a Fuel Command Center. OGD in the back right for scale.


Fuel Command Center

TBI and programmer.


Here's where it went:



Edelbrock 1902. I dicked with it for a while and got it to start, but then it was falling down at about 2000 rpms. Being soaked with righ gas exhaust and poor starting when the weather changed pushed me to make the jump. Hopefully later on I can pick up a built motor.




The plan going in was to install the FCC on the driver's side of the radiator and move the charcoal canister down below it.




As I know little about carbs I was pretty surprised when I pulled it off and discovered the spread bore intake. Off to Summit for a spacer. I had it the next day as it shipped from their Georgia location.



Spacer installed, nice piece came with screws and studs and nuts.



Dropped the TBI unit on and started laying out the harness. One set is mains power, red, and orange to power the FCC (or any other fuel pump choice). There was enough length in the harness to reach my underhood fuse block by the battery and the other way all the way around to the FCC using the flex loom for the headlights/wipers etc.


FCC installed. Comes with two brackets. I had to shim the lower one 1/4" to get it level on the core support.




Looking down from the front edge, it just tucks under the factory wires.


Next up was the vent line. I tied it into the vent at the tank. The hose ran over the rad, then down the rail with the fuel lines. After I go Windstar fans, I'm going to run the vent hose with the fuel lines from the FCC to the block, then down so it isn't over the radiator. Here's the cut to fit in a TEE. Measure twice, mark twice, cut somewhere else anyways. In back the shiny new filler hose from LMC.


After the cut. This shit is 1/2" but the outlet on the FCC is 5/16"




I used a 1/2" brass tee and snaked the hose over the frame and adapted it down to 5/16"



That's the end of the pics. I kinda stopped taking them when I was making the fuel lines.

The setup there is 3/8" off the riser from the fuel pump to a see thru Mr. Gasket filter and into a short piece of the Aeroquip -6 hose supplied by FiTech. This makes the low pressure supply connection. Barbed AN fittings are a pain in the goddamned ass. Lots of internet says to use wd-40, or whatever, but that's a load of shit. Boil the hose until it's too hot to touch, then jam it on as fast as you can.

From the FCC to the TBI is more -6 then a FiTech supplied filter, and another segment to connect to the driver's side front port on the TBI. You can choose any of 3 ports, and just plug the other two. A 5/32" vacuum hose from the FCC to the unported vacuum port on the TBI is run as well. This was another delay as I had to source a 5/32" vacuum TEE because I needed a port for the distributor as well.

PCV fed into the TBI and the vacuum hose from the transmission as well. I only used one of the large ports, but both smaller.

The rest of the wiring is 2 for fan/air con and Ign+ and Tach. Yeah that's masking tape on the Tach wire, I have no idea how I don't get stranded every time I drive this thing. I disconnected my tach for now, I have to find out of I can splice it and let it feed the TBI and the dash. I'll try to get some more pics when I go in to hook up the throttle cable.

 

[Hosalabad]

Video from the other thread:

 

[Hosalabad]

Next up, brackets:

I'll need the studs off of the lever to attach the cables. Top one for throttle is the ball style and straight down in the picture from it is the detent cable post. On the FiTech, I don't think either fit.



Here is the back of the 1902. The bracket for the throttle cable fastens down with the bolts that hold the carb on. These holes are used for the carb spacer, and the hump in the bracket doesn't cleary any of the back of the FiTech system so I'm going to have to look around and find out what kind of aftermarket bracket will fit.





So far it looks like the Holley 20-95 bracket:

https://www.amazon.com/Holley-20-95-Throttle-Cable-Bracket/dp/B00029JFF0

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh11/redlineSS/TVstuff/TVsetup.jpg

 

[6872xtc]

I watching!

 

[Hosalabad]

FiTech update - backfiring through the TBI and hard as hell to start.

The fun one: Absolutely will not start from the driver's seat. I hopped out and wanted to double check the base timing, and had the trigger hooked up to the starter with the timing light in my other hand and the truck starts perfectly. I tried it ten times, five cranking with the key, nothing, then five more on the trigger and it works every time. I'm stumped for now, not even dealing with it.

The bigger issue is the popping through the intake. I ran through all of the ignition timing tonight. Truck has a new coil, plugs and wires. Base timing is at 10 degrees. It starts to pop around 2200rpm.

It has to be bad valve train right? A bad intake valve, lifter (stuck, collapsed?), pushrod or the cam is worn flat, right?
Compression test showed 155 psi for 6 cylinders, 140 for one and 130 for another.

 

[ekajkrats]

Earlier you mentioned jb booger welds on the exhaust. Did you fix that? Only asking as any leaks can throw your O2 readings off. What's the fitech say when you rev it up to 2k rpms? Afr values and such?

Just picking at the low hanging fruit here ( aka things you've probably already thought of).

 

[Chevy305]

Sounds like you had this issue before but just blamed it on the carb. It's time to pull the valve covers and get to the root of the problem.

On your ignition, try jumping out the neutral safety switch and see if the key will then turn it over.

 

[skunked]

Can you describe where you found your power sources for the FiTech?

Any charging or battery issues?

Where are the chassis and engine grounds and what shape are they in? Any small issues with grounds are exaggerated when adding EFI as they rely heavily on them.

What ignition are you running? What shape is it in?

Have you verified fuel pressure when it begins to pop at 2K rpms?

 

[Big Ray]

Are you selling the carb?

 

[Hosalabad]

Earlier you mentioned jb booger welds on the exhaust. Did you fix that? Only asking as any leaks can throw your O2 readings off. What's the fitech say when you rev it up to 2k rpms? Afr values and such?

Just picking at the low hanging fruit here ( aka things you've probably already thought of).

Yeah I put a new exhaust in. I had to run one anyways because I have a clocked ORD doubler, so there wasn't room on the right side to get pipes to the back without going below the frame. AFR is really lean when cranking, 20:1, more on this below.

Sounds like you had this issue before but just blamed it on the carb. It's time to pull the valve covers and get to the root of the problem.

On your ignition, try jumping out the neutral safety switch and see if the key will then turn it over.

Yep, valve covers are coming off. I agree totally.

Can you describe where you found your power sources for the FiTech?

Any charging or battery issues?

Where are the chassis and engine grounds and what shape are they in? Any small issues with grounds are exaggerated when adding EFI as they rely heavily on them.

What ignition are you running? What shape is it in?

Have you verified fuel pressure when it begins to pop at 2K rpms?

Power for Fitech, the main lead is direct to battery, it grounds through it's connection to the engine. IGN source from fuse panel. I shaped up the plug wires for the wire from the FiTech that connect to the Tach signal to minimize crosstalk. After talking to FiTech I also ran a ground from the TBI to the battery, in the event that it was struggling there.

Alt puts out 14.4 Battery is fairly new. Grounds are good, I even ran a new 2 gauge from the alternator bracket to the battery.

Ignition is stock HEI. I put in a new coil, and plug wires so far. Fuel pressure stays at 58psi.

Are you selling the carb?

Not yet, I'm waiting to see where I get with the valve covers.

So here is the current status. I'm pulling valve covers so I can check for valvetrain issues. I have a near fix on the starting, it's really weird.

The truck just WON'T start with the key right? I got out to use the timing light while it was being cranked to see if I had smacked the distributor or something. Key was on, and I have a remote trigger for the starter. It STARTS PERFECTLY and repeatably. Back in the driver's seat, it will start off the key as well, as long as you don't try to crank for too long. You just have to blip it.

Thanks everyone for the input. I love this place.

 

[skunked]

sounds like your ignition switch is taking a shit. That could be causing issues for your switched 12v to the fitech as well.

Good on the grounds.....

 

[Fordum]

Don't forget the starter switch has two outputs. (actually three, but one does not count here). The ign on terminal, which is hot when you turn the key to "on".
Then there is the "start" position.
Some of the items that are on in the "on" position are not on in "start". For instance, the radio, fan, compressor, things like that are powered from the "on" output, not the "start".
That keeps the compressor from loading down the starter, and keeps voltage spikes from possibly damaging the radio.
You Must have the ignition stuff hooked to the start output. Sounds like you do not.
Try disconnecting only the starter solenoid trigger wire (purple??), measure the power to the distributor, with the switch in run, then with someone holding the key in start.
Bet you lose power in start.

 

[Hosalabad]

Don't forget the starter switch has two outputs. (actually three, but one does not count here). The ign on terminal, which is hot when you turn the key to "on".
Then there is the "start" position.
Some of the items that are on in the "on" position are not on in "start". For instance, the radio, fan, compressor, things like that are powered from the "on" output, not the "start".
That keeps the compressor from loading down the starter, and keeps voltage spikes from possibly damaging the radio.
You Must have the ignition stuff hooked to the start output. Sounds like you do not.
Try disconnecting only the starter solenoid trigger wire (purple??), measure the power to the distributor, with the switch in run, then with someone holding the key in start.
Bet you lose power in start.

Interesting, I'll add it to the list, thanks.

Edit: The more I think about this, the more it fits. And that sucks because I'm at work in Atlanta or I'd run out there right now and check it. =(

 

[Fordum]

Looking at a schematic, it looks like you may be using Ign-3 or Acc for your power source.
Only Ign-1 has power in start.
Hope the schematic helps.

 

[Hosalabad]

Thanks @Fordum I'm making a note on this and I appreciate you linking the schematic.

Right now I dug into the popping through the TBI. I had my wife do a shitty job of recording the rockers while I turned the motor by hand and found a few valves that were really lazy. Tonight I pulled drivers side:


1 and 5 had lazy exhaust valves, they barely moved and that matches whatever a white exhaust valve is, never seen it online before. Three plugs were solid black, one was fairly clean, the clean one corresponded to a lazy intake valve. I left the notes in the shop, I'll have to grab it tomorrow to see which was which.

That spread bore intake is AWESOME, there is a bolt on the passenger side of the intake near cyl 6 that you can only get about 15 degrees of rotation on.

Passenger side showed 2-3 more lazy exhaust valves as well. The driver's lifters didn't look too bad, but 2 of them were dished. 2-3 more of them were fairly flat but pitted.

The whole intake looked like shit, shit everywhere, mice, oil, coolant. Thermostat looked rusted to hell, when the heater core hose drained out, oh god awful. The lower bolts in the corners of the head I had to scrape clean to even get a socket around the lower half. Gaskets? **** off gaskets. There was some RTV on the front of the intake, none on the back, and nothing between the intake and the heads.

EGR? Caked shut.

Saw my dad today before I opened up the motor. He said to set it on fire and go buy a Mustang. I got a good laugh out of that. It's like he can read my mind.

 

[sweetk30]

lazy valves ? sounds like a flat cam as in flat lobes and the valves don't have any real action .

 

[Fordum]

I'm wondering if the lazy valves are due to the lifters on those not being pumped up. I have seen different amounts of lift on engines with high mileage that had been sitting for a while and were being turned by hand.
After they had run a couple of minutes, all the valves were the same when turned by hand.

The white valves are often coolant leaks. As for the droppings, it is a mouse motor after all.....

 

[skunked]

how do the cylinder walls look? If they're decent it might be best to buy a cam/lifter kit, have the heads freshened up and put a new manifold on it.

 

[Russell]

A crate engine would be your best value now. I'd buy a bone stock TBI crate engine and drop it in and be done with it. You'll spend more money fixing that bad engine you've got right now.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/nal-12568758

These crate engines are brand new from GM and carry a 3 year 100k mile warranty as well, btw! Impossible to rebuild an old one for the same price.

 

[Hosalabad]

how do the cylinder walls look? If they're decent it might be best to buy a cam/lifter kit, have the heads freshened up and put a new manifold on it.

They look OK, I can still see the cross hatching. I went ahead and had my local shop do a valve job and clean them up. If any of you guys are near Athens, GA, Carroll Machine Shop in Athens. Everyone there is super nice and as far as I know the work they do is great.


They replaced two rocker studs, did a valve job and shot some paint on the outside.

Big news though is that I finally got back to the shop and pulled the cam. Whoever obscured the oil pan bolts with the starter is on my shitlist.

First up is the Timing chain. Is this too loose?

Found a broken tooth on the cam sprocket, looks like they are plastic over little metal nubs, thanks GM.

Then the cam, the best part of pulling it was not knowing how the fuel pump was driven. I totally hosed myself.

Anyhow, front two lobes:

So next up is a new cam and lifters, and I guess timing, I assume that's too much play but I'm going off of TV and Magazines that never cover existing equipment, just how to install new stuff.