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Flat towing my K5

Atl-atl

Atl-atl

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So there is a ton of conflicting info on the internet(no surprise there) about flat towing. Im looking to flat tow my K5 behind my Class C. I live in the mountains and will be driving it up and down mountains and twisty roads. My Class C weighs ~11,000 lbs and has enormous 8 piston SSBC brakes up front, it is also UJoint 4x4 converted. Its a Furd gas V10 so I know Ill be going slowly uphill. I recently towed a trailer with a camper on it that in total probably weighed 3-4000 lbs up and over the continental divide via the Eisenhower Tunnel with no issue holding 50mph so I think power wise Ill be fine. Not sure what my K5 with a Four Wheel Camper weighs but Im hoping under 6000 lbs. Im going to try to weigh it this week. Ive got a Roadmaster Flacon 2 tow bar. Ill probably buy a braking system for the Blazer, such as the Brake Buddy.

Anyway my real concern is whether I need to remove the rear driveshaft. Ive got an NV4500 and NP241c with an ORD slip yoke eliminator and a JB Custom Fab cable shifter. Any reason I cant just run neutral in both and unlock my front hubs without removing the driveshaft? I know I know, removing the rear shaft takes 10 minutes and its free insurance. Im just curious what people on here have to say.

I came across this post here on CK5 where @Blazooki talks about his friend that was flat towing a truck with a 241 and the t-case "accidentally went into 4lo" and blew up. If the t-case is literally in neutral and nothing is moving, how could that possibly happen? Sounds to me like they thought it was in neutral or forgot to put it in neutral and it wasnt.
 
I'm not very familiar with the 241's but they don't have an oil pump, do they? I was thinking internal oil pumps came in later models. If there's no pump then lubrication likely happened via chain splash which would not happen if it's in neutral, right?
 
nvrenuf said:
I'm not very familiar with the 241's but they don't have an oil pump, do they? I was thinking internal oil pumps came in later models. If there's no pump then lubrication likely happened via chain splash which would not happen if it's in neutral, right?
Click to expand...
They do have a pump but if nothing is spinning(assuming neutral is true neutral) does it need to be lubricated?

I just came across this text posted on another forum that appears to be from GM but I cant find the original text. It appears they claim the 241 is safe to flat tow in neutral without pulling the driveshafts.

Trucks -

Four Wheel Drive And All Wheel Drive

"dinghy" Towing Is Permitted On Four Wheel Drive Trucks Only When Equipped With: - T Trucks Equipped With A New Process 231 Transfer Case (rpo Np2) - K Trucks Equipped With A New Process 241 Transfer Case(rpo Np2) - K Trucks Equipped With A Borg-warner 1370/4401/4470 Transfer Case, And The Transfer Case Is Placed In The Neutral Position. - K Trucks Equipped With A New Process 246 Transfer Case (rpo Np8)

In Order To Determine The Transfer Case Model, Locate The Identification Tag. This Tag Attaches To The Rear Case Half And Provides The Transfer Case Model Number (figures 1 And 2). Only Vehicles Equipped With New Process 231/241/246 Or Borg-warner 1370/4401/4470 Model Transfer Cases Can Be Dinghy Towed With The Transfer Case In Neutral.

Important: The Following All Wheel Drive And Four Wheel Drive Vehicles Should Not Be Dinghy Towed Unless The Propeller Shafts Are First Removed.

- K Trucks Equipped With The Optional Electric Shift Transfer Case, New Process 243 (rpo Np1) (no Neutral) - T Trucks Equipped With The Optional Electric Shift Transfer Case, New Process 233 (rpo Np1) (no Neutral) - Syclone, Typhoon, L Van And Bravada Which Are Equipped With The Borg-warner 4472 Transfer Case (no Neutral) And The Nvg136 Transfer Case - T Trucks Equipped With The New Process 207 Transfer Case (no Oil Pump) - K Trucks Equipped With The New Process 208 Transfer Case (no Oil Pump)

The Transfer Cases In These All Wheel Drive Or Four Wheel Drive Vehicles Either Have No Neutral Position Or Internal Oil Pump To Provide Lubrication While Being Towed. To Properly Tow These Vehicles, The Vehicle Should Be Placed On A Platform Trailer With All Four Tires Off The Ground. Towing With All Four Tires On The Ground Should Be Avoided. In Rare Cases When Towing With All Four Tires On The Ground Is Unavoidable, Both Front And Rear Propeller Shafts Must Be Removed In Order To Prevent Damage To The Transfer Case And/or Transmission. Follow The Applicable Service Manual Removal/installation Procedure As Front And Rear Propeller Shafts Are Matched To Attaching Components At Assembly.

TOWING PROCEDURE

THE CORRECT DINGHY TOWING PROCEDURE THAT ALL CUSTOMERS SHOULD FOLLOW IS GIVEN BELOW.

NOTICE: EXTRA CARE SHOULD BE USED WHENEVER TOWING ANOTHER VEHICLE. THE TOWING VEHICLE'S GCWR SHOULD NOT BE EXCEEDED BY ADDING THE WEIGHT OF THE DINGHY TOWED VEHICLE OR VEHICLE DAMAGE MAY RESULT.

1. FIRMLY SET THE PARKING BRAKE.

2. PLACE THE AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION IN "P" (PARK) OR THE MANUAL TRANSMISSION IN THE LOWEST GEAR (1ST).

3. SECURELY ATTACH THE VEHICLE BEING TOWED TO THE TOW VEHICLE.

4. IF EQUIPPED, PLACE THE TRANSFER CASE SHIFT LEVER IN "N" (NEUTRAL).

CAUTION:
SHIFTING THE TRANSFER CASE TO NEUTRAL CAN CAUSE THE VEHICLE TO ROLL, EVEN IF THE TRANSMISSION IS IN PARK (AUTOMATIC) OR 1ST GEAR (MANUAL), AND MAY CAUSE PERSONAL INJURY.

5. RELEASE THE PARKING BRAKE ONLY AFTER THE VEHICLE BEING TOWED IS FIRMLY ATTACHED TO THE TOW VEHICLE.

6. INSERT THE KEY INTO THE IGNITION SWITCH AND TURN THE KEY ONE NOTCH FORWARD OF THE LOCK POSITION. THIS PLACES THE KEY INTO THE OFF POSITION, WHICH UNLOCKS THE STEERING COLUMN WHILE PREVENTING BATTERY DRAIN. UNLOCKING THE STEERING COLUMN WILL ALLOW FOR PROPER MOVEMENT OF THE FRONT WHEELS AND TIRES DURING TOWING.
 
You (should) be under or around 6k. Not sure what those campers weigh, or what you have packed in it.
My K5 with one tons and 40’s and lots of steel tubing is 6440 with NO camping gear and a half tank of gas.
 
I have the 241 service manual pages posted in an album here and after checking there is an oil pump and it's on the input shaft with a pick up tubing reaching down into the belly. I'm no flat tow guy but it looks like all the right parts are there assuming they spin in neutral.

ck5.com

1991 V series NP241 manual

ck5.com ck5.com
 
nvrenuf said:
I have the 241 service manual pages posted in an album here and after checking there is an oil pump and it's on the input shaft with a pick up tubing reaching down into the belly. I'm no flat tow guy but it looks like all the right parts are there assuming they spin in neutral.
Click to expand...
The pump is on the output shaft, which is what you want for flat-towing. Having the SYE really makes pulling the driveshaft easier. With the slip yoke you're going to lose some fluid every time and you need some kind of plug, so that's a lot more of a hassle.

What about some kind of lock that holds the shift shaft in the N detent?
 
Here is a quote from the CUCV manual. I am pretty sure the civy owners manual says the same, with the exception of disconnecting the front shaft.

o CUCV Series trucks may be towed on all four wheels with a tow bar, at speeds less than 35 mph (56 kph), for distances up to 50 miles (80 km), provided there is no damage to power train and steering is operable.
l For distances over 5O miles, hava organizational maintenance disconnect rear propshaft at rear axle carrier and front propshaft at front axle carrier, and secure in a safe position.

Just pull the rear driveshaft for peace of mind.
 
Blue85 said:
The pump is on the output shaft, which is what you want for flat-towing. Having the SYE really makes pulling the driveshaft easier. With the slip yoke you're going to lose some fluid every time and you need some kind of plug, so that's a lot more of a hassle.

What about some kind of lock that holds the shift shaft in the N detent?
Click to expand...
You ever see that picture of the jeep that was flat towing and the t-case popped back into gear going down the highway? Looks like a bomb went off!
 
It’s 4 bolts to pull the shaft from the axle. Like the others said ratchet strap it up to the frame and pull. I just don’t feel comfy even if the 241 is rated for it. It’s just too easy to reach and take off to not do it.

My rig with the camper, loaded for a week on the road/trail comes in at 7400 with me in it. Figure 7100 without me (imma big boi) so that’s going to be heavier than yours by a couple hundred pounds. But that poor v10 is going to hate you for it.

Going downhill would be the worry for me, big brakes or not. Most flat tow setups of a certain size/weight might require a supplemental brake system to allow the towed vehicle to aid in braking. Not sure of the legalities in your state if it’s a requirement or not but it might be worth checking. Even if it’s not a legal requirement it’s probably smart to have if you were going to town it a lot and do so in a hilly/mountain type area. That’s a lot of beef pushing the rv downhill without any extra braking like a trailer would have at least.

First world problems… how can I tow one camper with my other camper???:haha:
 
I'm with the others. Without the shift lever being locked in neutral (which it's not) I wouldn't risk it. As I recall neutral isn't even up against the "step" in the shifter plate, so easily locking it in place would be tougher. It's back to 4 hi, over, then back until you feel neutral, but before hitting low?

It's clear that they can randomly "fall" into gear, not a chance I'd take.
 
Fastereddie said:
You need to keep the transmission in gear.
Only put the t-case in neutral. And make sure hubs are unlocked.
But if it were me going that far, id lose the shaft.
Click to expand...
If I have the front hubs unlocked and the rear shaft removed, what difference does it make if the trans is in gear?
 
Just to be clear, we're not talking about automatic hubs, right?
 
Atl-atl said:
If I have the front hubs unlocked and the rear shaft removed, what difference does it make if the trans is in gear?
Click to expand...
At that point it doesn’t. As long as they aren’t auto lockers like blue is questioning.
 
Atl-atl said:
If I have the front hubs unlocked and the rear shaft removed, what difference does it make if the trans is in gear?
Click to expand...
At that point it shouldn’t. But if the rear shaft is connected, even with the t-case in neutral, the drag can spin the trans from the output side if it’s in neutral and that’s no bueno. If that happens the countershaft won’t be spinning, and therefore not slinging oil to lube it.
 
Blue85 said:
Just to be clear, we're not talking about automatic hubs, right?
Click to expand...
Nope, Ive got Warn manual hubs.
Fastereddie said:
At that point it shouldn’t. But if the rear shaft is connected, even with the t-case in neutral, the drag can spin the trans from the output side if it’s in neutral and that’s no bueno. If that happens the countershaft won’t be spinning, and therefore not slinging oil to lube it.
Click to expand...
I see, thanks for the info.
 
Just adding another vote of confidence for a limited distance of travel and speed if the shaft is not removed
The shop that I cut my teeth on always recommend removing the shaft on the 208,241 and BW 4400 series cases because the oil pickup tubes on all of them are prone to fail.
 
Another vote to pull rear shaft. Simple peace of mind and if you pull both ends,( SYE doesn't allow fluid loss, right?) you can use the truck for errands en route by locking front hubs. just remember to unlock when hooking back up to tow. And handy if you get blocked in somewhere and can't pull ahead while hooked up.
 
flatland said:
Another vote to pull rear shaft. Simple peace of mind and if you pull both ends,( SYE doesn't allow fluid loss, right?) you can use the truck for errands en route by locking front hubs. just remember to unlock when hooking back up to tow. And handy if you get blocked in somewhere and can't pull ahead while hooked up.
Click to expand...
Im leaning towards just removing the rear shaft completely since I can with the SYE. And was figuring Id be able to unhook from the RV and park the Blazer by locking the hubs, putting it in 4hi and driving it in FWD like you said haha.
 
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