Flywheel weight v/s diameter 168/197 tooth ?

[tarussell]

Fellas, I need some mathematical help concerning the effects favoring inertia in regards to weight v/s diameter on different flywheels that I have.
Please speak in basic lingo as I am more grease monkey than intellect - after all it took me three years to get a two year degree thirty-five plus years ago ( apparently you’re supposed to show up to all the classes on a regular basis….).

I need to get an idea of how effective each flywheel is compared to each other - as in assigning a numerical value to the inertia/kinetic energy of the mass of each type.

I am working with a 168 tooth 14” overall diameter flywheel that is NOT scalloped on the back side and weighs in at 54lbs. ( compared to 37lbs. for a normal truck type flywheel that is scalloped on the back side ) - this came off of a counter rotating marine 454 that I got years ago and had balanced.

After a lot of thought on how happy I was to have a genuinely heavy flywheel for helping out on low end grunt I decided to get a larger flywheel ( and related parts ) from a C-60 Top-Kick 427-TD that is a 197 tooth and 17.5” diameter but it only weighs in at 47lbs.
I am hoping that the larger diameter, yet lesser weight, of the 197 tooth flywheel , compared to the ultra heavy 168 tooth flywheel , will have a greater inertia effect but I need to measure this somehow.

I’m getting lost in the equations trying to assign a value to what I am seeking and understanding a comparison between just how effective one is compared to the other ( RADIUS 1/2 MR^2 ) is all that I have come up with but I still don’t understand what the equation gives me???
Is it a measure of moment of movement or some description of kinetic energy that resists changes - please help if ya can; I need some basic talk understanding so I can see how effective the larger flywheel is over the smaller, yet heavier, flywheel.
Pics are below for reference - the bottom two pics are the flywheels in question.

Thanks, Tom

 

[CT-BLAZER]

I'm comfortable saying that a GM big block is an external balanced engine......
L
The original Fly Wheel was , or was supposed to be balanced with all the rotating parts.

Replacing a flywheel with out balancing the whole assembly is a disaster in the making

 

[tarussell]

I'm comfortable saying that a GM big block is an external balanced engine......
L
The original Fly Wheel was , or was supposed to be balanced with all the rotating parts.

Replacing a flywheel with out balancing the whole assembly is a disaster in the making

454’s are external but 427’s and such are internal.
But, I have had the flywheel machined and balanced to the rest of the rotating assembly - note the holes on the back side of the solid 168 tooth flywheel.
That being said, I now have to take the complete rotating assembly back and have the larger flywheel balanced.
Drilling and Mallory metal does wonders.

 

[eodcoduto]

Is there a google formula for inertia that would work?

 

[tarussell]

Is there a google formula for inertia that would work?

That’s what I am hoping to find out and break it down to layman’s terminology - just need some of y’all really smart folks to get down on a barbarian level and spell it out…

 

[eodcoduto]

I’ll ask the nerds at work tomorrow, and by nerds they are no sh@t rocket scientists. The diameters and weights are fairly close in ratio. .37 ratio on the 17” and .26 on the 14”, maybe 5ftlbs of torque. Not enough to spend extra money on.

 

[eodcoduto]

This is why I chose to get shot at instead of math.

https://www.york.cuny.edu/academics/departments/earth-and-physical-sciences/physics-lab-manuals/physics-i/lab-8/@@download/file/08-Flywheel.pdf

 

[tarussell]

I’ll ask the nerds at work tomorrow, and by nerds they are no sh@t rocket scientists. The diameters and weights are fairly close in ratio. .37 ratio on the 17” and .26 on the 14”, maybe 5ftlbs of torque. Not enough to spend extra money on.

Appreciate that !

If it helps for the guru-nerds I will also be able to use a 14” clutch and pressure plate ( not for the extra clamping force ) that will add to the weight being further away from the center mass compared to the standard 12” clutch set up on the smaller flywheel.

 

[tarussell]

This is why I chose to get shot at instead of math.

https://www.york.cuny.edu/academics/departments/earth-and-physical-sciences/physics-lab-manuals/physics-i/lab-8/@@download/file/08-Flywheel.pdf

It might just be me but I can’t get that link to open up ?

 

[tarussell]

Been talking with CT-BLAZER on DM’s and he had a few good questions on how the larger flywheel will fit - so I thought I’d put a pic up of a C-60 adapter that allows the use of the larger flywheel on a standard Chevy bell bolt pattern.
Gotta use a different bell housing and a larger SM-465 1-1/2” 10-spline input shaft and larger T.O.B. collar and matching cast iron nosed starter but it all matches up nicely.

 

[eodcoduto]

Thats an SAE adapter.

 

[tarussell]

Actually that one is different from the SAE adapters - note it’s not a round uniform pattern.

It’s a bell pattern GM made specifically for their Chevy motors to use the larger flywheel.
For example it’s much smaller than an SAE#3 pattern.
On the trans side of the bell it has a dual bolt pattern for the Clark 5-speeds and the standard GM Muncie four bolt pattern with the 5-1/8” index bore diameter.

 

[eodcoduto]

The smart guys have spoken.

The 17.5” flywheel at 4000rpm has 62.2 watt hours of energy. 10,504 J/kg specific energy.

The 14” flywheel at 4000rpm has 45.74 Wh and 6,723 J/kg

 

[eodcoduto]

Actually that one is different from the SAE adapters - note it’s not a round uniform pattern.

It’s a bell pattern GM made specifically for their Chevy motors to use the larger flywheel.
For example it’s much smaller than an SAE#3 pattern.
On the trans side of the bell it has a dual bolt pattern for the Clark 5-speeds and the standard GM Muncie four bolt pattern with the 5-1/8” index bore diameter.

View attachment 461813

View attachment 461814

Thats what my C60 uses, I thought it was an SAE bellhousing adapter. 366 and a ch465.

 

[nvrenuf]

Damn that flywheel is BIG.

@tarussell I can't wait for you to start a build thread and post more pics of these crazy parts.

 

[tarussell]

The smart guys have spoken.

The 17.5” flywheel at 4000rpm has 62.2 watt hours of energy. 10,504 J/kg specific energy.

The 14” flywheel at 4000rpm has 45.74 Wh and 6,723 J/kg

Appreciate ya gett’n da’ Gurus to use the ole slide ruler for me !!

It appears that the larger diameter wheel “outweighs” the smaller but heavier wheel. I guess leverage is the key factor.

 

[tarussell]

Thats what my C60 uses, I thought it was an SAE bellhousing adapter. 366 and a ch465.

Years ago when I first started gathering parts I thought that it was an SAE pattern as well and even got a #3 bell but found out they were a different breed.
I ended up getting two of these specific bell housings just in case since they are less common. One is from a 366/465 and the other from a 427/CLARK 5-speed combo ( the trans side has a dual pattern).

 

[tarussell]

Damn that flywheel is BIG.

@tarussell I can't wait for you to start a build thread and post more pics of these crazy parts.

I kind of figured that most folks would not be that interested in a old school in-line six cylinder 292 build - it ain’t like it’s a fire breath’n big block like we use to run….
Even you are having a little trouble with me taking the 454 out - others may not be so understanding and I’ll be kick’d off of CK5 for lack of cool points!?!?

 

[b454rat]

A machine shop should be able to balance the new flywheel without the rotating assembly. Can't remember how, but they can lol..

 

[nvrenuf]

@tarussell some folks might initially skim past a 6 cyl build... that is, until they learn that the crazy big, medium duty 454 flywheel is only one of the many REALLY cool parts on/in that 292. It's definitely not some old refreshed pawpaw 6 cyl!

I'm waiting on the build thread... :tapping foot: